# A coupla airgun questions...

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#### Neil

##### Well-Known Member
I am thinkin about getting another BB gun. I like the looks of the Daisy model 880 pellet rifle, but I dont know what a "multi pupm pnumatic" is. This looks nice, I think I know how the pump works, but I would like something for BBs, not pellets Chinese import air rifle Then theres the Crosman line of products... I like the looks of this one particularly. But I dont know how the pump works. https://www.airgundepot.com/760b.html This ones a little more expensive, but I have always liked bolt-action guns. Lever actions nice too. and it has a fiber optic. I like that. Heres the link: https://www.airgundepot.com/2100brm.html But this ones nice too. Single pump, 440 FPS BBs, looks pretty good to me. I dont want to go much over the 750 FPS range, and I want something with at least a 50BB repeater. So, anyone who knows anything about this, could you let me know what you think? Id love a machine-gun version, but I cant find one, and they are proabably wicked expensive and dangerous. And no, I dont think my parents really mind me using bigger, faster guns. Heck, theres kids my age with .22 firearms, a .177 airgun that shoots fast cant be much worse.... So please helm me decide, or at least tell me how all those work... Thanks guys! -Neil

#### DavRedf

##### Well-Known Member
Hi Neil I dont know about in the USA but in my opinion the crossman range are the tops and the pump up air guns ( they pioneered the system) gives you a limited control of the power, the more you pump the more power, and most if not all airguns will fire BB's as well as pellets.
Hope this helps and I am sure you will get other replies.

David

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
Neil,

You'll shoot yer eye out!

sandman

#### Neil

##### Well-Known Member
You said that about my Red Ryder a few months ago!

#### Zippy

##### Well-Known Member
Niel,

Multi pump pneumatic just means it can be pumped more times for more pressure or less for less as opposed to a single pump.
I have the Chinese rifle. It's powerfull and hard to actually (single) pump. The stock is a bit short for adults but might fit you well. $49.95 is way to much for it though, mine was less than$20.
Most if not all 177 caliber airguns will be able to use BB's or pellets. Crossman's are allways a good choice and the prices seem about right in the links you posted.

#### Neil

##### Well-Known Member
Thanks. And what kind of pump is it? Is it like the Red Ryder where you just cock it by pulling the lever and its ready to go, or is it like a Super Soaker pump, or is it a bolt thingy? I might go with the model 880 pellet/BB rifle. Looks like a nice gun, it shoots fast&far, which is good for our huge yard.

So... If I pump the thing once, I get low speed, twice more, three times most? How many times do you have to pump it to get the full speed?

#### Zippy

##### Well-Known Member
The Chinese one is a lever that you pull out and down from near the end of the barrell. It's a target training rifle so it has peep sights and is single shot bolt action. All of the multi-pump guns should have a pressure relief valve so you can't over pump them. You have to check on each model to know wether they are pump action like a shotgun or lever action like a Whinchester except usually it's the forarm that's the lever not the trigger guard. I never owned a repeater so I don't know how the feed's work on them. I had a single shot Crossman lever action once and it was great. A lever action Crossman pistol too once, also great. Both had forarm levers, were powerfull multi-pumps and were single shot.

#### n3tjm

##### Papa Elf
I like pellets over bb's... more accurate (due to thr rifleing), but they harder to deal with because a .177 pellet is so small for my fat fingures...

Be a good boy with that BB gun . Just think... when you are 18... you can get a .22 long . I fired many of those in my days... when I get my college bill paid off, I plan to get one of my own... .22 rounds are dirt cheap

Don't bring your gun to school......... (he is homeschooled)

#### astrowolf67

##### Well-Known Member
Neil,
I've got a Daisy Powerline 880, that I use for pest control (coke cans, plastic bottles, black birds ). It's a good little air rifle for fun shooting, and very accurate with a small scope. It, and the Crossman you linked to are very similar in performance. Both of them will use either pellets or BB's. Pellets are loaded one at a time, while BB's have a storage chamber (probably hold 50 to 100 BB's). The pneumatic pump action is great. Both of these rifles use a range of 1 to 10 pumps, each pump builds more air pressure, resulting in a wide variety of muzzle velocities (yes, you have to re-pump between shots). The Daisy that I now have, has a lot of plastic in it's construction. I had the same model a long time ago, and it was mostly metal, with plastic stocks. I don't know how the Crossman compares in this perspective. When I bought it, I chose the Daisy because it's a bit larger than the Crossman, and fit me better (it's still small though).

Hope this helps!

#### bsexton

##### Well-Known Member
What Sandman said...

#### flying_silverad

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by bsexton
What Sandman said...

Yea and watch out for those northern Maine frozen flag poles! They ain't big fish sticks ya know!

#### Neil

##### Well-Known Member
Whats that supposed mean about the big fishsticks????

I Just got the Crossman Powerline at W-mart. The suggested retail is 100 bucks, but at W-mart I got it for $48! Howzat for a deal!? They have a horrible selection of Estes motors, but for other stuff.... You shoot BLACKBIRDS!?!!?!? You really must be a bad influence on your kids, if you have any! I am SURE my mom wouldent want you telling me how to shoot a blackbird... So these also count as "nuicance animals", so you can shoot em? Im not gonna try, doesent seem right. THats what paper targets were made for. I wont shoot my eyes out, promise! #### astrowolf67 ##### Well-Known Member So these also count as "nuicance animals" The city I live close to, and work in, has special "cannons" to scare them away, and can hit many at once. This time of year the flocks can reach numbers into the thousands. My back yard is a heavily wooded area, and there are times the noise is deafening. I use to use bottle rockets to scare them off, but got worried it could start a fire. When they all take off at once, it's a very erie sound. A moment of total silence followed by a deep rumbling sound as they all fly off at once. Oh, and it's not uncommon to feel the dreaded splat on the head (and it's not rain!!). Blackbirds are more of an epidemic in my area, more than just a nuicance #### Steward ##### Well-Known Member My son bought a Crosman 664GT last summer... #### Steward ##### Well-Known Member Out of the box he could shoot these little tiny holes in the target from 30ft...I mean for 50 bucks it's a sweet little rifle. If you look at that picture in the last post you can see the size of the grouping compared to the size of the dime...That's tight... He loves it and he loves shooting...We started right off the bat with safety, and we ain't looked back...LOL. I hate to say that he might enjoy that better than rockets....OK lets not say that...!!! #### doxiedog315 ##### Well-Known Member Rockets are bad enought,now you guys have me checking out air rifles! #### Neil ##### Well-Known Member Wow.... I just sighted this puppy in... I was sighting it in at 15 yards, got it all done, so I could hit a 1" target within 1/4" of the center, then I went back to the porch, a good 50+ yards from the target, lined up the crosshairs just as I had at 15 yards, loaded a BB and shot.... Wow.... I hit the target! The BB must have flown exactly level for 50 yards before hitting that thing! I like THIS, oh yeah! Now I gotta try lining up a dozen paper towel tubes and shoot em from the porch.... And to make it more difficult for me Ill put em behind a wall of snow so I can only see a quarter-sized piece of it! the BB will go right through the snow, but it makes it harder to see. The scope makes everything easy, once you sight it in! I like.... I was shooting paper towel tubes from 20 yards, and I thought I kept missing.... But really it was just stuck into the snow really far... I hit it about 20 times. It ripped a huge gash in the back, and there is a big space the size of a quarter with about 10 BB holes in it! Now this is good fun..... Not too expensive either! I wonder how much damage a pellet would do to one of these tubes......................... #### sandman ##### Well-Known Member OK, Neil, pay attention here! I discovered the perfect anti-vermin weapon.! This discourages both wild animals (skunks, racoons)...Neil, you new puppy doest NOT want to meet up with one of those! Neighbor cats possums...rats...you name it! Get a piece of 1/2" metal conduit about 2" long and bend a 90 degree bend into the last 6"...make it look like a gun! Now...when the vermin in in your yard...light a bottle rocket...preferrably with REPORT! and most Preferred a "Whistling Jupiter...the kind that whistle really loud) Quickly drop the bottle rocket into the barrel of the "gun" you made...take aim and FIRE! Completely harmless...even if you hit him with it. Quarantee...he will not come back!! Heck he'll tell his friends not to go to your house! Note* No animals were harmed in the writing ot this post! sandmat #### DavRedf ##### Well-Known Member Happy shooting Neil. You could try dragging a large magnet over the ground where your targets are. Most BB's are steel and so the magnet will collect them and save you money. David #### Steward ##### Well-Known Member Hey DOXIEDOG....this is in the$1400-$1500 range.... It's a Feinwerkbau P70 YF single shot...made in Germany. my color too...!!! #### powderburner ##### Well-Known Member Doxiedog, I bought a Feinwerkbau Model 10 for$300----about 25 years ago. Puts ten rounds into a group that measures 0.03 inches center-to-center at ten meters. Needs a little tune-up, but it is still running strong.

Neil, I also recommend pellets. You can usually find them somewhere for not too much expense, and they are almost always more accurate than round BBs. And you DO want all the velocity you can get because it makes the trajectory flatter and simplifies the aiming problem. OTOH, sounds like you already have a pretty good gun if you can hit with it consistently at 50 yards!

Be very careful with these things. Treat them like full-fledged firearms. They are just as dangerous, and can pretty much still kill you (or someone else) dead. Select your targets carefully and pay attention to where your shots will carry into the background. And don't leave the dead squirrels laying around the yard.

#### Neil

##### Well-Known Member
Whats all this crap about shootin squirrels???? Sounds like a nasty waste of a squirrel if you ask me. I sure dont eat em!

I am well aware that this thing can kill. Very dangerous if mistreated... At 50 yards I can hit a 5" target consistantly, but not dead-on. I am betting if I used a pellet it would be a little more accurate.

I read on the tin of pellets taht I bought that they have lead in em. Is this a risk to whatever lives around here? Id hate to put lead poisining in the back yard.... Can someone tell me how these things work?

#### rbeckey

##### Well-Known Member
The amount of lead you will put into your back yard after even years of shooting is insignificant. (Unless you plan to find the pellets and eat them.) The health impact of lead is greatest when it is vaporized or powdered and spread. The main source of lead in shooting sports is actually from the primer of metallic cartridges, which is made of lead styphnate. Outdoor shooting and properly ventilated indoor ranges virtually eliminate any risk of lead poisoning to even the most avid professional shooters.
I personally know a man who remanufactures ammunition commercially, including casting lead bullets in a commercial grade smelter. Additionally, he shoots many thousands of rounds of ammunition each year. He is tested for lead twice a year and has never had a clinically significant result. The main threat of lead is direct ingestion by children. The rest is hype by tree huggers and anti firearms advocates. Lead was actually used as water pipe for generations, and even later it was used in solder for copper pipes, and little impact was noted. I wouldn't powder it and spread it on my toast, but I am much more worried about my cholesterol at this point in my life.

#### Neil

##### Well-Known Member
Thats comforting, but what if Shannon (my puppy) eats it? That wouldent be good.... Or what if a squirrel or something at it, then an owl ate said squirrell.... Or am I just making up too many crazy scenarios? I dont know if I feel very comfortable shooting lead pellets anywhere near where Shannon could get em.

#### powderburner

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by rbeckey
Lead was actually used as water pipe for generations, and even later it was used in solder for copper pipes, and little impact was noted.
Don't forget that for hundreds (thousands?) of years, people drank from pewter cups-----which is mostly lead.

Neil, don't worry about ingesting a few lead pellets. Even squirrels are smart enough not to eat them. Lead, in pellet form, passes quickly through your system harmlessly.

#### Neil

##### Well-Known Member
OK. Thats a little more comforting.... I still have to figure out how to load those buggers, though. I cant get the pellets to stay in the pellet clip...

#### rbeckey

##### Well-Known Member
I guess we forgot the most deadly kind of lead poisoning - the high velocity perforating kind!

#### Neil

##### Well-Known Member
That too... You dont even have to swallow lead to get lead in yer stomache.... Ouch. Yeah, Id say that thats the most dangerous kind of lead... But I am still more worried about Shannon eating it than her getting hit with one... Shes always inside when I am shooting.

#### rbeckey

##### Well-Known Member
Seriously, the biggest danger of ingesting lead is neurological damage to an immature central nervous system in higher primates. There is probably more lead in the dog food than she would absorb by scarfing down the pellets on a daily basis. It is only readily absorbed by breathing vapors or digesting finely ground particles or chemically mixed compounds. The pellet would pass through so quick that none of it would be digested.
This isn't like uranium or cyanide, and is almost benign compared to many things already in the environment, like antifreeze, gasoline, bleach, paint thinner, etc. I truly believe that much of the hype associated with lead poisoning was created by anti gun nuts who took data from cases of neglected children that ate lead based paint chips on a regular basis and professional painters who didn't take common sense precautions and stretched it to fit an agenda. They got OSHA and a few other bureaucracies involved, and all the sudden the stuff is a deadly poison that threatens the American way of life. Just use common sense and don't let a demonization process influence you.
I know that in cases of gunshot wounds where removal of a bullet is going to cause more damage than leaving it, surgeons routinely sew up their patients and they heal with no measurable ill effect. This is a 24/7/365 source of internal lead contact, and the supposed toxicity is not even a concern.

#### Neil

##### Well-Known Member
Ill add that to my list of "real threats" and "silly threats".

Silly threats:
Model&high power rocketry
pellets
mad cow disiese (Not as silly as the first two, but all that hype about it.....)

Real threats:
Osama bin Laden
MANPADs
Other shoulder-fired missiles.

I just figured out how to load a pellet into my Crosman airgun. man thing is accurate! I just re-sigted it in, and wowie. Thats quite a difference. Ill post a pic!

Ten pellets into a quarter-sized black dot? No problemo!