3D Printing CR10s Troubleshooting

[Aeva]

I've been banging my head against the wall for this one. I replaced the entire hot end assembly a little bit back and got two prints out of my printer before it decided to constantly throw heating errors. During the PID test or as long as the bed is OFF, it will get the extruder's hotend to temperature. However, when I try and print a piece, and it's maintaining the temperature of the bed, the hotend falls short by about 10°C when heating, and wiggles until the printer reaches the temperature stabilization timeout.

Things I've done:
- (Update) Thermistor screw was pretty tight on the hot end from factory. Loosening it didn't fix it, but it's possible the thermistor was broken because of over-tightening at the factory.
- Checked my board, it's a v2.1 which has a 220uF capacitor. This problem is sometimes a symptom on older boards with an underrated capacitor; so that's not the problem here.
- Brand new PSU. It's got a little more wattage the original, but better parts than the cheap chinese crap that comes with the cr10s by default.
- Hotend is virtually new. I have NOT checked if I needed to tighten screws on the thermoresistor and will try that tonight. It does have the silicon sock and what not.
- Firmware is up to date with the Marlin LTS release, PID tuned, and even given a little more wiggle room for the parameters that determine an extruder heating failure... didn't change the result.
- I checked the ambient temperature as a point of issue: I placed a space heater next to my printer, got it up to 30+°C ambient temperature on both the bed and hotend, and then attempted a print. It still fails with a heating failure.
- I've checked and my PSU and hotend are both 12v. I made sure to find drop in replacements for my parts.

The suspects:
- (most likely) The hotend thermistor; might be a flawed product out of the box, or just needs some adjustments to the screws holding it in. (Update) Narrowed it down to the thermistor, it was possibly over-tightened by the manufacturer and since I didn't loosen it out of the box, it may have gotten damaged.
- (unlikely) The board; just because it's not the flawed board doesn't mean it doesn't have something else wrong with it.
- (unlikely) The bed; honestly, the weird thing about this is that the bed causes the extruder to under heat. It's not impossible it's connected.
- Ambient temperature; maybe the coldness of winter and the fact my printer is close to an external wall is causing the temperature to drop more quickly and the heater elements to run more?

Trying my best not to ask on reddit... so any thoughts will be appreciated. Not really expecting much at this point... just would suck to lose the ability to make large prints. I'm seriously considering buying a more reliable printer...

 

[mike_bar]

[Snip]
- Hotend is virtually new. I have NOT checked if I needed to tighten screws on the thermoresistor and will try that tonight. It does have the silicon sock and what not.

[Snip]
The suspects:
- Ambient temperature; maybe the coldness of winter and the fact my printer is close to an external wall is causing the temperature to drop more quickly and the heater elements to run more?

General comments. (I don't own a CR-10)

Do not overtighten the screw retaining the thermistor, snug is fine. Overtightening can damage the thermistor.

Ambient temperature has a significant effect on print quality. Are you up north? My room temperature is a cool 70°F in Florida and I notice differences while printing.

The silicone sock should help moderate temperature of the heater block.

Good luck.

 

[NTP2]

Paging @cwbullet to the thread…

 

[Aeva]

General comments. (I don't own a CR-10)

Do not overtighten the screw retaining the thermistor, snug is fine. Overtightening can damage the thermistor.

Ambient temperature has a significant effect on print quality. Are you up north? My room temperature is a cool 70°F in Florida and I notice differences while printing.

The silicone sock should help moderate temperature of the heater block.

Good luck.

In Maryland, so relatively yes? by some standards no? It just has been consistently below freezing past few days. I did check if ambient temperature was the problem, and it still didn't work when being warmed by a space heater.

Thanks for the advice on the thermistor

 

[P_Carroll2525]

I have a CR10s Pro V2, do you have the tiny machine firmware? I also replace the the thermistor on mine to one that screws into the heat block. Cheap and much better temperature control than the original. You also might want to think about the 24V 50w heating cartridge vs the factory 40W. Temp stays rock solid. Of course the swiss micro all metal hot end works wonders as well.

https://gulfcoast-robotics.com/products/epcos-thermistor-upgrade-creality-ender-3-5-cr10-3d-printers
https://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-Cartridge-Compatible-Ultimaker-Extruder/dp/B086JM394F

 

[Bravo52]

I have a CR10s Pro V2, do you have the tiny machine firmware? I also replace the the thermistor on mine to one that screws into the heat block. Cheap and much better temperature control than the original. You also might want to think about the 24V 50w heating cartridge vs the factory 40W. Temp stays rock solid. Of course the swiss micro all metal hot end works wonders as well.

https://gulfcoast-robotics.com/products/epcos-thermistor-upgrade-creality-ender-3-5-cr10-3d-printers
https://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-Cartridge-Compatible-Ultimaker-Extruder/dp/B086JM394F

THIS! I'd start with the thermistor.

 

[cwbullet]

The suspects:
- The hotend; might be a flawed product out of the box, or just needs some adjustments to the screws holding it in.
- The board; just because it's not the flawed board doesn't mean it doesn't have something else wrong with it.
- The bed; honestly, the weird thing about this is that the bed causes the extruder to under heat. It's not impossible it's connected.
- Ambient temperature; maybe the coldness of winter and the fact my printer is close to an external wall is causing the temperature to drop more quickly and the heater elements to run more?

I think you might be on the right track. I quit using Creality printers for this very reason. They fail to work too often.

 

[Aeva]

I have a CR10s Pro V2, do you have the tiny machine firmware? I also replace the the thermistor on mine to one that screws into the heat block. Cheap and much better temperature control than the original. You also might want to think about the 24V 50w heating cartridge vs the factory 40W. Temp stays rock solid. Of course the swiss micro all metal hot end works wonders as well.

https://gulfcoast-robotics.com/products/epcos-thermistor-upgrade-creality-ender-3-5-cr10-3d-printers
https://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-Cartridge-Compatible-Ultimaker-Extruder/dp/B086JM394F

Marlin LTS 2.0.9.7. I don't think the firmware is the problem. I still haven't gotten around to checking the thermistor but it seems like the only plausible problem. Still weird because I bought an all-in-one replacement for the hotend/extruder from creality so you'd think it would work out of the box.

I did replace the PSU with a more reliable one that should be plenty powerful enough to get to temp. I considered upgrading the printer... but the cr10s has been a money sink for me lately and I don't want to break the bank just for it. I did buy a smaller more reliable printer. I am just bummed I won't be able to make my rockets as big without extra weight.

I think you might be on the right track. I quit using Creality printers for this very reason. They fail to work too often.

Ugh, I'm almost at that point. This thing is about 3.5 years old and this isn't the first major issue I've had with it.... just the first one to stump me lol.

 

[mike_bar]

Ugh, I'm almost at that point. This thing is about 3.5 years old and this isn't the first major issue I've had with it.... just the first one to stump me lol.

Bambu Lab seems to be shaking up the market. I'd look here if I were changing printers.

 

[Aeva]

Lol, that’s exactly what I ordered. I’m feeling good about that choice

 

[OverTheTop]

Check you have the right voltage heater in the hot end. We had someone do some maintenance and put a 12V heater on the Creality which was a 24V system. The control loop could not handle the fast ramp rates that the heater was able to drive, since it was being used at 2x nominal voltage.

 

[Aeva]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BDNF6HM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_detailshttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0109IMRPS?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
Heater is 12v and my PSU is 12v. I made sure to look for drop in replacements since I wasn't trying to upgrade. I had to double check the heater though, so good suggestion!

 

[CTimm]

I'm still a newbie but the UTube video by Chris Taylor walking one through disassembly and reassembly of the hot end was indispensable for fixing the inevitable "heat creep" temp problems that cropped up every two weeks or so.
Switch out the white PTFE with the Capricorn stuff & keep the filament nice and dry. The SUNLU dryer is nice, a bit noisy with the bearings
inside the case, and it needs a venting hole on the top side to let the moisture out.
Use Capricorn from the dryer to the printer.
I would also check the tiny cooling fans. It doesn't take much dust on the impellers to cut the air flow down, which can lead to heat regulation issues.
It worked for me on my CR-10.
Now to get the (2) Ender-3Pro's back chugging along
Meanwhile, the Bambu X1 is working great right out of the box.

 

[cwbullet]

I'm still a newbie but the UTube video by Chris Taylor walking one through disassembly and reassembly of the hot end was indispensable for fixing the inevitable "heat creep" temp problems that cropped up every two weeks or so.

Learning to disassemble to reassemble is key to keeping any printer ready.

Meanwhile, the Bambu X1 is working great right out of the box.

Yes and no. It works for most filaments. A few of us are finding some challenges. For example, I love ASA filament but I am finding some limitations with the BAMBUs printing it. Hopefully, I will just need to tweak the settings. Overall, it is a very nice printer but I have had some issues.

 

[CTimm]

Learning to disassemble to reassemble is key to keeping any printer ready.


Yes and no. It works for most filaments. A few of us are finding some challenges. For example, I love ASA filament but I am finding some limitations with the BAMBUs printing it. Hopefully, I will just need to tweak the settings. Overall, it is a very nice printer but I have had some issues.

I am using SUNLU brand with no issues (yet).
The BAMBU supplied filament really sticks to the bed so I set those aside for now.
I haven't had to use the "glue stick" or whatever that water soluble stuff is that they recommend (yet).
Really liking the spaghetti detection, filament unload and load, and the speed options.

 

[Aeva]

I am using SUNLU brand with no issues (yet).
The BAMBU supplied filament really sticks to the bed so I set those aside for now.
I haven't had to use the "glue stick" or whatever that water soluble stuff is that they recommend (yet).
Really liking the spaghetti detection, filament unload and load, and the speed options.

Any idea how well Overture PETG filaments do with bambu printers? They’re my go to brand and I have a few unopened spools.

 

[Aeva]

Do not overtighten the screw retaining the thermistor, snug is fine. Overtightening can damage the thermistor.

I think this may have happened. I went to check the screw finally, and it was pretty tight. That came tight from the factory. I tried loosening it, hoping the problem might be resolved with some luck... but it still failed.

Now I'm considering thermistor replacements.

 

[OverTheTop]

If it has been overtightened then the thermistor may have been damaged.

 

[Aeva]

So I replaced the termistor and it did not fix the issue. I also took some other advice and tightened the terminals where the board provides power to the hotend, also did not fix the issue.

At this point, I'm just gonna take the software solution and modify marlin to be more forgiving when doing temperature checks. I modified "inline bool check(const celsius_t curr)" in temperature.h so that it multiplies the desired target by 0.95. "return curr >= target * TARGET_MARGIN_FIX;" (where TARGET_MARGIN_FIX is the 0.95 as a #define). It got to temperature... I have no clue what is the point of failure hardware wise...

 

[Aeva]

Print started successfully with this modification. What a waste of my time and money to "fix" this... <.< all it took was modifying a line of code... fml

 

[P_Carroll2525]

Print started successfully with this modification. What a waste of my time and money to "fix" this... <.< all it took was modifying a line of code... fml

I know you are running marlin but check into the tiny machine firmware, it has been bulletproof for me.