AC Supply - No more discount?

[4regt4]

Was shopping for some Estes kits, did my usual of researching them on the Estes site, then go to AC Supplies to actually order.

With a few individual exceptions, all Estes kits and motors are shown at list price. Wondering if this is a lingering issue from the April Fools joke (except it wasn't a joke....) where Estes requires list price advertising, I placed a few items in my Cart. They are still shown at full retail. I didn't want to risk going through the checkout procedure to see if a discount magically appears, as I might accidentally end up with an order at a price I don't want.

Anyone buy from them in the last few days?

Hans.

Edit: I see that Quest products are shown as discounted. Maybe AC is pivoting away from Estes toward Quest? Would seem odd, though, as Estes is the 800# gorilla.

 

[cwbullet]

There are definitely less discounts on Estes.

 

[Mooreshire]

Yep, looks like AC Supply raised their prices back up to MAP again.
I placed my last order three days ago (11/1/23) and paid $53.89 for a Saturn 1B kit.
Today (11/4/2023) the price for that kit is back up to $76.99.

 

[Brent]

Check out https://bellevillehobby.com/

 

[cwbullet]

Check out https://bellevillehobby.com/

Agreed but make sure you include shipping before you decide.

 

[burkefj]

Was shopping for some Estes kits, did my usual of researching them on the Estes site, then go to AC Supplies to actually order.

With a few individual exceptions, all Estes kits and motors are shown at list price. Wondering if this is a lingering issue from the April Fools joke (except it wasn't a joke....) where Estes requires list price advertising, I placed a few items in my Cart. They are still shown at full retail. I didn't want to risk going through the checkout procedure to see if a discount magically appears, as I might accidentally end up with an order at a price I don't want.

Anyone buy from them in the last few days?

Hans.

Edit: I see that Quest products are shown as discounted. Maybe AC is pivoting away from Estes toward Quest? Would seem odd, though, as Estes is the 800# gorilla.

You have to be logged into your account and then go to your cart and there is a "use coupon" option and use ac99 I just tried and it showed the following:

 

[4regt4]

Ah, OK. Thanks.

I bet they lose a lot of business unless this gets more well known.

Hans.

 

[BEC]

I expect that they were reminded about the minimum advertised price (MAP) policy that Estes imposed last April 1st. Right afterward that coupon code that Frank mentions above was sent to existing customers (on April 13th), but shortly after that they started showing the reduced prices openly and I wondered if that MAP thing had gone away. But I guess not. It was about then that AC started carrying Quest and Aerotech stuff, too — also discounted.

I did the same thing Frank did today — a test to see if the AC99 code worked — and it does.

 

[bad_idea]

Most retailers seem to have dropped MAP soon after Estes imposed it. Mayhap Estes are trying to crack the whip again.

Really I should be grateful for Estes MAP since that seems to have been what led AC Supply to carry Quest, and 30% off E35s is as very sweet deal.

 

[DocSeuss]

Looks like AC99 no longer works

 

[CalebJ]

Looks like AC99 no longer works

I just tested it and it works. Were you logged in when you tried to apply it?

 

[bad_idea]

I just tested it and it works. Were you logged in when you tried to apply it?

Indeed, this is from Doug's recent email:

If you order online, to get the very best pricing, we have a coupon code, AC99, which will also get the same great price as our quotes. This code is placed in the shopping cart. In order for this code to work, you must be logged into your account, If you don’t have an account, go ahead and create one, Its free and we do not sell or offer our accounts to anyone!. Try testing the coupon code to see what it gets you.

 

[DocSeuss]

I just tested it and it works. Were you logged in when you tried to apply it?

lmao, I thought I was, but I was not! Thank you. I'm a dummy.

 

[bad_idea]

lmao, I thought I was, but I was not! Thank you. I'm a dummy.

Happens to us all.

 

[deangelo54]

You don't have to have a degree in Business (I do) to figure out that this process is going to cost AC Supply a LOT of business. There are plenty of other vendors out there that I can shop with. BTW, the code AC99 still works if you login to AC Supply.

How did people know about this process in the first place?

 

[CalebJ]

You don't have to have a degree in Business (I do) to figure out that this process is going to cost AC Supply a LOT of business. There are plenty of other vendors out there that I can shop with. BTW, the code AC99 still works if you login to AC Supply.

How did people know about this process in the first place?

ACSupply sent out an email explaining the process.

 

[burkefj]

You don't have to have a degree in Business (I do) to figure out that this process is going to cost AC Supply a LOT of business. There are plenty of other vendors out there that I can shop with. BTW, the code AC99 still works if you login to AC Supply.

How did people know about this process in the first place?

None of the other vendors can advertise less than map price either. There were a couple of threads on the rocketry forum about this and they sent out an email and I think there was something on their website as well.

 

[Scott_650]

None of the other vendors can advertise less than map price either. There were a couple of threads on the rocketry forum about this and they sent out an email and I think there was something on their website as well.

Evidently neither Belleville Hobby nor Hobbylinc ever got the memo from Estes…discounted prices are right there on the model rocketry product pages for all to see plus Hobbylinc regularly announces discounts on Estes products in their periodic emails…

 

[deangelo54]

I have been an AC Supply customer for as long as I can remember. I do not recall receiving an email from them. This is really a weird situation that can only serve to hurt vendors and Estes themselves. Maybe it's me but I cannot understand the logic behind this policy. I never heard of anyone else ever doing this sort of thing. Any explanations or opinions are welcome.

 

[mh9162013]

I have been an AC Supply customer for as long as I can remember. I do not recall receiving an email from them. This is really a weird situation that can only serve to hurt vendors and Estes themselves. Maybe it's me but I cannot understand the logic behind this policy. I never heard of anyone else ever doing this sort of thing. Any explanations or opinions are welcome.

Companies having a MAP policy isn't rare at all.

I believe this is especially common with companies that sell products that are differentiated based on their quality (or perceived quality). SureFire that makes flashlights does this (or at least used to).

As for Estes, I don't know if the "quality-perception" reason applies, but I'm sure they crunched the numbers and figured they'd still come out ahead with this new pricing policy.

 

[CalebJ]

I have been an AC Supply customer for as long as I can remember. I do not recall receiving an email from them. This is really a weird situation that can only serve to hurt vendors and Estes themselves. Maybe it's me but I cannot understand the logic behind this policy. I never heard of anyone else ever doing this sort of thing. Any explanations or opinions are welcome.

There may have been more than one, but I received a message from AC Supply on 11/14 with the subject 'Rocketry PRICING update from AC Supply'. Among other things, it contains this:

First for the not so exciting news, Some of our Manufacturers have gone to Minimum Advertised Pricing or MAP which only allows us to advertise at MSRP Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price on our website. You will have noticed these changes in the last couple of weeks. We have to abide to be able to continue to supply our customers with all of their fantastic products. Now we do still offer great pricing on all of our lines and have to do what we can to keep everyone happy. Even with the MAP priced items, we just can’t advertise them.

Our goal is to give the very best pricing everywhere we can, whether it be for teachers, group leaders, or individuals. Money is tight and we want it to go as far as possible for you. With that said, there are ways that we are allowed to give the very best prices we can. If you need a quote to get the very best pricing, you may email us @ [email protected], or call 800-536-0238.

If you order online, to get the very best pricing, we have a coupon code, AC99, which will also get the same great price as our quotes. This code is placed in the shopping cart. In order for this code to work, you must be logged into your account, If you don’t have an account, go ahead and create one, Its free and we do not sell or offer our accounts to anyone!. Try testing the coupon code to see what it gets you.

 

[Initiator001]

On the AC Supply website now if you put an Estes item into your shopping cart it will automatically display the discounted price of the item.

 

[BEC]

Yup, saw that last night. All the Estes items (and some others which are showing a discount anyway, like Custom rockets) say to put them in the cart. Logging into an account is not required any more. Also, code AC99 is now expired. I tried that, too.

 

[Art Upton]

CRS is showing direct discounts, MSRP slashed out and in red the discount price. But not for the great gob or the Black Brant XII.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

CRS is showing direct discounts, MSRP slashed out and in red the discount price. But not for the great gob or the Black Brant XII.

Give me a minute and I'll fix that.... temporarily anyway.

 

[cwbullet]

They have to make a profit.

 

[BRS Hobbies]

Does this mean the Estes MAP policy has been rescinded?

 

[SolarYellow]

It is. We had to sign a new agreement and they will refuse to sell to use if we violate. I have to get my site prices fixed in the next few days. By the way, a coupon code violates the policy now too....

Their policy is you cannot advertise below the MSRP list. Not allowed to do coupons, flyers, or any kind of printed material. Web-based sales must be at MSRP, with no exceptions. The only time we can deviate from that is if they are running a sale on a product, then we can match. Supposedly, we're going to be notified about those this year. On site is a different story, as that is considered my storefront and I can do whatever I would like. So my pricing in the trailer will stay as is, just website won't be able to have it.

Not to start any disagreement/debate with Chris (just got my mule tape this morning!), but there are a couple points here that some quick study in Google Law School (IANAL) suggests may be problematic.

The existence of an agreement, depending on how it is worded, may constitute a collusion situation.

It's also not clear that it's legal to restrict the pricing through one channel, such as the web, while allowing sales via other channels at any price. It's possible that if web sales are allowed, there must be some mechanism to allow them to be completed at whatever price the seller and buyer can come to an agreement on.

In my previous experience with MAP policies, the executives of my then-employer said that if a reseller was doing what ACSupply is currently doing, i.e., having the buyer put it in their cart, then the price could be anything and there was nothing a MAP policy could do about it. The reason was that it was no longer a matter of advertised price. The buyer had taken specific action directed toward purchasing the item, and thereby begun a process of negotiation with the seller.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out, and whether anyone with skin in the game lawyers up to challenge it. Of course, if there are even the shakiest legal grounds for challenging this, it's possible some rando attorney may decide he or she has nothing better to do than try to scrape together a class action civil suit.

Will be interesting to watch.

 

[ShadowSpire48]

Not to start any disagreement/debate with Chris (just got my mule tape this morning!), but there are a couple points here that some quick study in Google Law School (IANAL) suggests may be problematic.

The existence of an agreement, depending on how it is worded, may constitute a collusion situation.

It's also not clear that it's legal to restrict the pricing through one channel, such as the web, while allowing sales via other channels at any price. It's possible that if web sales are allowed, there must be some mechanism to allow them to be completed at whatever price the seller and buyer can come to an agreement on.

In my previous experience with MAP policies, the executives of my then-employer said that if a reseller was doing what ACSupply is currently doing, i.e., having the buyer put it in their cart, then the price could be anything and there was nothing a MAP policy could do about it. The reason was that it was no longer a matter of advertised price. The buyer had taken specific action directed toward purchasing the item, and thereby begun a process of negotiation with the seller.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out, and whether anyone with skin in the game lawyers up to challenge it. Of course, if there are even the shakiest legal grounds for challenging this, it's possible some rando attorney may decide he or she has nothing better to do than try to scrape together a class action civil suit.

Will be interesting to watch.

I think if Estes goes further down this hole they've dug themselves into within the past year, it could spell an outcome they don't want. Instead of fighting over discounts, Estes could save money by not shipping kits to and from China twice and packaging kits here in the US. Plastic parts come here from there, Estes adds the tubes and then sends it back there to be packaged and then back here again for selling.

 

[Initiator001]

I think if Estes goes further down this hole they've dug themselves into within the past year, it could spell an outcome they don't want. Instead of fighting over discounts, Estes could save money by not shipping kits to and from China twice and packaging kits here in the US. Plastic parts come here from there, Estes adds the tubes and then sends it back there to be packaged and then back here again for selling.

The only parts Estes sends to the Peoples Republic of China (PRC) are body tubes.
The plastic and wood parts, packaging, instructions and decals are all made in the PRC. The kits are assembled and packaged in China.
After that thousands of each kit are shipped in containers to America.

If it was cheaper to do the whole process here in the USA then Estes would do it.