# best pyrogen

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#### SpartaChris

##### Well-Known Member
so i have seen several different brands of pyrogen out there. who makes the best pyrogen and why?

-Chris

#### n3tjm

##### Papa Elf
Magnelite - Why? Igniters have never gone bad.... I have seen pyrogen (and pre-made e-matches) go bad with a year or less of storage. I still use Magnelites that I have dipped years ago, and they work fine. Also, shelf life of the solution. A bottle of pyrogen can last years, and if it drys out... just add more acetone. Reliability. 99.9% of my rockets took off first try with a magnelite in them.

#### Johnnie

##### Well-Known Member
Ditto on the Magnelite.

Just to add to what Doug said if I may:

1) open air ground tests show that the magnelite is very aggressive, in that it burns HOT for more than a second or two, and spreads sparks like crazy...this sparky effect really helps insure that composites will light quickly and reliably.

2) How many igniters have you paid a dollar or more for? I bought my kit in 1999 and I bet I have made 200 igniters for all size motors to include 76mm. From any individual that sells igniters for $1 or more, this investment has been at least a$200 savings. I originaly paid $35 for my kit, and could probably make another 500 igniters easily. I take the winter building season and make up about 50 igniters. It generaly take me all day to do so from setting the wires up, to all the different dipping procedures...well worth it in my opinion. good luck. #### illini ##### Well-Known Member What do you guys use for wires with the Magnelite? Do you buy the "pre-made" wires from Rocketflite, or something else off the shelf? I'm thinking of wires for the E-G range of motors here. #### Johnnie ##### Well-Known Member I found a building under construction where they had just installed the buildings phone system. There was a lifetime supply of igniter/telephone wires everywhere. I use solid wire, maybe 22ga to 24ga. Just pair them up, attach one end to a nail, and the other in a cordless drill, pull the trigger and twist them up. Wala, igniter leads. #### rbeckey ##### Well-Known Member For G and larger, I use Cat5 computer networking cable. It is 24 ga. and made of 4 twisted pairs of wires. If you make 6 inch ignitors, a foot of cable gives you 8 of them. The pairs are already twisted together, so you don't have that extra step. For F and smaller I use 26 ga. wire from Radio Shack. That I do have to twist, but that is no big deal for the amounts I need. I use Magnalite pyrogen. It is easy to mix and use, has an indefinite shelf life as long as you add more acetone, and burns like the devil. I tested a few of my own ignitors, and even the small ones burn for almost a full second. I could feel the heat from four feet away. They have never failed to light a motor the first time. #### rstaff3 ##### Oddroc-eteer Magnelite here also. I use Magnelite wires and 30ga TP gapped with Igniterman pyrogen. I've also used wire found at the pads. #### illini ##### Well-Known Member Where do you get Magnelite other than directly from Rocketflite? I checked some of his linked vendors and they don't have it listed. #### rstaff3 ##### Oddroc-eteer I got mine direct from the source. #### n3tjm ##### Papa Elf Public Missiles, Performance Hobbies, and Countdown Hobbies should have it. Nothing wrong from ordering from the source either. They have quick and reliable service. I order from them all the time. I buy their wires, and make my own. I also dip crapperheads and solar igniters. I made the perfect igniters for D13's . #### Mad Rocketeer ##### Well-Known Member Any worries about storing the mixed pyrogen or the dipped igniters? Seems like they'd be a possible fire hazard, given how agressively they burn. What is an asset at the launch pad could be a disaster if ignited somehow in a range box in the closet. Twisting the free ends of the igniters together for storage is an obvious precaution, to prevent static charges from causing ignition. Anything else? Mini-magazines? #### n3tjm ##### Papa Elf As long as you don't smoke, or use in the vicinity of any heat sourse, you will be fine. Same with storeing. I keep mine in a metal toolbox I use as my range box. There are really no need to twist the leads on Magnelite igniters. They are high enough current that normal static buildup is not an issue. Daveyfires dipped in magnelite on the otherhand... twist the leads... but usually they do that for you #### SpartaChris ##### Well-Known Member Perhaps this is a dumb question, but is magnelite used instead of a blackpowder type substance, or is it designed to serve as a coating over a blackpowder type substance to give it a little extra ooomph? For example, would you dip Aerotechs First Fire igniters or maybe an E-match in magnelite? Or could/would you use magnelite as the only flammable substance if you are making your own igniters? Thanks for the help. I know it is kind of a n00b question... -Chis #### Johnnie ##### Well-Known Member For composites, Magnelite is a multi-step process. It is dipped in a conductive primer, a sealer, the pyrogen, a sealer, and then left to dry. If you stopped at the conductive primer, you could use the igniters ti light small BP motors, but for composites you continue on to the pyrogen step. In theory yes, you could "double-dip" any commercially made igniter in the magnelite product, but there would be no real need to. I would stay away from using ematches for igniters, as they are low current and ignite very easy...unless of course you were clustering, where low current igniters are great for clustering and airstarts. If you do use ematches, keep the ends twisted together until ready to use, and do not install the igniter till you get to the pad, which I believe is standard practice. For what we do, the only dumb questions are the ones that don't get asked... Oh and don't take my word for it, as I have been known to be wrong. I am just passing along what I think I know. #### Stymye ##### Well-Known Member so far good results with the Firefox pyrogen, the kit is$7.00
heres one being tested from my first batch

#### Johnnie

##### Well-Known Member
ouch, I think I see spots now after looking at that picture...I'm blind...

That looked to be one hot igniter stymye...nice shot

...ok, spots going away now, I can see again.

#### DumasBro2

##### Well-Known Member
Johnnie,
Magnalite is a one step dip process, in fact double dipping is not (or at least wasnt) recommended. What you are describing is a conductive pyrogen that doesnt use a bridge wire in the igniter. Im not sure of the brand off hand.

steve

#### Johnnie

##### Well-Known Member
Dumasbro2,

That is what I discribed, conductive primer dip, then the pyrogen dip.

My instructions say that if you are just igniting BP, then stop at the conductive primer phase, if you are igniting Composites, then continue on to the pyrogen dip phase. Hince the multi-step:

conductive primer --> sealer --> pyrogen --> sealer

#### DumasBro2

##### Well-Known Member
OK, I thought you were describing the Magnalite process which is not a conductive pyrogen.

steve

#### bsexton

##### Well-Known Member
Performance Hobbies is now carrying Hellfire pyrogen. Don't know any details but this is supposed to be some really "hot stuff".

#### Fuddrucker

##### Well-Known Member
Magnalite here also!

I have made over 100 so far and still have enough left to do several hundred more. I have used 10 or so myself and have yet to see one fail. I have even sold about 30 of them at local launches and have had no complaints. So far so good!

...Fudd

#### wwattles

##### Well-Known Member
I'm using Igniterman (yes, it's hard to find) and have had 100% success so far. Granted, the largest motors they've been used on are J's, but even those came up to pressure in a hurry and had no problems.

And unlike Magnelite, multiple dips in the pyrogen are allowed!

WW

#### n3tjm

##### Papa Elf
Originally posted by wwattles
And unlike Magnelite, multiple dips in the pyrogen are allowed!
You can double dip Magnelites. I do it all the time. Firestars on the other hand, you can not double dip. They will pop instead of burn when you do that.