MWPX Vendors?

https://lokiresearch.com/default.aspx

Loki Research will NOT be vending at MWP.

Rocketry related sales of ANY kind are not permitted by the QCRS club at MWP.

I have been warned that anyone selling rocketry products on site will be asked to leave immediately.

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Why?

QCRS has an agreement with Wildman hobbies that requires Tim to show up to and run every launch. In return, exclusive vendor status has been granted. This has been in place long before my time as a board member.

I wonder if that applies to yard sale items.

Sounds pretty strict though.

It does NOT apply to any yard sale type transactions. Those are just people selling there own personal goodies. It was decided by the club to allow Midwest Power to be vended solely by Wildman. People attending the launch that want to sell some of there used items are free to do that. The idea of this was to allow Tim to run the LCO all 3 days and not have to worrie about his daughters or wife in the sales trailer.There is a lot of "drama" about this situation and the bottom line is, the club is what it is because of the time and efforts of Tim. Rain or shine snow or sleet, he shows up, sets up and runs our club launches. As the club has verry few members with the time to dedicate to this task

Like Jason said a single person selling a few items or in my case just dropping sold items off is no problem
gp

GRIFFIN said:

It does NOT apply to any yard sale type transactions. Those are just people selling there own personal goodies. It was decided by the club to allow Midwest Power to be vended solely by Wildman. People attending the launch that want to sell some of there used items are free to do that. The idea of this was to allow Tim to run the LCO all 3 days and not have to worrie about his daughters or wife in the sales trailer.There is a lot of "drama" about this situation and the bottom line is, the club is what it is because of the time and efforts of Tim. Rain or shine snow or sleet, he shows up, sets up and runs our club launches. As the club has verry few members with the time to dedicate to this task

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Of course there is a lot of drama which no one in QCRS should find surprising. Since I fly on the opposite side of the lake I only hear the "other" side of the story. And you also should not find it suprising that a motor manufacturer who does not do business with Wildman be really irritated they can't sell at a QCRS event. Personally, I think since there are so few motor makers out there this is a little short-sighted but that's my opinion...To each their own I guess.

Unfortunately, with this setup QCRS can never be a non-profit - at least I would assume it's not possible since that would clearly be a conflict of interests. QCRS isn't non profit - right?

As you can imagine, the view of this situation to an outsider like myself is a little...odd. Especially since QCRS is the only one set up like this that I am aware of.

GRIFFIN said:

(snip)There is a lot of "drama" about this situation and the bottom line is, the club is what it is because of the time and efforts of Tim. Rain or shine snow or sleet, he shows up, sets up and runs our club launches. As the club has verry few members with the time to dedicate to this task

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Well said. The key here is Tim running all launches, all year long. This is a serious commitment and takes a lot of his time. Sometimes there are just a handful of fliers at a launch and Wildman clearly loses money when that happens.

Note that some people are up in arms about this in October of each year. After that we do not hear too much from them and as far as I know no one has offered a more generous arrangement. As a regular flyer of QCRS I love the current setup and I do not see Wildman gouging prices during MWP.

My :2:.

P.S. I know for a fact opinions vary greatly on this topic and I welcome other points of view, but please let's keep it civilized :duck:

DAllen said:

Of course there is a lot of drama which no one in QCRS should find surprising. Since I fly on the opposite side of the lake I only hear the "other" side of the story. And you also should not find it suprising that a motor manufacturer who does not do business with Wildman be really irritated they can't sell at a QCRS event. Personally, I think since there are so few motor makers out there this is a little short-sighted but that's my opinion...To each their own I guess.

Unfortunately, with this setup QCRS can never be a non-profit - at least I would assume it's not possible since that would clearly be a conflict of interests. QCRS isn't non profit - right?

As you can imagine, the view of this situation to an outsider like myself is a little...odd. Especially since QCRS is the only one set up like this that I am aware of.

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Three sides to every story right

QCRS and Wildman hobbies are two different entities. I do not really understand the point you are trying to make about the "non-profit"? Wildman Hobbies and QCRS are not one and the same. Tim happens to be a board member for the club and we are privileged to have Wilman hobbies as our local vendor.

drama with vendors is nothing new anywhere and i dont see the "Lockout" for lack of a better term as totaly unfair since the club is kept alive by Tim's efforts. unless prepaid deliveries are banned also. that being said since Wildman does not carry products from every motor company (and would be hard pressed to do so) Loki, Gorrilla, and Roadrunner.... Ect should be able to make better arrangements to be supported at a large highly publicized regional launch like MWP

atxcple said:

drama with vendors is nothing new anywhere and i dont see the "Lockout" for lack of a better term as totaly unfair since the club is kept alive by Tim's efforts. unless prepaid deliveries are banned also. that being said since Wildman does not carry products from every motor company (and would be hard pressed to do so) Loki, Gorrilla, and Roadrunner.... Ect should be able to make better arrangements to be supported at a large highly publicized regional launch like MWP

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Shane,

Pre-paid deliveries are allowed. It is hard to tell someone that they can't show up and deliver something that has been paid for. That being said, I would (and do) go out of my way to avoid any shipping costs, if someone wants to drive to deliver me parts and not charge for shipping. I'm all for that.

GRIFFIN said:

Three sides to every story right

QCRS and Wildman hobbies are two different entities. I do not really understand the point you are trying to make about the "non-profit"? Wildman Hobbies and QCRS are not one and the same. Tim happens to be a board member for the club and we are privileged to have Wilman hobbies as our local vendor.

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Well, maybe I am not understanding the relationship correctly. But if you have a for profit entity in charge of the major event for a non profit organization that the for profit company stands to make a fair amount of $$ off of said non profit event I cannot imagine this would be looked upon too kindly by the IRS especially when competing vendors are locked out. Of course, if QCRS isn't a 501(c)(3) it's a non-issue. That's my point. And don't forget, I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.

atxcple said:

drama with vendors is nothing new anywhere and i dont see the "Lockout" for lack of a better term as totaly unfair since the club is kept alive by Tim's efforts. unless prepaid deliveries are banned also. that being said since Wildman does not carry products from every motor company (and would be hard pressed to do so) Loki, Gorrilla, and Roadrunner.... Ect should be able to make better arrangements to be supported at a large highly publicized regional launch like MWP

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As I understand it, Loki is doing exactly that - pre-selling his wares and delivering. Even in spite of this Loki is not allowed on the MWP premises and are having to get a motel room to deliver the goods. Same goes for Red Arrow Hobbies. Then again - this is only one side of information here.

My purpose here is not to argue about the fairness of the QCRS not letting any other motor vendor on site because that's rather irrelevant to me and my club. All I am doing is trying to wrap my itty bitty noggin on what exactly is happening so when people come over to my side of the lake and complain about what's going on at QCRS I can be informed and give educated and accurate answers. Likewise, I realize no club is going to suit everyone so I'm sure there are PLENTY of people that complain about what those knucklheads are doing over there at Michiana Rocketry. :wink:

Make an agreement like what QCRS has with Wildman and of course there's going to be all sorts of extra vendor drama. It's amusing when QCRS members are shocked and sometimes offended by this drama. Might be handy to post some sort of statement on your web site about the true nature of the Wlidman/QCRS relationship so you fellas can stop answering these sorts of questions this time of year.

DAllen said:

Well, maybe I am not understanding the relationship correctly. But if you have a for profit entity in charge of the major event for a non profit organization that the for profit company stands to make a fair amount of $$ off of said non profit event I cannot imagine this would be looked upon too kindly by the IRS especially when competing vendors are locked out. Of course, if QCRS isn't a 501(c)(3) it's a non-issue. That's my point. And don't forget, I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.

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But did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

chadrog said:

But did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

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HAHAHAHA







no

DAllen said:

As I understand it, Loki is doing exactly that - pre-selling his wares and delivering. Even in spite of this Loki is not allowed on the MWP premises and are having to get a motel room to deliver the goods.

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Dave,

No you are misinformed. Scott will be at Midwest Power and has Personally been invited by the board. He will be there as a manufacture. He is supporting his vender by bringing any pre paid orders and handing them out. I have placed an order myself and I do not feel like the exchange of goods needs to happen at the hotel. No rules are being broken and Loki is not "vending". As far as his hotel room...where else would he sleep?

Please, lets all just drop this and focus your energy on having a good time at the launch. Bring your rockets and plan on a good time.

GRIFFIN said:

No you are misinformed. Scott will be at Midwest Power and has Personally been invited by the board. He will be there as a manufacture. He is supporting his vender by bringing any pre paid orders and handing them out. I have placed an order myself and I do not feel like the exchange of goods needs to happen at the hotel. No rules are being broken and Loki is not "vending". As far as his hotel room...where else would he sleep?

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This is my last point of clarification and then I'll drop it so long as someone doesn't bring up any other pertinent facts.

Okay, so you are saying anyone can show up with a load of materials (motors included) ordered and paid for in advance and distribute them to customers at the MWP launch site - right? I ask because this is not what I've been told. Once again, it would help immensely if QCRS would post a detailed statement outlining all of this on their web site because I can tell you there is a tremendous amount of confusion going around.

Look, I know I am being annoying but I get and hear questions and comments frequently about this and frankly this arrangement is unheard of not just in rocketry but any arena I can think of. So as long as you fellas have it in place expect the controversy and the questions - reasonable or not right around when MWP occurs. And don't deceive yourself, while Wildman has MANY fans there are just as many who aren't (not just vendors) and that's where the bulk of the controversy comes from like it or not. Every vendor has it's fanboys and haters but let me tell you, Wildman is the most polarizing one of the bunch.

It is really a shame that some people that have nothing to do with the club or MWP seem to think they know what’s better for our club than the people that run it every day.

In order to explain the exclusive vendor arrangement at MWP you need to know the where it came from.
I will try to make it as short as I can but get the details in.
Since I am the one who has been there from day one I guess I will be the one to tell it.
This is all from memory so the dates might not be correct or minor details might be off, but they are all correct to best of my knowledge so please forgive me for any mistakes now.
First and foremost I want to thank everybody who has helped with all of the launches and done whatever was asked without asking anything in return.
About 15 years ago the QC club was started by Brad W. and a NAR guy Glenn.( sorry Glenn I cannot remember you last name
Glenn was the waiver holder I don’t know exactly what he did, but he lost the waiver and we found out about a week before the next launch.
I stepped up and got a hold of the Faa and got a Waiver.

Then I started working for Al’s Hobby Shop

A year after that Glenn messed up again and lost our launch site .
I started searching for a new launch site and was able to find one. BTW I was just a flier at this time.
One problem our launch site was during the summer only.

I live out in farm country so I started asking around to the neighbors about using some fields for a launch site during the fall and winter and was able to secure one basically in my backyard. To the point if it rained we would all go to my garage and build stuff if the sun came out we would go out to the field.

Brad was named as a TAP so I became prefect since I was the only other one that was at every launch.
Several years go by.

One of the regional launches Danville stopped having there launch in the fall.

A couple friends talked me into doing a regional launch after several months of leg work everything from meeting with the local city zoning board to knocking on doors for a mile around the launch site to make sure we could go on their property to recover our rockets.

MWP is born.

It goes off with only minor hitches and is a great success.

But we lose the launch site.
So I have to go through the whole process again.

I quit working for Al’s that winter.

My friends talk me into starting Wildman’s because Al’s abandoned the high power launches for months because they didn’t know what they wanted to do after I left.

The local launches in no way could support 2 vendors I talked to the people running the 3 local clubs about an exclusive vendor arrangement and they all agreed it was a good idea.BTW in the QC club it was voted on by the bOD that was comprised of at least 5 BOD members.

The agreement was that I would agree to be at ALL launches in exchange for being the exclusive vendor.

For MWP 4 I believe Hybrids were starting to gain popularity and the BOD thought it would be a good idea to have hybrid support and Wildman’s did not carry hybrids so SMR was contacted about coming to the launch and he agreed.

That year another vendor asked me about coming to MWP I told him I didn’t have a problem with it but he would have to contact the QC BOD about it and gave him a couple of contact names. BTW he never contacted anyone

MWP 4 starts the other vendor shows up sets up and proceeds to start selling stuff.
One of the QC board members tells him about the exclusive vendor arrangement and that he would have to put his stuff away and stop selling. He does .
Later that day at the night launch he pulls his stuff back out and starts selling again.

He is told once again that he is not allowed to sell here, it gets a little heated on both sides and he is told to leave and his is not welcome back.BTW I was not involved in this I was doing LCO the whole time as always.

This certain vendor believes he should be able to go anywhere HE wants and sell whether he is wanted there or not He has gone so far as to insult our volunteers and sell things at below cost for the launch to try and hurt MWP and my business.

Last year Scott from LOKI wanted to come to MWP as a vendor I worked out an arrangement with him that would allow him to come out as a Manufacture and not violate the exclusive vendor arrangement.
Scott was a member of QC for years before he went out to PA to work with LOKI and I considered him a friend and was trying to help him out.
This year he decided against that route and is trying to work around the letter of the rule instead of spirit of it.

Last year there was a call for current QCRS club members and a vote was taken of the members to renew the exclusive vendor agreement and passed something like 15-1.
I am not going to post anything else on this subject I think the MWP record speaks for itself.

It gets bigger every year over 150 preregistered fliers.

We have people coming from all over the country to our little launch that I have been running since day one.
the exclusive vendor agreement has nothing to do with the club being not for profit there is no money exchanged.

As far as Wildman’s goes all I can tell you is I do the best that I can and treat everybody the way I would like to be treated whenever I can and once again I must be doing something right

DAllen said:

This is my last point of clarification and then I'll drop it so long as someone doesn't bring up any other pertinent facts.

Okay, so you are saying anyone can show up with a load of materials (motors included) ordered and paid for in advance and distribute them to customers at the MWP launch site - right?
ear.

I ask because this is not what I've been told. Once again, it would help immensely if QCRS would post a detailed statement outlining all of this on their web site because I can tell you there is a tremendous amount of confusion going around.



Look, I know I am being annoying but I get and hear questions and comments frequently about this and frankly this arrangement is unheard of not just in rocketry but any arena I can think of.



So as long as you fellas have it in place expect the controversy and the questions - reasonable or not right around when MWP occurs. And don't deceive yourself, while Wildman has MANY fans there are just as many who aren't (not just vendors) and that's where the bulk of the controversy comes from like it or not. Every vendor has it's fanboys and haters but let me tell you, Wildman is the most polarizing one of the bunch.

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No other vendors are not allowed there to sell or not to sell LOKI is allowed there as a manufacture to support and promote his products after being invited not just showing up.
I am going out on a limb here it's not the letter of the rule but the spirit and a certain Vendor is no longer welcome at MWP and never will be after what he did last year.
If another vendor is interested in coming to MWP he or she needs to contact someone on the BOD and ask first not just show up.


The only confusion is from people that are not there or not members of the club.

Not really several clubs on the east coast used to have an exclusive agreement with hanger 11 and TARC still does but i believe there is 2 vendors now.

WILDMANRS said:

The only confusion is from people that are not there or not members of the club.

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Bingo. That's why I am asking questions. Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll screen shot your response so I can show the other side as it were.