Carbon Laser Loc 313… Yup, Carbon

[Theory]

LETS DO THIS! Let’s wrap a Laser Loc 313 in carbon and then fly it on a K2050! Mach 1 in .7 seconds, and 7000’ a few seconds later!!!

Ok, calm down there Theory… yes the Laser Loc is a cool rocket and carbon fiber is also cool but no reason to yell.

This is something I have wanted to do for a long time and am very excited to finally be here. Have had my eye on this kit since Ron created them decades ago. Long, sleek, powerful, and OG Loc, what’s not to like? First the fun part, and what will be the most challenging as the goal will be to leave the raw carbon exposed. Will be wrapping the Laser Loc 313 in carbon, and laminating the fins using 7.23oz 2x2 twill for the airframe and purple mirage for the fins. All material is from Compositeenvisions. Can’t say enough good things about them.




Purple mirage. This stuff is beautiful!!!




The 2x2 for the airframe. Went with the “web lock” treatment here to help keep the patter intact as I roll the material on the airframe.


The rest is fairly standard. The motor mount and fin assembly on this one uses the loc-n-ring system. Will build this outside the the rocket then slide it in for maximum strength. Motor retention will be a GLR slim-line recessed into the tail cone, and will use the matching GLR 38mm adapter when needed.

I am swapping the nose cone for a 3” Pinnacle for a more aggressive look and slightly improved aerodynamics. This will be partially filled with 4lbs expanding foam to improve rigidity.

Recovery will be a Top Flight 9” x 90” ultra streamer for the drogue and an appropriately sized crossfire chute for the main. Nomex blankets and standard Loc Kevlar and nylon shock cords round out the recovery. Everything will be controlled by an RRC3.

Obligingly parts picture:


Will use System Three T88 for all structural bonds, rocket poxy for the external fillets, and System Three Silver Tip for laminating.

To carry the color theme along and also try something new, I am going to paint the nose cone, switch band, and tail cone with the Dupli Color metal cast system in anodized purple.

 

[Tim51]

I approve of this activity. Loc kits look very cool wrapped. Some time ago I built a 4 fin, 4" Minie Magg downscale using Loc Tubing and nosecone, with a 54mm mmt, specifically for 1G motors. Wrapped it in carbon. It's my favourite pop 'n' drop.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Anxious to see the carbon layup process

 

[mtnmanak]

Good luck, that will be a very cool rocket!

7.23oz CF - that is some heavy fabric!! That is not an easy layup on those lightweight tubes.

 

[Theory]

Progress…

Bonded the forward payload tubes together. Will run this as a single payload area to allow ample room for the recovery gear. Also started the eBay and epoxied the “stuffy” tube into the main coupler:



Mark the center, glue together, move on…



Next up was the tail cone / slimline retainer. Tested the “sandability” of the tail cone before deciding on the idea to recess the GLR slimline retainer. It’s sandable so let’s go:







Sandable yes, but lots of work. Let’s speed it up. Broke out the grinder and sanding drum / flapper wheel I’ve used to port exhaust and intake manifolds…


Maybe 10 min and a crap ton of dust later:




Yup, that’s what we’re like for. And before you all say anything, the tail cone is plastic not fiberglass, so no worries on glass fibers in my skin.

 

[crossfire]

Progress…

Bonded the forward payload tubes together. Will run this as a single payload area to allow ample room for the recovery gear. Also started the eBay and epoxied the “stuffy” tube into the main coupler:

View attachment 519658

Mark the center, glue together, move on…

View attachment 519659

Next up was the tail cone / slimline retainer. Tested the “sandability” of the tail cone before deciding on the idea to recess the GLR slimline retainer. It’s sandable so let’s go:

View attachment 519660

View attachment 519661

View attachment 519664

Sandable yes, but lots of work. Let’s speed it up. Broke out the grinder and sanding drum / flapper wheel I’ve used to port exhaust and intake manifolds…

View attachment 519662
Maybe 10 min and a crap ton of dust later:
View attachment 519663

View attachment 519665

Yup, that’s what we’re like for. And before you all say anything, the tail cone is plastic not fiberglass, so no worries on glass fibers in my skin.

Nice work. Did you print the tail cone?

 

[jmasterj]

Nice work. Did you print the tail cone?

Looks cast to me, there's a little bubble void visible in the 3rd picture, the one with the purple hand sandpaper.

 

[Theory]

Tail cone came with the kit. Nice piece to be sure

 

[Theory]

Had the payload together so why not wrap it?!

Measure and cut the carbon. I like to cut it a little long then make the final cuts once it’s at the “leather stage.” I also cut the peel ply but neglected to take a picture. Went with a smooth material that will leave a surface that will require as little finishing work as possible.






Epoxy and mixing / application things:





Then it’s time to go. Roughed the tube assembly with 400 grit to get it ready to accept the cloth. I do not feel the need to go nutso here. Some hit it with 150 grit and get it all fuzzed up. I just don’t see the need.

Then I mixed the epoxy and carefully used the brush to wet out the carbon. Once wet went over it with with spreader to even everything and remove some excess.

Once wet and even I rolled it on paying attention to keep the patter aligned as I wanted it.





Then (and this took some doing as my paper bled through and stuck to the table requiring some clean up) I laid out the peel ply and wrapped it as tightly as I could while ensuring there were no creases or air pockets.

All in all a good days work

 

[thzero]

Good luck!

 

[mtnmanak]

Great Work! That layup look great!

... my paper bled through and stuck to the table requiring some clean up...

It looks like you do some frequent layups - I got a role of this stuff years ago and it is still going strong after many, many layups. It isn't exactly cheap, but I use this paper at least once a week and it never bleeds (one side is wax coated). It really is good stuff -

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XZM2ASU

 

[Theory]

Thank you man, will look into that paper.

Pulled the “smooth release” peel ply and am very happy with the results





The chip brush left three hairs in the epoxy :-/. Not sure what I am going to do about that



Will touch up some low spots then sand with 320 grit using the “shoe shine” method

While that was curing I took to the fins. Not my best bevel ever but it will work

 

[waltr]

CF tube looks good. Also looks like the epoxy is a bit thick but very hard to tell from a photo.
Did you weight the tube before and after to determine have much weight was added with the CF?

I'd just leave the brush hairs. Put the rail buttons on that side of the tube so not seen.

 

[Theory]

It is a little heavy on epoxy however a good amount will be sanded off. Not worried, and no, didn’t weigh the tubes with the coupler before hand.

 

[Tim51]

Great job. The brush hairs may well lift out as you flat it with the sanding block. I'd start dry with 240 or 320, then switch to wet sanding as you move up through the grades.

What are your plans for the fins? Are you wrapping them before assembly or doing tip to tip once they're in?

 

[Theory]

Progress…

Set up the sanding rig and got to work. The rig is nothing more that some 2x2 clamped to saw horses. Tight fitting couplers are then clamped to the 2x2. Not sexy but it works! Started with 220grit as it turned out some areas needed a little more “attention” than I previously thought.

I like this set up as it allows me to use a back and forth “show shine” technique that follows the curve of the tube virtually eliminating the risk of flat spots.



Started with 220, then moved to 320, then 800.



After I was happy I brushed it with a very light coat of epoxy





Once cured this will get sanded with 800 then 1500. Goal is to have this completed this weekend

 

[Theory]

The name of the game here is patience, sanding and patience.

Wet sanded for quite some time this morning. First 1500 grit



Then 2000



Then 3000



It’s some effort but it is more than worth it. Once dry I shot the clear



Have a small run in it that I’ll take care of but couldn’t be happier.

Can’t say I’m looking forward to doing this all again on the booster but I’m confident it will turn out well

 

[Theory]

Now to the fins. This is really your run of the mill composite over ply process, but will share how I do it.

Gather your materials and lay out the carbon ensuring you have enough material to cover your part with a little excess all around




I lay 1” blue tape to outline the shape to be cut the. I cut the middle of the tape. This helps keeps the carbon in line. Also cut your release material and get your breather/batting. I use blue Scott shop towels.


Mix your epoxy, I’m using System Three Silver Tip with the slow hardener, and grab a brush. Paint one side of your finger with epoxy then position the carbon on top. Then processed to wet out the piece. Once wet place the release material on top and work out all of the air. Take your time here, air bubbles are not your friends. Then position the breather material. When completed, carefully flip over and do the same on the other side.



Once you have both pieces measure the overall length and cut a food saver vacuum seal bag 6-8” longer than what you measured. I really find the extra room handy, but feel free to save a little if you want.

Slide everything in carefully, CAREFULLY, and set the vac sealer to “gentle”. As the vacuum is pulled make sure you don’t have any creases. If all goes well you will see the shape of the fin and excess epoxy being pulled out of the matrix. Yes, I know…



Let cure and remove it all



Trim with your tool of choice. This is 87% of the way there. Still needs cleaned up.





Then repeat with the remaining fins. I do one at a time but of course you can do them all at once so long as your epoxy doesn’t cook off.

To be continued…

 

[Theory]

Made some good progress on the fins. All the carbon is on, and each has been sanded. Also took some time to tighten up the leading edge with a little died epoxy. Wasn’t super happy with how they looked when I cut them out, this addressed that.


Fins in process. The one at the bottom left has the fist coat of epoxy after being cut to shape and the leading edge dressed. The top gun has been sanded, and the fin on the bottom right has the final thin coat of epoxy applied.



The final step will be to wet sand with 1500 grit then 2000 grit prior to installation into the fin-loc mmt assembly.

For other items, the outer part of the electronics bay is complete to include static ports in the switch band, and also completed the forward centering ring and Kevlar harness.





More to come

 

[ECayemberg]

Such an awesomely amazing build! Watching with great interest!!!

 

[Theory]

Continuing work on the fins.

Tried to get some pictures of the “purple mirage” but the phone didn’t really want to cooperate. This stuff is beautiful




but that beauty comes at a cost. The purple is actually died copper wire. Very very very thin so as not to negatively affect drapeability, but still copper. The issue there is when sanding if you go through the epoxy by one slightest bit you sand off the purple and have shiny copper



Not the best by any means as the whole idea in using this was aesthetics. Oh well…

Fins will be completed this weekend then the motor mount can be assembled. Final finish on the fins will be a wet sand with 2000 grit. 2K clear will be sprayed at the very end to bring the gloss back.

 

[Theory]

a word on the epoxies.

this is my first time using System Three's Silver Tip epoxy for laminating and so far so good.

it mixes easily, the viscosity is what you want for laminating so wet out is quick, it doesn't blush, and sands easily.

unsure how well it would do at prolonged mach speeds, and what the long term durability is, but I am a fan so far.

the T88 is a long time favorite, not sure any more is needed unless you are really going to "lay on it," and even then I am thinking that it would work so long as solid construction practices are followed.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Every time I see a thread where people wrap carbon fiber around a tube they never show how the seam is done.

 

[Theory]

Every time I see a thread where people wrap carbon fiber around a tube they never show how the seam is done.

really just wrap it around. no reason to over complicate it.

wrap the carbon tight, wrap your peel ply or whatever else you are using even tighter, remove as much air as you can and let it cure.

the "bump" will very depending on the thickness of the material, but nothing a little epoxy and sanding cant address.

 

[Hobie1dog]

really just wrap it around. no reason to over complicate it.

wrap the carbon tight, wrap your peel ply or whatever else you are using even tighter, remove as much air as you can and let it cure.

the "bump" will very depending on the thickness of the material, but nothing a little epoxy and sanding cant address.

I would never thought that it would be acceptable to have a "bump" in a wrap around a tube. I assumed you had to put a piece of thin kevlar under the overlap and use a knife along an aluminum angle laid down and make a clean cut, so that there would be a nice butt joint.

 

[Theory]

“Bump” might be a grandiose word for this.



The seam on the payload. Maybe if you really try you can feel it…

Not worried, and like I said, not a big deal.

Not sure I would want to try and but two ends up. The fabric can and does stretch. Keeping everything tight and even sounds like a nightmare

 

[Theory]

In other news, the electronics sled is complete.

Nothing fancy here, and that’s by design. Need it simple and reliable

 

[Philip Tiberius D.]

Great Work! That layup look great!



It looks like you do some frequent layups - I got a role of this stuff years ago and it is still going strong after many, many layups. It isn't exactly cheap, but I use this paper at least once a week and it never bleeds (one side is wax coated). It really is good stuff -

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XZM2ASU

What are you using for peel-ply and where did you get it ?

 

[mtnmanak]

What are you using for peel-ply and where did you get it ?

I have been getting the majority of my composite fabrics from these guys for years:

https://www.cstsales.com/
I like that they have a good selection, quality products, and that they allow you to buy in small quantities or save some money if you are willing to buy a decent size roll.

For peel ply specifically, I have tried all their peel ply and release layer products:

https://www.cstsales.com/a-vacuum-supplies-peel-plies.html
They are all good and give you some different options. I like the more porous release layers when I am doing vacuum layups because you get a more even coverage of the epoxy, but they leave a relatively rough surface that will need to be smoothed out (or not, the slightly rough surface could be a cool intended finish). The less or non porous peel plies and release layers leave a smoother finish, but you need to be more careful in your layups in order to ensure the epoxy doesn't pool up anywhere. Obviously, Mylar gives you a glass smooth finish, but is more difficult to use without pooling.

Their breathers are a good deal as well:

https://www.cstsales.com/a-vacuum-supplies-breathers.html
And, as a bonus, they are an Insta-cure CA dealer. Their prices are pretty much the same as most other places, but I figure I always need CA, so usually when I order composites I throw in a bottle or two of CA to get it all in on the same shipping bill.

 

[Theory]

What are you using for peel-ply and where did you get it ?

This what I chose:

https://compositeenvisions.com/prod...opolymer-release-film/?attribute_pa_color=red
Removes very easily and leaves a high gloss finish (not the intent as I’m going to send) however it is a finished that is super smooth. Not the best for secondary bonding but as I’m not doing tip-to-tip or anything like that it’s perfect.