Brocket Beta build thread

[Cape Byron]

My biggest struggle has been with the body wraps. I feel like this is a ME problem and not a design issue. Has been a really fun rocket to assemble. I decided to do 2 and I am going to paint the second one rather than fight with get fingers and glue!

What glue?

 

[messedupryan]

What glue?

The photo paper I used was thick, it didn't want to roll well. It also had a bit of a finish on the back side, not glossy, but not clean paper. I tried

- Elmer's Spray adhesive
- Elmers Purple (but dries clear) glue sticks
- Mod Podge
- TBII

In the end, the TBII held the best. I think if I were to do a wrap again, I would get better paper. That seems to be most of the issue is adhesion to the paper and resisting the curl.

 

[user 35280]

The photo paper I used was thick, it didn't want to roll well. It also had a bit of a finish on the back side, not glossy, but not clean paper. I tried

- Elmer's Spray adhesive
- Elmers Purple (but dries clear) glue sticks
- Mod Podge
- TBII

In the end, the TBII held the best. I think if I were to do a wrap again, I would get better paper. That seems to be most of the issue is adhesion to the paper and resisting the curl.

View attachment 496341

Looks great.

 

[Sandy H.]

The photo paper I used was thick, it didn't want to roll well. It also had a bit of a finish on the back side, not glossy, but not clean paper. I tried

- Elmer's Spray adhesive
- Elmers Purple (but dries clear) glue sticks
- Mod Podge
- TBII

In the end, the TBII held the best. I think if I were to do a wrap again, I would get better paper. That seems to be most of the issue is adhesion to the paper and resisting the curl.

View attachment 496341

If you've got some spare photo paper and spare tubes (or something similar) it might be interesting to see what happens if you sanded the back of the paper a bit or pre-prepped with an acetone wipe. I like the idea of wraps on photo paper for some projects, but don't have any on-hand to try. My 'Der Fred Max' looked ok with plain adhesive paper for a while, but didn't fare well long-term. I think it would look better with glossy paper for sure.

Sandy.

 

[kuririn]

Musings


Someone suggested motors in the side pods.
Wouldn't fly stable as a rocket but what about a string or wire guided LSR car?
A la Blurzz dragsters?
Add a tri carriage wheel assembly.
Hmmm..........

 

[Mugs914]

I dare ya....

 

[kuririn]

Too many partially completed projects right now.
But if someone's up for the challenge.....

 

[Mugs914]

I have a LONG history of building rocket cars (A result of my LSR enthusiasm). I haven't built one in a good while, maybe it's time for a rehash...

 

[GlenP]

If you've got some spare photo paper and spare tubes (or something similar) it might be interesting to see what happens if you sanded the back of the paper a bit or pre-prepped with an acetone wipe. I like the idea of wraps on photo paper for some projects, but don't have any on-hand to try. My 'Der Fred Max' looked ok with plain adhesive paper for a while, but didn't fare well long-term. I think it would look better with glossy paper for sure.

Sandy.

For cardstock paper builds, I will add a clear coat, semi gloss or glossy, maybe UV matte finish, depends on the type of rocket. The clear coat does a good job of protecting the paper a bit longer. With a good glossy clear coat, it really looks as if it was printed on a glossy paper, but the ink is underneath the clear and protected.

 

[user 35280]

What is a plan pack worth?

$3.00 usd

 

[GlenP]

The photo paper I used was thick, it didn't want to roll well. It also had a bit of a finish on the back side, not glossy, but not clean paper. I tried

- Elmer's Spray adhesive
- Elmers Purple (but dries clear) glue sticks
- Mod Podge
- TBII

In the end, the TBII held the best. I think if I were to do a wrap again, I would get better paper. That seems to be most of the issue is adhesion to the paper and resisting the curl.

View attachment 496341

For photo paper, maybe use the spray adhesive they use to mount photos to matte board, ask what they use in a framing shop maybe?

paper usually has a grain to it, can you print the design rotated 90 deg and try to roll the paper in that direction? It will crease across the grains, but should roll with the grains.

 

[Cape Byron]

Musings
View attachment 497268

Someone suggested motors in the side pods.
Wouldn't fly stable as a rocket but what about a string or wire guided LSR car?
A la Blurzz dragsters?
Add a tri carriage wheel assembly.
Hmmm..........

Wait... I design a rocket that looks like a car and you want to turn it into... a car?

 

[Cape Byron]

Maybe this one would make a good cluster tether car, @kuririn !

 

[user 35280]

Maybe this one would make a good cluster tether car, @kuririn !

View attachment 497417

Goony buzz bomb

 

[Cape Byron]

Goony buzz bomb

Already done by Estes.



@K'Tesh 's OR file is here:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/kteshs-openrocket-files.123564/page-11

 

[user 35280]

Already done by Estes.

View attachment 497420

@K'Tesh 's OR file is here:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/kteshs-openrocket-files.123564/page-11

Nah, yours actually looks like a goony buzz bomb.

 

[Sandy H.]

Wait... I design a rocket that looks like a car and you want to turn it into... a car?

I think those blurzz dragsters ran down a string or some other guide wire. What would happen if you took the car and made a rocket out of it and then made it into a car, BUT THEN ran the guide wire up in the air so it flew like a rocket???

 

[Cape Byron]

There is one here in my older notebooks. Somewhere...

 

[Cape Byron]

I think those blurzz dragsters ran down a string or some other guide wire. What would happen if you took the car and made a rocket out of it and then made it into a car, BUT THEN ran the guide wire up in the air so it flew like a rocket???

Attaching the guide wire to a skyhook?

 

[les]

Time for some ketchup - I mean catch up

I used my handy-dandy Estes cutting guides for the BT50 & BT60 tubes. I also used it to mark align the CR on the BT20 motor tube



Instead of the wrap of tape, I did use the ring supplied with the motor mount from the Baby Bertha.
I'm not sure what weight the Kevlar cord is. I also wrapped in around the body tube twice so I used a longer length.

 

[les]

I used the jigsaw puzzle approach for the fin. I did have a little issue with the tiny front "nose" extension.



I then papered the fin and trimmed it

 

[user 35280]

wrapped in around the body tube twice so I used a longer length.

How will you replace the Kevlar when it burns through?

 

[les]

I went to my local Staples and had the wraps laser printed. I got 2 copies (good thing).
I wanted them to print onto an adhesive backed full sheet paper, but they had none. All they had with an adhesive back was already pre-cut as labels. I did not want to try to mosaic it back together so I went with just the thinnest glossy paper they had. But on the plus side, they nicely charged me $0.00 for it!

I coated the printed side of the paper with 3 coats of enamel gloss clear coat.

I then tried to experiment. Bwa-Ha-Ha - get to play a Mad Rocket Scientist!
I've read that heat will re-activate white glue. I applied a layer on the back of the white fin tub and let it dry,
I then wrapped it onto the BT50 tube and grabbed my wife's iron. Fortunately, I decided to protect it with a bit of aluminum foil. I aligned the wrap, secured one end with a rubber band, and applied heat. The glue reactivated and stuck to the tube. I worked my way around but noticed some of the black printed lifted (than goodness for the foil). But otherwise it came out OK. But seeing the color lifted and concerned me.

I then tried the red wrap. Disaster. Again - glad I thought to use the foil or else I probably would have owed my wife a new iron. The heat kept pulling the red off. I tried turning the heat down. By the time it was at a low enough setting to not pull the laser printing, it no longer activated the glue. I thought I took pix, but I can't find them on my phone.



Plan B - Elmer's glue

I pre-curled the wraps. I initially did the fin BT-50 wraps around the x-acto knife handle, then stuck it inside the BT50 tube. The main body wrap I pre-curled around a spare section of BT50 tube. I also used a red sharpie to do the edges of the one fin wrap.

Before and after of the sharpie. If you look closely, you can see the white paper edge is now red


curling

 

[les]

How will you replace the Kevlar when it burns through?

First, I believe my kevlar is heavier than the recommended weight, so hopefully it won't (also, most of my rockets only get an average of 2.2 flights - I like building but get limited time to fly. At a good launch I'll get 6 ~ 8 rockets flown)
Second, I would revert to an old fashion Estes tri-fold

 

[les]

For the main body, After gluing the wrap on I wrapped with wax paper and used rubber bands to secure until the glue dried.


Unfortunately, the wrap was not perfectly aligned


Red sharpie to the rescue. From 2 feet away no one will notice


NOTE - as of this time I have not glued in the motor mount. I do have the second wrap. I may try again (grab a spare tube, cut to length, and try the spare wrap), but even knowing it is there, I can barely notice it so I may not. Opinions?

 

[Cape Byron]

Build two. Swap the nosecone between them. The cone is the most difficult part of this rocket to source, especially here in Oz where a Baby Bertha is now $35 AUD ($25.50 US).

Build one with the Kevlar on the MMT and one with the Estes Trifold. Report back with your results.

The weight of the wrap paper is important. The wrap is sized to line up when printed on 120 GSM (32 #) paper stock. It's also a 'comfortable' weight to work with. A tip of the hat to Dr Zooch who had the most perfectly sized wraps in his kits. Cut and applied according to the directions they were always spot on. I miss that crazy guy...

I pre-roll the wrap by rolling the entire sheet and placing it inside the body tube (or other of similar diameter) for an hour or so. This makes the wrap harder to cut out, but it does conform well to the tube. No, it doesn't say that in the instructions. Maybe it should.

Some people like to cut out the wrap and then roll it and place inside the body tube. I don't do that personally because I find the edges (especially corners) of the cut wrap gets 'clumsy farmer finger damage'.

Glue is important. (Hooray, a glue discussion!) I recommend a high quality glue stick. 'High quality' is, of course, a subjective descriptor here. I've had good results with UHU. I like the glue stick because I'm not trying to work with a damp wrap after applying white glue. It's also easier to burnish down with the side of your thumb without displacing the wrap.

As always, YMMV.

 

[GlenP]

...I recommend a high quality glue stick...

glue sticks work great on cardstock paper, but might not hold photo paper if it has a coating on the back side.

 

[Cape Byron]

glue sticks work great on cardstock paper, but might not hold photo paper if it has a coating on the back side.

Good point. You can scuff up the back of photo paper with a kitchen scourer (plastic type, not wire wool) for better adhesion.

Spray adhesives give me mixed results and zero chance for correction if poorly placed (see 'clumsy farmer finger damage' above).

I'd go for a good quality gloss print paper and a professional print shop. I get good laser colour prints on glass stock for next to nothing from an office supplier.

 

[user 35280]

First, I believe my kevlar is heavier than the recommended weight, so hopefully it won't (also, most of my rockets only get an average of 2.2 flights - I like building but get limited time to fly. At a good launch I'll get 6 ~ 8 rockets flown)
Second, I would revert to an old fashion Estes tri-fold

I like these motor mounts from Odd’l Rockets, or something similar, as the Kevlar can be replaced after burn through,
https://www.erockets.biz/oddl-rockets-heavy-duty-engine-mount-for-bt-60-odd-hdem60/

 

[brockrwood]

There are many members on the forum who have spoken about plan packs in the past: What’s included?, What should be included?, Is it good value for money?, etc.

I’ve had discussions with people who want to sell plan packs and they ask for my advice. Which is a bit weird, ‘cause I have never sold a plan pack. Yet.

The idea behind this thread is to give people intending to sell or buy a plan pack a feeling for what you get, and even more importantly, what you don’t. From the past few months experience I can say that selling a plan pack is pretty much the same as selling a kit. You still have to do your design and testing, you still have to write and illustrate instructions. You still do the hard yards.

From a seller’s point of view you get to offer your design without committing hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars to inventory. You have the opportunity of getting your design in to more people’s hands (and airspace) because there is little or no shipping cost involved. This is especially important when you’re on the opposite side of the world to most people who want your designs and international postage is a kidney and change.

From a buyer’s point of view you get (hopefully) a well tested design that is (hopefully) something unique at a great price.

Win/Win, hey?

Well, I think it should be.

Enter the Brocket, stage left. A Gooney design based on a racing car. Some people said, “Great. When can I buy one?” Others said nothing.

The original Brocket design was bashed (severely) from an Estes Jetliner kit. Ah that elusive nose cone, so desired by scratch builders everywhere with a desirability slightly less than precious metals and free vintage motorcycles, but unobtainable without buying an Estes kit which contains said nosecone.

Lots of modellers already have said nosecone in their build pile. So... instead of buying Estes kits, gutting them, adding our own parts and then trying to sell our own kits (prolly at a loss by now) we decided to release the Brocket as a plan pack.

I like the name! Excellent choice!