3D Printing Better ABS filament?

[Zyzzyva1000]

I have been mostly printing in ABS recently, and have honestly had pretty good success with it (and I know some smaller companies like radical rocketry or Boyce aerospace) use ABS for their kits. For Christmas I was gifted 2 kits from Boyce, and I realized the ABS they use seems to be 'better'. I actually asked Alex about this, and he said it's a special filament they get by the pallet from China (prints at a higher temp and is more ductile and impact resistant). Just from handling the parts its clear this material is different (and certainly feels more ductile).

I have tried out several ABS + or ABS pro options and while they all work, none are nearly as nice as what Boyce aerospace uses. Just curious if anyone has investigated any more unique ABS options? I debated CF ABS as a possible solution to combat warping, but with a small space heater and Flashforge ABS (I have a flash forge printer, someone the two just work well together) I have pretty much eliminated the warping/layer separation issue. But just seeing what Alex can do with his special ABS has made me wonder what else is out there.

 

[Rschub]

I have a couple rolls of ASA that I want to try, I do not have any experience personally with it yet.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

I have a couple rolls of ASA that I want to try, I do not have any experience personally with it yet.

I have tried ASA (I got a roll of CF-ASA for free actually), it was ok. A bit harder to print. I am hoping to upgrade to something larger than can go to 300 on the hot end soon, so may try some other things soon. I Also tried a PC (ie Lexan) blend that similarly was a bit harder to print. Both seemed to be fairly strong, but somewhat brittle. This ABS Boyce uses is definitely much more ductile, which seems like it would be an advantage for things like fins (so they don't break hitting hard ground). I recently made the 4 inch Pershing 1A using all ABS (other than body and motor tubes). I flew well on an I180, so clearly the ABS I have is working ok, I am just enamored with the idea that there is something that seems so much better out there.

 

[0011001100]

What temperature are you printing it at? Your issues sound like it is being printed too cold.

I manage the print farm at my job (though not for much longer) and we use ~16kg of ABS-FR a week.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

What temperature are you printing it at? Your issues sound like it is being printed too cold.

I manage the print farm at my job (though not for much longer) and we use ~16kg of ABS-FR a week.

Definitely possible, I can only get up to 265 (though this is technically within the print temp specs for all the filaments)

 

[cwbullet]

I have tried ASA (I got a roll of CF-ASA for free actually), it was ok. A bit harder to print. I am hoping to upgrade to something larger than can go to 300 on the hot end soon, so may try some other things soon. I Also tried a PC (ie Lexan) blend that similarly was a bit harder to print. Both seemed to be fairly strong, but somewhat brittle. This ABS Boyce uses is definitely much more ductile, which seems like it would be an advantage for things like fins (so they don't break hitting hard ground). I recently made the 4 inch Pershing 1A using all ABS (other than body and motor tubes). I flew well on an I180, so clearly the ABS I have is working ok, I am just enamored with the idea that there is something that seems so much better out there.

The temperature is similar to standard ASA, but make sure you have a hardened nozzle.

 

[JohnCoker]

I had some adhesion problems with ASA (Banbu X1C), so I cleaned the plate and put on a generous coating of glue stick. Now I'm just waiting for a dry day to try again.

I'm happy with ABS, but it makes sense to try ASA as well. But if it's more difficult to print then I'll stick with ABS (and Nylon).

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

The temperature is similar to standard ASA, but make sure you have a hardened nozzle.

Yea I have a hardened nozzle, I know I am pushing what my little machine can do. Hopefully there is an upgrade in my future. But what I really want to figure out is if its possible to get ahold of similar filament to what Boyce Aerospace uses.

 

[0011001100]

Definitely possible, I can only get up to 265 (though this is technically within the print temp specs for all the filaments)

265 should be enough for ABS (not ABS-PC blends though). What kind of volumetric speeds are you printing at? If you print too fast the core of the filament won't get hot enough and can also cause similar issues. It could also be a consistent under-extrusion that leaves it feeling more brittle.

 

[JohnCoker]

Still not having luck with ASA. Even with brims, I'm having adhesion problems resulting in poor top surface spots. I guess the next thing to try is hairspray, but ABS is looking better all the time.

 

[cwbullet]

Still not having luck with ASA. Even with brims, I'm having adhesion problems resulting in poor top surface spots. I guess the next thing to try is hairspray, but ABS is looking better all the time.

View attachment 622313

That looks wet. Did you pre-dry it?

 

[n3tjm]

That looks wet. Did you pre-dry it?

I agree. I never used ADA, but with filaments I have used, seeing that usually means the roll need a date with the dryer.

 

[cwbullet]

I agree. I never used ADA, but with filaments I have used, seeing that usually means the roll need a date with the dryer.

Yup. A dryer is essential for ABS, ADA, and Nylon. Also, anything that has carbon fiber added.

 

[JohnCoker]

Yup. A dryer is essential for ABS, ADA, and Nylon. Also, anything that has carbon fiber added.

It's a brand-new roll and humidity is low here, but I will try drying it out.

 

[cwbullet]

It's a brand-new roll and humidity is low here, but I will try drying it out.

On my Bambu X1C, I have had to use some hair spray occasionally. I also have had some adhesion issues. Sometimes, drying helps. Sometimes I have to add hair spray. Hairspray can also help protect the bed by adding a release layer.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

Will revisit this in a few weeks. Had a bunch of amazon credit from doing some surveys, and a QIDI Xmax3 accidentally made its way into my cart. I have no real interested in multi color printing, and like the idea of the heated chamber (also can't get a Bambu printer with amazon credits). Have some of their fast printing ABS as well as their GF-ABS on the way. Will try with the CF ASA and the PC blend in the new printer. Also my print volume literally just went up by a full order of magnitude - can't wait to crank out some giant prints.

 

[cwbullet]

I am trying to print a new roll of ABS on my X1C. Warps like heck.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

I am trying to print a new roll of ABS on my X1C. Warps like heck.

With my current printer I generally had to make some changes to not get bad warping (this was somewhat improved using flash forge abs pro). Generally had to turn off all fans, print slowly, for fins I would always use a raft, and often would run a small space heater blowing into my print chamber). I am hoping that this QIDI printer will be an improvement since its designed to print these types of filaments.

 

[cwbullet]

With my current printer I generally had to make some changes to not get bad warping (this was somewhat improved using flash forge abs pro). Generally had to turn off all fans, print slowly, for fins I would always use a raft, and often would run a small space heater blowing into my print chamber). I am hoping that this QIDI printer will be an improvement since its designed to print these types of filaments.

My MK4 just works. I will try the new filament on it. I may have to tinker more with the X1C.

 

[cwbullet]

I have had a few days of terrible prints with a single roll of ASA. The front edge on the X1C and Prusa mini are orange pealing. I will try the Mk4 tomorrow.

 

[cwbullet]

It's a brand-new roll and humidity is low here, but I will try drying it out.

One other thing, I have found recently is that some brands ABS and ASA (I can't say all brands) are terrible for printing large objects. Some simple warp anytime you print something that is think. I have one roll that I will only print think small objects. Even then, I always use hairspray to keep warping down.

 

[JohnCoker]

I haven't had any problems with ABS on any printer, but am having a terrible time with ASA on the X1C. Drying it out didn't make a difference and while it seems like the adhesion is OK, I get a very rough top surface (as seen in the picture above).

 

[cwbullet]

I haven't had any problems with ABS on any printer, but am having a terrible time with ASA on the X1C. Drying it out didn't make a difference and while it seems like the adhesion is OK, I get a very rough top surface (as seen in the picture above).

Check to see if there is any warping on the edges before you detach. a small amount of warping can create "orange peal" distortions to the top surface.

 

[cwbullet]

I haven't had any problems with ABS on any printer, but am having a terrible time with ASA on the X1C. Drying it out didn't make a difference and while it seems like the adhesion is OK, I get a very rough top surface (as seen in the picture above).

Just an update on my testing. Before the last few days, most of what I printed with ABS was printed with Prusament ABS. I printed several items since your post. No matter what printer I use, I get quality issues with ABS when it is a thick or tall print. Thick prints warp a little and get rough top surfaces. Thin prints, I do not get any issues with them unless they are 5-7 CMs or taller. When they are tall, I get cracks in the surface.

I have no issues with ABS as long as adhesion is maintained and I do not get severe warping.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

So I decided to try the Qidi filament in my new printer (figure it can't hurt to use the manufacturer's filament to at least get things dialed in). I have been super impressed thus far. Their 'rapido ABS' (meant for higher speed printing with ABS) has been great thus far. It prints a little hotter (270, 95 bed) and with the heater chamber I have had zero issues with warping. I even printed some large fins upright with very little contact area (And a 5 mm brim) and had no issues (using the stock textured PEI bed). Currently doing all the parts for a 3" honest John. Still haven't tried out the high temp/hardened hot end that was included but right now I am very happy with just regular ABS. This stuff is definitely closer in feel to what comes with the Boyce kits (has some nice ductility while still being light weight). Definitely not the cheapest filament but it prints nicely and allows me to print 6 times faster (300 mm/s instead of 50 mm/s) compared to my old flashforge.