AC Supply Prices

[Woody's Workshop]

I went to AC Supply earlier today to put an order together for some missing items in my build pile fleet.
I guess they are no longer selling 40% off MSRP?
Many of the kits were darn close to some of my other favorite vendors prices.
It was kind of a shock to see they increased their prices so much.

 

[Bill S]

There were price increases from Estes, plus that "free shipping" has gone up quite a lot in price, so I while I am not really happy that they had to raise their prices, its understandable. Most things are going up in price quite a lot, so this is not surprising at all.

 

[OverTheTop]

I managed to get an order in before the 40%-off went away. It still cost me $150 for postage of the box to Oz . I believe the discount is now more like 1/3.

 

[cwbullet]

I went to AC Supply earlier today to put an order together for some missing items in my build pile fleet.
I guess they are no longer selling 40% off MSRP?
Many of the kits were darn close to some of my other favorite vendors prices.
It was kind of a shock to see they increased their prices so much.

No doubt, the price went up .

 

[SCooke123]

Understandable though. These companies can't absorb the shortages of materials and their costs and still remain in business.

 

[Sandy H.]

Understandable though. These companies can't absorb the shortages of materials and their costs and still remain in business.

I have heard in meetings at work (not involved in the details, just listening to what purchasing says) that we have vendors no-quoting multi-million dollar jobs saying they can't reliably source the steel needed at a price that stays stable enough for them to know how to quote. A few are offering time and materials quotes with the claim of full transparency of material pricing and fixed pricing on labor.

I know that people have said that balsa costs are crazy because of wind-power (and that could be factual, I just have no experience in that supply chain) but if machine manufacturers can't source generic steel and there is a balsa shortage, how can a small shop supply toys for us to play with and not at least try to keep being profitable. I'm pretty sure their food, gas etc., is more expensive and the material supply shortages are driving costs up. Seems like a quick way to drive consumer prices up 50-100% in short order.

I don't fault them at all. I just wish a lot of the issues calmed down and pricing for most things stabilized and eventually got back in line with the money individuals have to spend on the goods. I'm not sure if that will happen, though and that is a bit (OK, huge bit) scary for me at least. My engraving (side) business materials are generally up about 30-40% and some items are simply still unavailable reliably. Sell prices can't go up that much, as everyone has a price point between 'why not' and 'heck no' (myself included, so not complaining about customers).

Glad we are pretty stable financially on my end. If this was year one on the business, we'd be dead in the water. . .

Sandy.

 

[Tobor]

I managed to get an order in before the 40%-off went away. It still cost me $150 for postage of the box to Oz . I believe the discount is now more like 1/3.

Yep, it looks that way. Still better then most other eTailers...

 

[afadeev]

I know that people have said that balsa costs are crazy because of wind-power (and that could be factual, I just have no experience in that supply chain) but if machine manufacturers can't source generic steel and there is a balsa shortage, how can a small shop supply toys for us to play with and not at least try to keep being profitable.

That might be a valid consideration, alas, I don't believe AC Supply ever built or assembled any of its rocket kits or engines.
They were just reselling Estes SKUs.

I don't fault them at all.

I'm not prepared to "fault" AC Supply for trying to beef-up their sales margins. They are a business, afterall.

On the other hand, I will no longer "default" to buying Estes gear from them in the future, for either myself or my Scout launch events.
I will now shop around, and likely, redirect some of the business to other online vendors.

Not a big deal. I'm sure AC Supply considered that eventuality when they raised their prices.

a

 

[Sandy H.]

That might be a valid consideration, alas, I don't believe AC Supply ever built or assembled any of its rocket kits or engines.
They were just reselling Estes SKUs.
[snip]

Understood. I made the assumption (and very possibly the incorrect assumption) that Estes may have altered their discount to AC supply/raised the dealer price vs. retail price ratio, but I have zero reason to know that. My vendors are absolutely raising their prices to me, but maybe part of that is effectively that they are lowering my discount as well. Hard to say, at the end of the day, but since the products I buy are raw material and/or semi-finished and the distributor doesn't sell to the public, I can't see a difference between retail price and my price to see if the ratio changed.

So, I think my assessment might apply more directly to Estes raising their prices vs. AC Supply raising their prices. As you mentioned, they may be raising their prices to either increase margins or to cover other escalating costs. I appreciate you bringing that up, as it isn't a glaring error, but a subtle, yet important, distinction.

Sandy.

 

[samb]

I believe ACSupply is reacting to the increase cost to ship most everything. You guys have noticed the price of gas has gone up lately, right ? And maybe cost increases passed on from their primary supplier IDK.

 

[BigMacDaddy]

Wish Hobby Lobby sold body tube packs...

 

[Zman1961]

What is interesting if we look at AC Supply pricing, is that their prices on the few OOP kits they still offer have not gone up (Sprint XL, EPM 010 - both are great fliers, by the way), so I suspect the pricing from Estes has gone up on the currently in-production items. A lot of the MPR/HPR vendor kits, like Mad Cow, have gone up in the same percentage range as Estes, if not more. And certainly shipping has gone up across the board. I think that as vendors have to order new stock their prices are reflective of what the suppliers are charging. AT motor prices are way up too.

 

[PDawg]

The real question is why Estes charges similar prices for stuff stuff made in China that Custom Rocket Company and LOC Precision make here in the USA. It should be much cheaper when something is made in a country with no EPA or Human rights concerns.

 

[afadeev]

Understood. I made the assumption (and very possibly the incorrect assumption) that Estes may have altered their discount to AC supply/raised the dealer price vs. retail price ratio, but I have zero reason to know that. [...] So, I think my assessment might apply more directly to Estes raising their prices vs. AC Supply raising their prices.

Fair point.
It is hypothetically possible that Estes is attempting to squeeze wholesalers' margins, but the simplest way for them to do that would be to raise the prices. Imposing "minimal MSRP" prices is not impossible, but much harder to police, and would create a lot of bad blood with wholesale distributors. This would also lead to wholesalers reducing the Estes inventory they carry in the future.

My vendors are absolutely raising their prices to me, but maybe part of that is effectively that they are lowering my discount as well. Hard to say, at the end of the day, but since the products I buy are raw material and/or semi-finished and the distributor doesn't sell to the public, I can't see a difference between retail price and my price to see if the ratio changed.

Same here. Supplier costs are definitely going up, though we haven't raised our prices, yet.

I believe ACSupply is reacting to the increase cost to ship most everything. You guys have noticed the price of gas has gone up lately, right ? And maybe cost increases passed on from their primary supplier IDK.

My domestic shipping costs (business and personal) haven't gone up, as of yet.
The employee turnover is up, and so is the time to find qualified back-fill. Indirectly, that increases costs of doing business for everything.

a

 

[afadeev]

The real question is why Estes charges similar prices for stuff stuff made in China that Custom Rocket Company and LOC Precision make here in the USA. It should be much cheaper when something is made in a country with no EPA or Human rights concerns.

One can no longer assume that manufacturing and labor costs are THAT much cheaper in China. The labor rates have gone up by a lot there over the last few years.
For planning purposes, we now project headcount cost for professional services in China to be on par with those in the US.

Also, just because something may be cheaper to manufacture in location "A" vs. location "B", has no bearing on how a company prices the goods in free market.
Estes may choose to price its kits at whatever price point they feel the market will bear. Regardless of the exact (and fluctuating) price points across its diverse supplier network.

Wish Hobby Lobby sold body tube packs...

I wouldn't buy it from them, even if they did.
Between the small and dwindling rocketry sections in 3 local HL stores, conversations with the managers across all 3 stores over the past decade or so, and Hobby Lobby's lamentable business practices, I've removed them from my shopping list for good.

YMMV,
a

 

[samb]

Fair point.
It is hypothetically possible that Estes is attempting to squeeze wholesalers' margins, but the simplest way for them to do that would be to raise the prices. Imposing "minimal MSRP" prices is not impossible, but much harder to police, and would create a lot of bad blood with wholesale distributors. This would also lead to wholesalers reducing the Estes inventory they carry in the future.



Same here. Supplier costs are definitely going up, though we haven't raised our prices, yet.



My domestic shipping costs (business and personal) haven't gone up, as of yet.
The employee turnover is up, and so is the time to find qualified back-fill. Indirectly, that increases costs of doing business for everything.

a

I appreciate your insight a. I'm curious, what is your business and what do you ship ? At what point will you raise your prices to cover increased costs ?

 

[Pappy]

acsupply been berry berry good to me... i'll pay whatever they're asking. when that new bezos babymaker hits their shelf, BAM! one less in inventory. new orbital transport? BAM! one less... et al. love 'em.

 

[SharkWhisperer]

Doug's apparently shifted from 40% off Estes to 33% off. I just direct-compared over a dozen items at AC vs Estes, and every single one is 33% discounted from Estes newly elevated prices. I tested 3 18-mm motor bulk packs, 2-packs of D12s and C11s, Antar, Big Daddy, and Mean Machine kits, BT50 and BT80 tubes, and NC-50 and NC-80 cones. All of them.

As previously mentioned, some kits he has haven't gone up in price, at least not yet. I'm not sure that all the bellyaching about his price increases is at all justified...he keeps at least 80% of the Estes catalog in stock at a (still) decent discount. 33% off vs 40%, and folks are complaining? Sheesh!

AC's customer service equals Estes', i.e., both are excellent, and he's still offering free shipping over $100. Why would I buy Estes' products elsewhere?

It probably caused him physical pain to need to jack up his prices this year. They hadn't budged the slightest in 3 years, at least. And don't forget the recent price increase for shipping long packages, too (is that UPS or USPS?...). I back Estes. And they make money every single time that I place an order with Doug at AC. And that shall continue.

33% off instead of the 40% discount you're used to, and somehow that's distasteful? Where else are you going to get that discount? Buncha disloyal prima donnas...

 

[mh9162013]

I'm a returning rocketeer and used to Amazon.com prices. So even with a 700 basis point increase in prices, AC Supply still has really low prices in my book.