CTI K445

[Tim51]

Hi All
I've just inherited a CTI K445, date stamped 2007. It's still completely sealed in its poly packet and I'm au fait with the motor's provenance, so I'm pretty comfortable with flying it and looking forward to doing so as soon as feasible. However, since I've only been involved in HPR since 2015, and I've never flown a motor this old, I'd be grateful for any tips/hints/observations from anyone who is familiar with Pro 54s of this vintage.
Thanks,

 

[Cameron Anderson]

Wow, I've never flown one that old but 5 years old is utterly common, and 10 doesn't cause too many heads to turn either, if properly cared for. I flew a 10 year old AMW K reload last year with zero issues. I flew a 12 year old Aerotech i reload last year too, also zero issues.
APCP motors have a great shelf life. I've never flown a CTI that old but you have nothing to worry about.

 

[mikec]

Should be fine; if anything maybe more reliable than newer product, given some of their production problems.

 

[Tim51]

Should be fine; if anything maybe more reliable than newer product, given some of their production problems.

Thanks. I'll epoxy the forward closure as I do with the newer 4G loads.

 

[mikec]

Can't hurt. The Classic motors don't use a phenolic liner IIRC though, and the plastic-coated paper may not take epoxy that great. Classic is not a very stress propellant so the bonding may not be all that important.

 

[Tim51]

Can't hurt. The Classic motors don't use a phenolic liner IIRC though, and the plastic-coated paper may not take epoxy that great. Classic is not a very stress propellant so the bonding may not be all that important.

Thanks for the tip - good to know.

 

[Tim51]

Finally got around to inspecting this 13 year old motor this evening. When I opened the sealed pink plastic sock and removed the motor, the nozzle was loose. Some sort of residual flaky adhesive (?) was visible that had long since perished:
Does this matter ? (I've noticed on Pro 54s the nozzle sometimes detaches easily, sometimes not).

 

[mbeels]

The only issue I had with an old Cessaroni reload (38mm, I think it was a 2011 reload?) was the ematch, it was dry and crumbly and didn't work. But with a new ematch the motor was fine.

 

[crossfire]

Scrape t hu e crud off. Use a little epoxy and fly it.

 

[Tim51]

Scrape t hu e crud off. Use a little epoxy and fly it.

Thanks will seal the nozzle closure back on to the phenolic with epoxy as you suggest. Curious as to what the crud was originally...anyone know what CTI uses / used back then ?

 

[crossfire]

Thanks will seal the nozzle closure back on to the phenolic with epoxy as you suggest. Curious as to what the crud was originally...anyone know what CTI uses / used back then ?

Dosent really look like the grain is breaking down. It looks normal.

 

[crossfire]

Thanks will seal the nozzle closure back on to the phenolic with epoxy as you suggest. Curious as to what the crud was originally...anyone know what CTI uses / used back then ?

That's not uncommon for the nozzle or forward clouser to be loose.

 

[Tim51]

Dosent really look like the grain is breaking down. It looks normal.

Yeah the grain looks fine. The surface is smooth and the core has clean sharp edge to it. The pink bag was still completely sealed.

That's not uncommon for the nozzle or forward clouser to be loose.

Interesting - are some glued and some not? Is it necessary then to seal it with epoxy?

 

[tim cubbedge]

Interesting - are some glued and some not? Is it necessary then to seal it with epoxy?

I have yet to see any CTI nozzle or forward closure glued to liner from factory but maybe they did with your vintage motor.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

No problem. Many loads did not have the nozzle bonded in. I've flown 20 year old CTI reloads. I would remove the BP and use electronic ejection. Remove the loose crud and make sure the nozzle fits. The case will hold the parts together.

 

[mikec]

Seems like this motor predates the glossy plastic/paper liners more recent Classic loads use. I'd epoxy the nozzle back on although I don't think it will matter. Many of them are glued in now.

 

[Tim51]

Seems like this motor predates the glossy plastic/paper liners more recent Classic loads use. I'd epoxy the nozzle back on although I don't think it will matter. Many of them are glued in now.

Thanks - yes this stuff looks and feels similar to PML phenolic, but without spirals.

 

[Tim51]

No problem. Many loads did not have the nozzle bonded in. I've flown 20 year old CTI reloads. I would remove the BP and use electronic ejection. Remove the loose crud and make sure the nozzle fits. The case will hold the parts together.

No problem. Many loads did not have the nozzle bonded in. I've flown 20 year old CTI reloads. I would remove the BP and use electronic ejection. Remove the loose crud and make sure the nozzle fits. The case will hold the parts together.

Thanks that's good to know. The plan was to remove the BP anyway, as you suggest. Now I've brushed away the crud the nozzle seats well.

 

[Tim51]

I have yet to see any CTI nozzle or forward closure glued to liner from factory but maybe they did with your vintage motor.

Thanks. In my experience some nozzles seem to be so tightly seated that they could be glued, so I've always assumed they are, and not messed with it. I tend to keep spent nozzles from particularly memorable flights or propellants new to me as souvenirs and I sometimes find traces of some kind of bonding between the liner and the nozzle, which doesn't always come away easily after flight. By contrast the forward closure is always loose.

 

[Nytrunner]

Up to you ultimately. I think the epoxy is cheap insurance. If the motor was going to work perfectly anyway, i only lost five minutes of prep time by epoxying the closure. If the liner/closure interface is somehow compromised, I'll sure kick myself if I skipped the epoxy.

 

[Tim51]

Up to you ultimately. I think the epoxy is cheap insurance. If the motor was going to work perfectly anyway, i only lost five minutes of prep time by epoxying the closure. If the liner/closure interface is somehow compromised, I'll sure kick myself if I skipped the epoxy.

Yep - my thinking too. All sorted now. Hopefully will fly it towards end of next month or September.