Build Tips for 5" rocket?
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Justin Horne
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So delete it...
Justin Horne
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It's not allowed? then why is there the option? Well, thanks for letting me know. I always thought that since I could, I was allowed to...
Neil
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Yea, I suggested it last time this subjet was brought up... Mark told me it was a defenite NO.
Though I have no idea why they have the option to delete a thread if your not allowed to do it... There must be a good reason for it that I havnt thought of...
Though I have no idea why they have the option to delete a thread if your not allowed to do it...
There must be a good reason for it that I havnt thought of...
rabidsheeep
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on my clans site alotta times when people delete threads the database gets messed up on the server for some reason (picky linux stuff) so instead we have a public trash section where we move what we dont want
karatekicker271
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You guys this subject is getting tiring. We've already heard these comments somewhere around 1,000,000 times, and I think we have gotten the picture. Does that mean Im going to stop... no. Jus leave it alone! Howd it get so astray from a 5" rocket to this argument. Evil prince, there IS an argument. Just stop ok?
Connor
Connor
karatekicker271
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Originally posted by Neil
Yea, I suggested it last time this subjet was brought up... Mark told me it was a defenite NO.
Though I have no idea why they have the option to delete a thread if your not allowed to do it...
Its to delete a POST, not a thread
MarkABrown
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You can delete your own individual post however, if you delete the first post in the thread, you delete the entire thread. We don't want you deleting entire threads once someone else has posted to it because you then start infringing on their rights to have their posts seen. You CAN delete your posts as long as its somewhere in the middle or its first and nobody else has posted.Originally posted by Justin Horne
It's not allowed? then why is there the option? Well, thanks for letting me know. I always thought that since I could, I was allowed to...
Regarding this topic shift. I understand that the minors on here are getting tired of hearing the same thing over and over. What you need to understand is that anytime you post something that indicates that you're gonna fly HPR motors when you're underage, you open the thread up to this kind of shift. Evil Prince is right. There is currently no official way that you can fly HPR motors. Even the "flying under the parent" banner is still, I believe, not an "OFFICIAL" policy. It's more of a "wink and a nod" kinda agreement to circumvent the regulations.
As far as deleting this whole thread, No.
Wow, this thread degraded right quick didn't it?
I was once a kid with a passion for HPR also. In fact, I was even "confirmed" at the ripe old age of 14 in 1992 (Aerotech H70!). When Tripoli implented 3 step certification in 1994, I was one of the first people (people period, not just "kid") to achieve my L2 cert (Vulcan K500 @ LDRS 14).
A couple years later due to outside influence, my certification was stripped because I was under age. It happened to several other folks my age.
I'm 27 now. As annoyed as I was by it at the time, I am not any more. You have to realize that there are things in play that are bigger than you as an individual.
Evil Prince might sound a bit harsh in his assessment and handling of the rules, but he is still in the right.
If I had advice for younger rocketeers, it would be to not focus so much on power levels. There is an awful lot that can be done using 62.5 gram and under motors that you can do.
Start learning how to fiberglass. Read up on EX theory, etc. Build a 2 stage using composite F/G motors and electronic ignition/deployment. Build clusters.
As my mother used to say to me, "Don't wish your life away." Trust me on this one... Somewhere in your mid-20s you'll be slaving away for the man in a cube farm somewhere wishing all you had to worry about was getting a passing grade in English...
--Alex (Speaking from experience)
I was once a kid with a passion for HPR also. In fact, I was even "confirmed" at the ripe old age of 14 in 1992 (Aerotech H70!). When Tripoli implented 3 step certification in 1994, I was one of the first people (people period, not just "kid") to achieve my L2 cert (Vulcan K500 @ LDRS 14).
A couple years later due to outside influence, my certification was stripped because I was under age. It happened to several other folks my age.
I'm 27 now. As annoyed as I was by it at the time, I am not any more. You have to realize that there are things in play that are bigger than you as an individual.
Evil Prince might sound a bit harsh in his assessment and handling of the rules, but he is still in the right.
If I had advice for younger rocketeers, it would be to not focus so much on power levels. There is an awful lot that can be done using 62.5 gram and under motors that you can do.
Start learning how to fiberglass. Read up on EX theory, etc. Build a 2 stage using composite F/G motors and electronic ignition/deployment. Build clusters.
As my mother used to say to me, "Don't wish your life away." Trust me on this one... Somewhere in your mid-20s you'll be slaving away for the man in a cube farm somewhere wishing all you had to worry about was getting a passing grade in English...
--Alex (Speaking from experience)
Neil
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cant do EX... My dad wont let me No point in doing that...
Well, I guess I might as well just do as you say... Ill still want to fly the birds I have if/when NAR does its jr cert thing. But for now, I guess ill concentrate on other things.
No point in doing that...Well, I guess I might as well just do as you say... Ill still want to fly the birds I have if/when NAR does its jr cert thing. But for now, I guess ill concentrate on other things.
A
Austin
Man, where the heck was I when this conversation was going on??? Looks like we need to clear up a few things here and then move along.
Regarding your rocket Neil...I need not comment. Have fun building and do what you wish, but remember the advice many have given in the fact that someone is always responsible for the flight and if you ever get turned away, please understand why and that good things will come to those who wait (and come of age).
Next, Evil Prince was correct in the fact that there is no Junior HPR Certification program at this time and there never will be, for good reason. Now, please read further before you all get shook up and excitable.
The term "Certification" can only apply to individuals that are 18 years of age or older...this is a NFPA Regulation, which makes up the meat of the NAR HPR Safety Code and since it is set by an outside organization, we at the NAR cannot change it at this time. So, at any time, you will NEVER see the words "Cert" or "Certification" or any other variants used by the NAR with regards to Juniors flying HPR as it would go against current set regulations...period. I would like everyone to get the word out of your head if you can and repeat after me... it will never be used by the NAR for juniors. To go into this one step further, it is not the rocket that cannot be flown, but rather it is the motor that cannot be handled by a minor under the age of 18. ..period.
That said, we will clear a few other things up that Evil Prince may not be aware of regarding juniors and HPR. The statment he made that it was not discussed at NARAM is incorrect.
At the Town Hall Meeting Monday Evening during NARAM 46, it was announced by the NAR Vice President Trip Barber that the NAR Board of Trustees has decided there is a way minors can participate in HPR rocketry, similar to the method currently in place by the CAR, with changes made to accomedate our regulations and laws. This will bring the NAR in line with those young rocketeers who are more than capable of building and flying HPR models and give them a way to "participate" in the fast growing sport of HPR.
The Junior will be required to build and prep the rocket, however, the motor will remain at all times in the possesion of a Certified adult. Once the rocket has flown successfully, the Junior will receive and endorsement on their membership card as a "Junior HPR Level 1 Participant". This will automatically roll over into a full L1 Cert when the junior turns 18. Let me use the word one more time to make sure you all understand; the Junior member will be a "Participant" and cannot legally be indicated as "Certified" until they reach 18 years of age.
The details of the program are currently under development and with any luck, we may have the program in place as early as this fall or winter. Remember this though, that the NAR will not tolerate any deviation of the rules currently under development. Trust me when I say we are going through it in great detail to make sure our bases are covered. However, it is felt that, as Evil Prince stated more than once, that you young fliers are our future and we have recognized that and are taking steps to help you grow in the area of High Power Rocketry.
One other important point...the program is under development which means until you see it announced officially on the NAR website, this program is not in effect!!!
Carl
Regarding your rocket Neil...I need not comment. Have fun building and do what you wish, but remember the advice many have given in the fact that someone is always responsible for the flight and if you ever get turned away, please understand why and that good things will come to those who wait (and come of age).
Next, Evil Prince was correct in the fact that there is no Junior HPR Certification program at this time and there never will be, for good reason. Now, please read further before you all get shook up and excitable.
The term "Certification" can only apply to individuals that are 18 years of age or older...this is a NFPA Regulation, which makes up the meat of the NAR HPR Safety Code and since it is set by an outside organization, we at the NAR cannot change it at this time. So, at any time, you will NEVER see the words "Cert" or "Certification" or any other variants used by the NAR with regards to Juniors flying HPR as it would go against current set regulations...period. I would like everyone to get the word out of your head if you can and repeat after me... it will never be used by the NAR for juniors. To go into this one step further, it is not the rocket that cannot be flown, but rather it is the motor that cannot be handled by a minor under the age of 18. ..period.
That said, we will clear a few other things up that Evil Prince may not be aware of regarding juniors and HPR. The statment he made that it was not discussed at NARAM is incorrect.
At the Town Hall Meeting Monday Evening during NARAM 46, it was announced by the NAR Vice President Trip Barber that the NAR Board of Trustees has decided there is a way minors can participate in HPR rocketry, similar to the method currently in place by the CAR, with changes made to accomedate our regulations and laws. This will bring the NAR in line with those young rocketeers who are more than capable of building and flying HPR models and give them a way to "participate" in the fast growing sport of HPR.
The Junior will be required to build and prep the rocket, however, the motor will remain at all times in the possesion of a Certified adult. Once the rocket has flown successfully, the Junior will receive and endorsement on their membership card as a "Junior HPR Level 1 Participant". This will automatically roll over into a full L1 Cert when the junior turns 18. Let me use the word one more time to make sure you all understand; the Junior member will be a "Participant" and cannot legally be indicated as "Certified" until they reach 18 years of age.
The details of the program are currently under development and with any luck, we may have the program in place as early as this fall or winter. Remember this though, that the NAR will not tolerate any deviation of the rules currently under development. Trust me when I say we are going through it in great detail to make sure our bases are covered. However, it is felt that, as Evil Prince stated more than once, that you young fliers are our future and we have recognized that and are taking steps to help you grow in the area of High Power Rocketry.
One other important point...the program is under development which means until you see it announced officially on the NAR website, this program is not in effect!!!
Carl
Neil
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Man, talk about confusing...
So the we (the kid) build a rocket, and hand it to an adult who then shoves the motor in the tail, sets it on the pad and fires it off? And once the motors in there, can we touch it?
Well, I may be the only one, but I think this deserves its own thread. Why dont you (any moderator) take this bit of the conversation (starting with Carls post) and put it in its own thread so its less confusing... I would really apreciate that.
So the we (the kid) build a rocket, and hand it to an adult who then shoves the motor in the tail, sets it on the pad and fires it off? And once the motors in there, can we touch it?
Well, I may be the only one, but I think this deserves its own thread. Why dont you (any moderator) take this bit of the conversation (starting with Carls post) and put it in its own thread so its less confusing... I would really apreciate that.
utahrc
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It may seem silly, but it sounds like NAR is doing everything it can within the law to recognize the efforts of the younger crowd. If you've got a beef with the restrictions placed on you, you need to take it up with the federal government, not with NAR.
Justin Horne
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No.
From what I gather, the jr. participant does EVERYTHING except build the motor (and possibly put it in. They say the part. can't build a motor, so handling it may qualify too...)
Either way, you would do absolutely everything except build the motor and put it in. Doesn't sound like too bad a tradeoff to me...
Missileman
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OK so you can't fly HPR, doesn't mean you can't make this a long term project. A learning experience.
Make something cool out of it like maybe a Jayhawk or X15.
You will have to learn to make your own nosecones/boattails.
Build a smaller model first for testing and practice making molds ect...
It might seem like forever looking forward to turning 18 but believe me it will go much faster than you think. You will look back and this will seem like it was just yesterday and you will wonder where the time has gone.
I say go ahead and build your rocket, have fun and learn all you can.
Make something cool out of it like maybe a Jayhawk or X15.
You will have to learn to make your own nosecones/boattails.
Build a smaller model first for testing and practice making molds ect...
It might seem like forever looking forward to turning 18 but believe me it will go much faster than you think. You will look back and this will seem like it was just yesterday and you will wonder where the time has gone.
I say go ahead and build your rocket, have fun and learn all you can.
my dad isnt L1 certified and i dont have a LEUP, doese that mean i'll need to get some other club member that IS certified to purchase the motor for me and keep it until the launch for me? oh yeah this needs to be seperated into a diffrent thread
Neil
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But once its build, what will I do with it, if I cant fly it? Well, I guess I could buy some really high-strenth fishing line and hang it from my ceiling to scare the wits out of houseguests...
Yea, I guess ill just have to wait... Itll be a pain, since I have already gotten this far, but hey... Hopefully they will get the jr cert program so I can legally fly Hs and Is with my dad.
Yea, I guess ill just have to wait... Itll be a pain, since I have already gotten this far, but hey... Hopefully they will get the jr cert program so I can legally fly Hs and Is with my dad.
Neil
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You could... Or you could get your dad to certify. Make sure he builds the rocket (you can demonstrate on your own rocket, just dont do anything more than tie a shockcord on or anything on his L1...
Just ask him nicely... Then ask him again the day after... And the next 50 odd days after that... By then, he will say yes just to shut you up, and once he does, he will proabably like it and wonder why the heck he didnt say yes right away. Thats how it worked for me! 
loopy
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Neil - here's the part that I don't understand...why is it so important for you (and others like you - talented individuals who have a pretty good idea what they are doing) to build these huge rockets for motors that you legally can't touch? I'm 29. I could certify, but I don't have the money for it right now. So, like you, I'm limited, but by budget instead of age. Instead of complaining about something I can't change, I just keep looking forward to the day that I will be able to certify, and I'll be happy on that day. For now, I have a blast building and flying low/midpower birds, and soaking up as much information as I possibly can so that when the time comes that I can afford to certify, I'm ready.
Main point is - enjoy what you have! Mid power is an absolute blast, and an opportunity to learn TONS of stuff about the hobby. Bash a few kits to take bigger motors, and make them fly stable. You'll learn alot.
Loopy
Main point is - enjoy what you have! Mid power is an absolute blast, and an opportunity to learn TONS of stuff about the hobby. Bash a few kits to take bigger motors, and make them fly stable. You'll learn alot.
Loopy
DPatell
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We build big rockets because it's cool. I am not complaining about regulations or organizations because I know there is squat I can do about it. Basically, I just be patient, enjoy the hobby, and fly with my dad. It's together time and we are doing something cooler than collecting stamps. (no offense to any stamp collectors )
The only reason I fly HPR is because my dad is interested as well. Had he not decided to cert or to get his LEUP, I'd still be flying MPR.
I personally can afford HPR motors because I mow lawns to support my hobby. I don't have to pay for much else, but as of the last year or two I have completely funded my projects. If there is something my dad and I both have an interest in, we go halves on it. I can usually afford a K and a few smaller motors every month, it keeps me going.
Our system works. I consider myself lucky to have a dad like mine. He's cool
)The only reason I fly HPR is because my dad is interested as well. Had he not decided to cert or to get his LEUP, I'd still be flying MPR.
I personally can afford HPR motors because I mow lawns to support my hobby. I don't have to pay for much else, but as of the last year or two I have completely funded my projects. If there is something my dad and I both have an interest in, we go halves on it. I can usually afford a K and a few smaller motors every month, it keeps me going.
Our system works. I consider myself lucky to have a dad like mine. He's cool
Ryan S.
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Originally posted by DPatell
We build big rockets because it's cool.
**** right
I am not complaining about regulations or organizations because I know there is squat I can do about it. Basically, I just be patient, enjoy the hobby, and fly with my dad. It's together time and we are doing something cooler than collecting stamps. (no offense to any stamp collectors
The only reason I fly HPR is because my dad is interested as well. Had he not decided to cert or to get his LEUP, I'd still be flying MPR.
I personally can afford HPR motors because I mow lawns to support my hobby. I don't have to pay for much else, but as of the last year or two I have completely funded my projects. If there is something my dad and I both have an interest in, we go halves on it. I can usually afford a K and a few smaller motors every month, it keeps me going.
Our system works. I consider myself lucky to have a dad like mine. He's cool
awww how cute
loopy
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Dan, I think that's cool, and I appreciate the fact that you accept the facts of the case, and realize there's not anything you can do to fix, and don't feel you have to constantly push the limits. It's also cool you realize how good the time is with your father. My kids are still too young to really appreciate it (3 and 5 years old). Hopefully they'll learn to appreciate it the way you have. That's cool!
Mark
Mark
