Coronavirus: What questions do you have?

[cwbullet]

I would think it doesn't matter how well done the meat is if the server bringing it to you AFTER it was cooked gets their bugs/virus onto it.

It depends. You are more likely to infect a meal with hand-to-food contact and not aerosolized. All bets are off if you tick off the server and they spit on your meal. It takes a large viral load to infect via the GI tract.

 

[Cnorm]

What's the word on Ivermectin's effectiveness against Omicron?

 

[Marc_G]

Chuck: early read is that omicron is more infectious than Delta, but could that be an artifact of previous immunity from vaccines and infections not working to stop it among an "omicron naive population?"

 

[cwbullet]

Chuck: early read is that omicron is more infectious than Delta, but could that be an artifact of previous immunity from vaccines and infections not working to stop it among an "omicron naive population?"

The most recent research shows that Omicron is more infections in those that have a distant infection or immunization and those that have a recent one when your account for the timing of the "exposure". We will see if that statistic prediction holds true in real life as infections become more widespread. That being said, a more recent infection or immunization provider has superior protection.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

[NM]

 

[cwbullet]

I very concerned about the next couple of weeks. Many of the test operations have lines today for the first time in weeks.

 

[cwbullet]

What's the word on Ivermectin's effectiveness against Omicron?

Zero quality evidence it works to this day.

 

[Peartree]

I very concerned about the next couple of weeks. Many of the test operations have lines today for the first time in weeks.

Cleveland Clinic CEO (Cleveland) and President (Canton) have both said that the situation is now worse than at any time during the pandemic. And still, everything is open, almost no one is wearing masks in public, people are gathering in large groups for concerts, movies, Christmas parties, etc. so I don't see things getting better any time soon.

Oh, and Ohio National Guard troops (non-medical) have been activated and sent to beleaguered hospitals to fill in, or add to, for support staff.

 

[Marc_G]

Chuck,

I've got a question, let me start with the short version, then I'll add more detail for clarity about what I'm getting at.

Short version: So, my wife had the J&J one shot vaccine in early April, then the Moderna booster in Mid November. While it's probably too early for real data, I'm wondering based on your knowledge how her resistance to omicron is likely to be compared to a mRNA+booster (three shots) regimen. And, is there any reason to think folks like her might need a third shot anytime soon?

Longer ramblings:
Despite the different delivery methods between the adenovirus-based J&J versus mRNA-based Pfizer or Moderna shots, they largely do the same thing as far as I understand it: they coax the body into producing a bit of spike protein (the same one, among the three shots) over a period of hours to days, and the body then reacts to the spike protein and develops and immune response over a period of days to a month or so. The rate-over-time at which the body produces the spike protein and thus the various immune response components varies among the shots, based on nuances of the delivery mechanism. But, the data I've seen is that the two mRNA two-course regimens are broadly comparable in their effect, and the J&J single shot regimen produces less of a response, largely due to being a single shot regimen rather than due to the delivery mechanism. Again, because the body is complicated, nuances aren't trival; they actually have an impact at the end. So we see some statistically significant differences when we analyze immune components in cohorts of folks that have had different immunizations. But still, I'm working on an assumption that three mRNA shots over time likely gives a better immune response than one J&J shot plus one mRNA booster.
My wife works face to face with kids in a mental health setting, and televisits work poorly for what she does, and masks are impractical due to blocking so much nonverbal communication needed for her work, so she is "out there." I worry about her as her health is delicate.
Do you have any thoughts based on what we are hearing about omicron? The more immune response, the more effectiveness against the partially vaccine resistant omicron. So, since it seems to be a quantity play at the moment, I wonder about her getting a third shot sometime in the next month or two.

 

[ksaves2]

Ummm,

Just read an article in today's (12/21/21) Peoria Journal Star that after a 3rd injection of either Moderna or Pfizer vaccines looks like it leads to protection against omicron. If was specifically mentioned that a full dose booster of Moderna led to an 83 times increase in antibody levels able to fight omicron. It was said that Pfizer's testing show similar results with a 3rd dose of their vaccine. It specifically stated a "big jump in omicron-fighting antibodies". Nothing mentioned of J & J single injection vaccine.

It was mentioned a full dose 3rd vaccine shot can lead to "side effects". I can attest to that. I had global aches and felt like crap for 36 hours 8 hours after receiving my Moderna 3rd booster. I took it in stride as I'd rather feel bad for a number of hours than die of Covid-19. Might be a good idea to get the 3rd booster the day before one has a scheduled day off. Like Friday so one can recover on Saturday. (I'm retired)

I had a neighbor lady who is under immunosuppressive therapy for rheumatoid arthritis. She sometimes brings food over for me and my son. After her second Moderna she said, "I didn't feel anything."

I told her I just had a few minor aches but nothing big.
A few weeks after another mass immunization with the 3rd Moderna shot, Barb came over with food and I told her I was "wiped out" for 36 hours. A big grin came over her face and said she had global aches and fatigue for 24 hours but was better thereafter. I suspect that means our immune systems kicked into overdrive, gave us a few side effects and produced an antibody response. I have no scientific proof of this of course but the first two injections led to a minimum physical response and the 3rd one was a big whammy.

Although........ It is hard to explain how I've never had any physical response to any past routine vaccines.

On one hand that could be explained since the Covid-19 vaccines were developed so fast, the components might elicit an aggressive response due to the concentrations used. That in turn can perhaps lead to a physical response not seen with prior vaccines. You know, polio, tetanus shots, DPT shots, flu shots etc. had the luxury for long term testing and fine tuning their regimens and concentrations before release.

Like I said, I'd rather be out of commission for a day than die of Covid-19 complications.

If the above preliminary results holds out, we might be able to weather omicron too.

Kurt Savegnago

 

[boatgeek]

I have a question about dominant strains. I can see how a more infectious strain can become the one with the highest percentage of cases (delta then, omicron now), but I'm having trouble seeing how a less dominant strain dies out. I started down the line with this thought experiment...

* Assume an arbitrary population of 5-10 million. Some are vaccinated, some aren't; some people have had the virus already and some haven't. This is roughly the size of Washington State, and the case numbers below are reasonably representative of WA.
* The population is large enough and the dominant variant has been circulating long enough that it's settled into a pretty predictable pattern of about 1000 new infections per day. This is basically where the US was in April and November 2021, though at a higher daily case rate because of a higher population.
* The new kid shows up, and due to less vaccination resistance, less prior infection resistance, and more infectivity, it rapidly reaches 5000 new cases per day in our hypothetical population.

The new variant now has 83% of new infections. But given relatively steady state, wouldn't the old variant still keep on trucking with 1000 new cases/day? You wouldn't get to herd immunity for a year or two at least with that infection rate. Are there other mechanisms that would reduce the old variant's case counts?

 

[tab28682]

I was a little tardy (two months after eligible) getting my Moderna booster, but did get it this past week.

I planned for no activity the following day, but ended up having very minor effects. Slightly sore arm, very minor joint aches and a tiny bit of fatigue. Felt well enough to spend most of the day working on model projects. Back to 100% the next day.

I had what I would call moderate side effects after the second shot 8 months ago.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

 

[Michael L]

Headline from NPR (I wondered why we don't hear anything from South Africa anymore so I used the most unreliable source of information that we have to find an answer)

INFECTIOUS DISEASE
Omicron may be less severe in South Africa. That may not be the case for the U.S.

Why not? The article says that South Africans are 25% vaxed, natural immunity is the key. Since I paraphrased and didn't read all of it... I left a link to the article

 

[boomtube-mk2]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-says-well-likely-learn-160727844.html
Too me this has been obvious almost from the beginning, so the question becomes, what kind of yearly death toll are we going to face and what kind of permanent "Inconveniences" are we going to be saddled with?
Forever masks?
Twice yearly vaccinations?
Restrictions on attendance for this that and the other?

I would guess that if we see a yearly death rate from Covid19 in the same range as the flu then we won't get anything permanent but what happens if we have 250,000/300,00 a year, would we be able to live with that?

 

[dhbarr]

Headline from NPR (I wondered why we don't hear anything from South Africa anymore so I used the most unreliable source of information that we have to find an answer)

INFECTIOUS DISEASE
Omicron may be less severe in South Africa. That may not be the case for the U.S.

Why not? The article says that South Africans are 25% vaxed, natural immunity is the key. Since I paraphrased and didn't read all of it... I left a link to the article

Last time I looked ( it's been a hot minute ) a lot of the natural immunity in various parts of Africa was suspected to be due to lifelong exposure to many endemic diseases such as malaria, which also kills a lot of the same people covid19 would kill. Not a particularly appealing approach IMO.

 

[dhbarr]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-says-well-likely-learn-160727844.html
Too me this has been obvious almost from the beginning, so the question becomes, what kind of yearly death toll are we going to face and what kind of permanent "Inconveniences" are we going to be saddled with?
Forever masks?
Twice yearly vaccinations?
Restrictions on attendance for this that and the other?

I would guess that if we see a yearly death rate from Covid19 in the same range as the flu then we won't get anything permanent but what happens if we have 250,000/300,00 a year, would we be able to live with that?

I -hope- I can just get my quad-flu + covid booster, and maybe normalize staying home when you're sick and masking up when you're not sure.

 

[Bill S]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-says-well-likely-learn-160727844.html
Too me this has been obvious almost from the beginning, so the question becomes, what kind of yearly death toll are we going to face and what kind of permanent "Inconveniences" are we going to be saddled with?
Forever masks?
Twice yearly vaccinations?
Restrictions on attendance for this that and the other?

I would guess that if we see a yearly death rate from Covid19 in the same range as the flu then we won't get anything permanent but what happens if we have 250,000/300,00 a year, would we be able to live with that?

We seem to be willing to live with roughly twice that number of deaths due to heart disease, which most of the cases were preventable. Sad but true.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

We seem to be willing to live with roughly twice that number of deaths due to heart disease, which most of the cases were preventable. Sad but true.

Or lung cancer.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Or lung cancer.

I don’t smoke. I don’t work with asbestos anymore. If I could further prevent lung cancer with a vaccination or even a mask I would. Wouldn’t you?

 

[Michael L]

I don’t smoke. I don’t work with asbestos anymore. If I could further prevent lung cancer with a vaccination or even a mask I would. Wouldn’t you?

I've never smoked. Never worked with asbestos. I'd be all for a vax if it had gone through proper trials, maybe. So much today is about profit, stock price (not against legit versions of that), etc.

Living forever is impossible and it's likely to be a bit overrated. Humans don't like change and change is inevitable.

Not so much the mask. The kind that actually works isn't like the designer masks that most people wear. Airfloat charcoal passes through the "standard issue" mask as if it isn't even there (much to my disappointment and surprise). When I work with pyro chems I now use a half-face respirator with good cartridges. I'm not wearing that in public. I don't like catching the flu but I never masked up for that and I didn't catch it. Not likely to either.

 

[CalebJ]

I'd be all for a vax if it had gone through proper trials, maybe.

Not so much the mask. The kind that actually works isn't like the designer masks that most people wear. Airfloat charcoal passes through the "standard issue" mask as if it isn't even there (much to my disappointment and surprise). When I work with pyro chems I now use a half-face respirator with good cartridges. I'm not wearing that in public. I don't like catching the flu but I never masked up for that and I didn't catch it. Not likely to either.

Really? Again with this level of drivel?

 

[Michael L]

You tend to attack rather than discuss. Maybe try relaxing a bit. You're too high strung. Come mix make some airfloat with me and and not only will you find out what it is, you'll learn how annoying it can be to work with.

 

[CalebJ]

Attack? No. I'm just tired of people rehashing the same arguments that have been dismissed ad nauseum for 18 months and change. We could instead move forward and actually discuss current legitimate questions.

 

[NateB]

Use airfloat charcoal with and without a mask. I guarantee a simple mask stops some and a respirator stops more. Both aren't perfect as evident by black snot when you make BP, but both are better than nothing.

It is the same thing with virus particles that are taking a ride in water droplets. The mask won't stop everything, but will be a barrier against some of it. Your body has a better chance of fighting and defeating a virus in smaller numbers.

Expanding on that, the vaccine helps your body fight the virus quicker by helping it recognize the virus and having antibodies or a plan to make more antibodies in place already. The quicker your body fights the virus, the less is replicates, the less it mutates, and the less gets spread to the next host.

 

[Michael L]

Attack? No. I'm just tired of people rehashing the same arguments that have been dismissed ad nauseum for 18 months and change. We could instead move forward and actually discuss current legitimate questions.

I wasn't rehashing arguments. I replied to the cancer vaccine question above my post with my opinion. He ended the sentence with a ? so I assumed that it was a question.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

On the topic of paid sick time and paid family leave, it‘s ridiculous that in this country we don’t have those things guaranteed. Obviously, the lack of paid sick time creates a disincentive for sick people to stay home, and that costs all the rest of us when they bring their contagious illnesses to work. It was a problem before covid, and it’s a SERIOUS problem now.

 

[Steve Shannon]

snip…
I'd be all for a vax if it had gone through proper trials, maybe.
snip…

This is the statement that keeps being repeated, that the vaccines we have now didn’t go through a “proper trial”, typically repeated by people who know nothing about mRNA vaccine development.
Not an attack on you; I’m sure you believe that the vaccine didn’t go through proper trials.
When people are dying as fast as they were, what is a “proper trial“ for an mRNA vaccine and how did the development of these vaccines differ from that protocol?

 

[Michael L]

This is the statement that keeps being repeated, that the vaccines we have now didn’t go through a “proper trial”, typically repeated by people who know nothing about mRNA vaccine development.
Not an attack on you; I’m sure you believe that the vaccine didn’t go through proper trials.
When people are dying as fast as they were, what is a “proper trial“ for an mRNA vaccine and how did the development of these vaccines differ from that protocol?

I was talking about your lung cancer post. I said maybe because I'm not prone to protecting myself from something that I'm not statistically likely to get, and yes... as I typed that I said "I hope I don't have to eat my words some day".

I wouldn't wish cancer on my worst enemy. It's already taken too much from me and if we can make a vaccine that protects people from getting COVID... oops... makes the symptoms milder if you take a booster... I mean take two boosters, maybe booster up for the rest of your life, they should have developed something for cancer a long time ago.

I don't take my vehicles to mechanics, one vehicle is fairly new and not likely to need anything and the other is a 2000 Landcruiser that I can work on, if I ever need to... anyway, if I had a mechanic that claimed that he fixed the loud squeak, then said he only made it quieter, then said bring it back again every six months and I'll make it quiet again, I wouldn't use that mechanic. Thankfully I don't need a mechanic.

If you're good with 6 months of trials for an all new type of vaccine developed for a virus of "questionable" origin I'm fine with that. I think it's sketchy at best. I've spent my lifetime not taking meds if I can help it. When I dislocated my shoulder in a motorcycle wreck the ambulance guy used up his morphine but it didn't work. Then when I finally got out of the ER 6 hours after getting there I didn't fill the pain med prescription. I simply didn't need it. I don't run to the doc every time my nose runs. That's not good, that's not bad, that's just me. I watch what I eat. I don't spend a lot of time in crowds. I've survived this doing the opposite of the majority and I've been fine.

We can't talk about the more current vaccination without inciting unfriendly comments from bystanders so I'm out of this topic at this point. Best wishes to all for a healthy, happy, and safe New Year. 73

 

[Michael L]

Use airfloat charcoal with and without a mask. I guarantee a simple mask stops some and a respirator stops more. Both aren't perfect as evident by black snot when you make BP, but both are better than nothing.

I haven't had the same experience. My half face respirator and industrial cartridges has never left me with black snot when I make airfloat. The last batch was around 50 pounds. I still haven't mixed the BP due to distractions.

I guess I wasn't done after all...