Big Brute clone & 6" Upscale Big Brute build

[marcusSRG]

Well, I was going to wait to post this but I got the 6" nosecone today and I just couldn't resist. So here we go… FYI this won't be an incredibly fast build thread but I plan to keep it updated.

The NCR Big Brute was my first mid powered rocket. I flew it dozens of times until it bit the dust with a bonus delay after a lob on an E28T. I salvaged two fins and vied to rebuild it one day and that day came when I found a perfectly sized length of 6" Uline mailing tube. Why not rebuild the Brute and do an upscale at the same time?! Some quick research revealed that it has the exact same dimensions as PML phenolic tubing and research also revealed that Bobby B at Hangar 11 sells a plastic copy of PML's 6 inch nosecone. SWEET! This is perfect for me as I try to build as economically as possible.

My builds always test some kind of feature for future builds and this one is no exception! Both Brutes will feature upgraded cluster motor mounts (38+(2)24mm & 54+(2)38mm), both will have electronics mounted in the nose cone + adjustable nose weight and both will feature dual deployment with a cable cutter from Archetype. I'm utilizing these features because of the stubby stature of the Big Brute. There is simply no room for traditional dual deployment and I plan to use up to 54/1750 K's in the big one so space is limited! The 6" Brute will further feature a timer bay in the fin can, redundant RRC2 and RRC3 alts and I'm using GLR's ez-glass sock to laminate the airframe. The 4" may get a timer bay as well.

I will start building the original 4" Brute first and I plan to begin the upscale somewhere during that build after I get my fins and rings cut. Construction will commence tomorrow morning.

Attached is a picture of all of the parts. As I said, I just got the nose from Bobby B today and it is beautiful! Even better, it's already glossy black. Now I don't have to worry about spray painting plastic!

Stay tuned!

 

[qquake2k]

That is a gorgeous nose cone!

 

[marcusSRG]

I'm keeping it updated! Although it doesn't look like anyone cares...yet! Baby steps on the 4" Brute today.

Marked the two original for tab cutting.. They're going 38mm and I'll be cutting two more very soon. The originals are flying again though. I think I'll leave the globby yellow epoxy fillets for nostalgia's sake--that was my first pack of epoxy...ever!!!!


Next I cut the 4" tube to length and marked my motor tubes for cutting. The ring in the photo was a splice of 4" I used to measure my cutting line. All tubes will be cut to 9" to accommodate many 38mm cases and longer 29mm cases. Cut was based on a 29/240 case. I'm also set on putting a timer mount between two of the fins w/an access hatch.


Next will be more tube cutting, motor mount gluing and fin cutting!

That is a gorgeous nose cone!

Why thank you! Here's a couple more glamour shots!!

 

[fyrwrxz]

Three words, Marcus:
Major. Nosecone. Envy.

 

[patelldp]

Oh, we all care. A little bit. But we care. Kind of.

Now you have my attention with the nosecone...a two piece plastic nosecone with a pretty goofy looking shoulder. Did you purchase this recently? Any idea what the price is?

My dad's first mid power rocket was an NCR Big Brute. All that is original on it at this point is the fincan, as it had an unfortunate run in with the ground during a less than optimal flight on an F22J. It's now stretched slightly, has the leading root edges of the fins snapped off, and an ACME nosecone. Flies GREAT on H128W's (his L1 flight), H165R's, and G64W's. Looking forward to this build, and please post any design files you may have of the original!

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Dan I may be mistaken , but the cone looks like the ones that Bobby B. sells ( Hangar 11 ) .

Eric

 

[patelldp]

Dan I may be mistaken , but the cone looks like the ones that Bobby B. sells ( Hangar 11 ) .

Eric

Correct. I was unable to find it on his site. I'm not interested in buying one at this time, hence my not reaching out to him.

 

[marcusSRG]

Oh, we all care. A little bit. But we care. Kind of.

Now you have my attention with the nosecone...a two piece plastic nosecone with a pretty goofy looking shoulder. Did you purchase this recently? Any idea what the price is?

Haha, thanks for caring Dan! Price was in the $70s.... Total price with shipping was $89 and change I believe. I do not have the figures in front of me.

No simulation data yet. The computer I have Rocksim on is down. But I know the basic design is stable and I made room for adjustable nose weight considering the larger motors and outboards. I'll do a Sim when I can.

 

[dixontj93060]

Haha, thanks for caring Dan! Price was in the $70s.... Total price with shipping was $89 and change I believe. I do not have the figures in front of me.

No simulation data yet. The computer I have Rocksim on is down. But I know the basic design is stable and I made room for adjustable nose weight considering the larger motors and outboards. I'll do a Sim when I can.

Dan is right on the Hangar-11 nosecones. Can be fragile. On my 6" X-15 I subbed out the plastic shoulder for a longer section of PML phenolic which fit both the cone and airframe much better. I also lined the inside of the new shoulder and about halfway up the cone with heavy 10oz Kevlar fabric. The fore end of the nosecone has a tracker / variable weight subcompartment and around that is 2-part foam. Needless to say, the nosecone is now solid and to my liking, before, not too much.

 

[marcusSRG]

Dan is right on the Hangar-11 nosecones. Can be fragile. On my 6" X-15 I subbed out the plastic shoulder for a longer section of PML phenolic which fit both the cone and airframe much better. I also lined the inside of the new shoulder and about halfway up the cone with heavy 10oz Kevlar fabric. The fore end of the nosecone has a tracker / variable weight subcompartment and around that is 2-part foam. Needless to say, the nosecone is now solid and to my liking, before, not too much.

Good stuff, thank you. I am going to discard the plastic shoulder. I was already planning on using a phenolic coupler and I have thought about foam. Probably will use that now.

 

[T-Rex]

The only nosecone I see is the one for the X-15 and the description says it has a molded in cockpit, is that the one?

 

[dixontj93060]

The only nosecone I see is the one for the X-15 and the description says it has a molded in cockpit, is that the one?

I think the 6" cone can be molded with or without the cockpit insert.

 

[marcusSRG]

I think the 6" cone can be molded with or without the cockpit insert.

Yep.

 

[T-Rex]

coolness... Thanx!!!!!

 

[marcusSRG]

Progress on the 4" Brute today. Had a nice random weekday off so I went to work! I also decided against the timer bay in the fin can. If I really want to do airstarts I can rig an external conduit and fit all I need in the nosecone. Anyway...

First I went over to my fiancée's folks house where her father, a professional artist and wood craftsman, has his shop, complete with a lovely bandsaw Since I'm going 38mm+(2)24mm, we first cut back the thru-the-wall fin tabs on the 2 original fins and then cut two copies and an altimeter mounting board.


After a quick trip to Home Depot it was time to do some assembly! Since it was such a nice day I brought my new trusty Hobbico cutting board and my gluing board down to the living room from my 'rocket loft', which can be a bit cold and dark, depending on weather.


First I drilled a 1/4" hole for the eyebolt I just bought at HD.


Next I cut down my 38mm motor tube, marked my rings, cut and peeled the glassine off on these areas and attached my bottom two rings. Yes, it's short but I'll be using generally shorter motors and my top CR has to be that low to lock the fin tabs in. Next I attached the top ring and tacked the fins down, two at a time.


Next I slid my 24mm tubing into each 24mm hole and marked/cut each one to length, then marked the main BT for fin slots.


Then I cut TERRIBLE fin slots. No pics. At first the mmt/fin unit fit 'OK', but when I tried to widen some if the slots for a better fit I widened one or two of them too far on the wrong side. This essentially caused the mmt/fin unit to fit just as bad but with some big gnarly gaps in the slots, if that makes sense. Basically NOT PRETTY! Y'all don't get to see that but here's a shot of the dry fit of the mmt/fin assembly...from the best side!


It looks pretty good from this angle but the other sides are bad and would require lots of filler at the external fin joints. I have some extra LOC 3.9" tube so I'll do a re-do on the slots.

Next up is cutting new, better slots, gluing 24mm tubes, fin joints and finally the mmt/fin assy into the airframe and then starting work on the fancy nosecone electronics bay I have planned for this thing.

Real construction on the 6" Brute will commence soon...I have some custom rings and coupler pieces on the way from Dave at Red Arrow Hobbies.

 

[marcusSRG]

Lots of progress since the last post! The 4" Brute is nearing completion.

First I epoxied in my 24mm outboards and applied full epoxy to the fin joints and mmt (previously just 'tacked down' with 5min epoxy). Also I cut new, better fin slots.


Next I cut and epoxied all of the components for my nosecone mounted 38mm eBay--two 38mm bulkheads glued into 1/4" long coupler splices and (1) 1/2" long ring of 3.9" coupler to get the proper airframe length. I also cut the shoulder off of the 3.9" ACE nose (from an old G-force) and cut holes for and mounted recovery/cable cutter mounting hardware on the 3.9"-38mm CR for the nosecone bulk plate. Next I epoxied these components as needed and CAed the coupler into the nose cone. Next I filled a jar of ice water, inverted and submerged the nose in the ice bath and epoxied in the 38mm e-bay tube into the cone. The ice water prevents the plastic nose from deforming as the epoxy cures and heats. After it began curing, I epoxied the bulk plate to the coupler/38mm tube. Then I cut the 38mm tube down and I also epoxied the mmt/fin unit into the airframe.


Next I attached mounting all thread to my 38mm fwd bulk plate and epoxied it into the top of the 38mm tube, using the aft bulkhead to align it. Next I drilled and epoxied my altimeter vent hole, and finally I mounted my new RRC2+ to my electronics sled and set up the aft 38mm bulk plate with (2) wired terminal blocks. I also threw together (2) 29mm-38mm adapters, one of which will be used on the first flight this weekend on an H97J!!!


Next up: filling, painting, prep and flight!

 

[Hangar11]

Hi All

Yes the Black NC is available from Hangar 11. with or w/o a molded in cockpit.

https://hangar11.com/6-inch-hpr-nose-cone-with-coupler.html

s/b on the website www.hangar11.com if you cannot find it contact me at

[email protected] or call 845-926-1959

As for the " Funky Shoulder " It is made from the same durable plastic as the NC.. super strong...
Only use this is you want something that will not break.... You can sub in a standard phenolic coupler.

BTW I have some NEW / lightly used 75mm 7600 class motors and cases.... 2 Aerotech 1 Loki 1 Gorilla 1 AMW.
Interested parties please call....

Regards to all.

Bobby B
Hangar 11

 

[Devontmp]

Looking good.Hope to see it fly.Keep a watch on ROCC site,crops may not be off yet.

 

[marcusSRG]

Looking good.Hope to see it fly.Keep a watch on ROCC site,crops may not be off yet.

I know:-/ I will be watching the website and Facebook page like a hawk! I hope to have some paint on this and get it up on an H97J. It will use an archetype cable cutter for dual deploy. But that's the smallest thing I have planned… My ultimate is loaded up with a central H135W and (6)D12s and my 5.5" Phoenix will be going up on a Dark Matter sparky cluster: (1) DMS I280DM and (2) H178DMs.

Weather also looks iffy...if it's a no-go I'll be patient!

 

[marcusSRG]

She's (he's?) pretty much done now! I filled my fin joints with Elmer's Max wood putty, then thinned some out with water and 'painted' the airframe with the thinned filler. Then I sanded and sanded and sanded....and sanded, first with 100grit then 300 grit. I don't get too crazy with it. Then a nice coat of Krylon classic gray primer/paint combo. It's all Wal-Mart had. Let it dry, sanded the couple drips out with some 320 grit and recoated the body with gray and did Krylon fusion black on the nose. I like the primer/paint combo stuff. I left the original paint and decals on the 2 original fins for nostalgias sake. I pulled the painters tape off of those and voila! I now have a new Big Brute!!!! All it needs is rail guides, some Monokote/decals and prep/flight!


I anticipated to have the 150% upscale started by now but an address mixup resulted in several parts arriving late. Construction on the big'un starts soon!

 

[qquake2k]

The paint turned out really nice!

 

[marcusSRG]

The paint turned out really nice!

Thanks. The paint came out so well that I kinda want to paint the two original fins buuuut I think I like leaving them as they were.

 

[patelldp]

How's that 6" Brute coming?