can a plane take off from a conveyor moving at the same rate as the plane

[Steve Shannon]

Maybe this will help:
https://web.calpoly.edu/~jfernsle/Classes/PHYS141/labs131/131-04 AY10 (frict).pdf

In particular read the last sentence in the first paragraph.

 

[anbhtblr]

Isn't the only factor the relative speed of the lifting surfaces through the air mass?

 

[Zeus-cat]

No, you’re wrong. Once static friction has been overcome the friction actually goes down and sliding faster, although generating more heat, does not create more drag. That’s why spinning your tires faster and faster on ice doesn’t get you unstuck.
Think about that. [emoji16]

I don't see where I said that static friction was less than rolling friction. I have agreed with everything you said. I quoted you to point out that I neglected to say which way I intended the treadmill to move for my example.

Anyway, its late and I need to go to bed.

 

[kuririn]

OK, so the answer to the original post would be (c). RexR, you owe me two aspirin for asking a question to which you apparently already knew the answer.
To put it in layman's terms, (since I'm a layman), my analogy of a human on a motorized treadmill (or an automobile on a dynamometer) would not apply because the forward propulsion in both instances comes from the traction of the feet/tires with the treadmill/dynamometer rollers, and the power of the leg muscles/engine-drive train.
If a plane had a forward speed of X kph and the conveyor belt had an opposite speed of X kph the aircraft would still accelerate because the belt's countering speed is not TRANSFERRED to the aircraft. The plane's forward propulsion is not dependent on any traction with the surface.
Thanks to the knowledgable respondents for explaining that.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Isn't the only factor the relative speed of the lifting surfaces through the air mass?

Yes.

 

[Steve Shannon]

I don't see where I said that static friction was less than rolling friction. I have agreed with everything you said. I quoted you to point out that I neglected to say which way I intended the treadmill to move for my example.

Anyway, its late and I need to go to bed.

I apologize if I misunderstood your post.

 

[dhbarr]

Dump afterburners and torch the treadmill.

 

[grouch]

Wings don't know how fast wheels are turning. Wheels are beneath them.