Vagabond build

qquake2k · May 27, 2012

I don't build a lot of low power rockets these days. But I've liked the Vagabond since it came out. I like it so much, in fact, I've decided to build an upscale of it. I also decided to order a kit, and build an original as well. Inspired by Carl's red Vagabond, I decided to build it zipperless. I've never built a low power zipperless rocket, but it should be similar, just with smaller parts.

I started by flooding the coupler and inside of the short body tube with CA, and sanding both smooth. I cut the baffle out of 1/8" plywood, and filed it to size with my wood lathe. I marked and drilled eight 3/16" holes around the perimeter. This will be the baffle plate that is epoxied into the coupler.

qquake2k · May 27, 2012

For the recovery anchor, I made a loop with a piece of 3/32" brass rod. I drilled two 7/64" holes in the baffle, put the brass loop through, then bent the ends over. Also shown is the coupler on the lathe. I sanded it then polished it with a Scotchbrite pad.

qquake2k · May 27, 2012

I covered the ends of the brass rod with epoxy, and also filled the 1/4" pilot hole left by the hole saw. I put a piece of masking tape over the pilot hole on the other side before filling it. I epoxied the baffle into the coupler.

cjp · May 27, 2012

qquake2k said:
For the recovery anchor, I made a loop with a piece of 3/32" brass rod. I drilled two 7/64" holes in the baffle, put the brass loop through, then bent the ends over. Also shown is the coupler on the lathe. I sanded it then polished it with a Scotchbrite pad.

I really like the use of brass rod,I will try that instead of an eyebolt.My finished baffle was 1oz.,that's with 30min.epoxy.Like it so far.Will follow this build.

qquake2k · May 27, 2012

cjp said:
I really like the use of brass rod,I will try that instead of an eyebolt.My finished baffle was 1oz.,that's with 30min.epoxy.Like it so far.Will follow this build.

I didn't weigh just the baffle. But the coupler, with baffle and epoxy, only weighs 0.3 ounce.

Wayco · May 27, 2012

I'm subscribing to this thread! Even though I have built two of these rockets, you have already shown me a great trick with the brass rod. As soon as Estes sends me the warranty replacement for Rag-a-bond, I will be building my third Vagabond incorporating some of Carl's and your ideas. Thanks for starting this tread.

3boydad · May 27, 2012

i build a vagabond, original minus kevlar around the motor tube. I like what you are doing here. and i have an extra kit. I may try wat you are doing here. and build an upped version as well to fly on f,g. I like your craftsmanship. looks great!

3boydad · May 27, 2012

qquake2k said:
I don't build a lot of low power rockets these days. But I've liked the Vagabond since it came out. I like it so much, in fact, I've decided to build an upscale of it. I also decided to order a kit, and build an original as well. Inspired by Carl's red Vagabond, I decided to build it zipperless. I've never built a low power zipperless rocket, but it should be similar, just with smaller parts.

I started by flooding the coupler and inside of the short body tube with CA, and sanding both smooth. I cut the baffle out of 1/8" plywood, and filed it to size with my wood lathe. I marked and drilled eight 3/16" holes around the perimeter. This will be the baffle plate that is epoxied into the coupler.

where do you get the template for this pattern?

Marc_G · May 27, 2012

Another subscriber: me!

Love what you are doing here. I have a question about your upscale:
What size, and what will you do for the nose cone? The original scale PNC-60RL (I think) is fairly unique and I haven't seen it offered in other scales. Will you turn one on your lathe (super cool!). What wood do you plan to use, if so?

I'm actually thinking of building some downscales and have considered investing in a small lathe for the project...

SacEsq · May 27, 2012

Really like watching your builds. Now for a silly question: I see the term "zipperless design" and have not quite figured out what that means, can you explain or direct me to a thread where it shows what it is? Thanks.

Wayco · May 27, 2012

SacEsq said:
Really like watching your builds. Now for a silly question: I see the term "zipperless design" and have not quite figured out what that means, can you explain or direct me to a thread where it shows what it is? Thanks.

You should read Carl's thread:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?36379-Red-Vagabond&

Basically, the rocket spits open at the coupler, with the upper body tube holding the chute and cord with the nose cone attached. When ejection occurs, the rocket splits in half with the lighter upper body tube and nosecone sliding off the chute, which is attached pretty close to the coupler/baffle.
I used this design on my Executioner, but forgot to pin the nosecone to the upper body tube. Fortunately, everything came out OK:

cjp · May 27, 2012

Wayco said:
You should read Carl's thread:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?36379-Red-Vagabond&

Basically, the rocket spits open at the coupler, with the upper body tube holding the chute and cord with the nose cone attached. When ejection occurs, the rocket splits in half with the lighter upper body tube and nosecone sliding off the chute, which is attached pretty close to the coupler/baffle.
I used this design on my Executioner, but forgot to pin the nosecone to the upper body tube. Fortunately, everything came out OK:

In all my zipperless,I used small screws to attach the nosecone to the top tube so it will not come off from the ejection charge.I used one small screw for Vagabond.I'm glad Jim is doing this build thread,I'm not good explaining things.Plus his tools and build process is the best.

qquake2k · May 27, 2012

SacEsq said:
Really like watching your builds. Now for a silly question: I see the term "zipperless design" and have not quite figured out what that means, can you explain or direct me to a thread where it shows what it is? Thanks.

Here is the article that explained it for me:

https://www.info-central.org/?article=132

In all my zipperless rockets, I always put half moon baffles in the forward end of the motor tube, then drill holes around the outside of the baffle plate that gets epoxied into the coupler. Haven't had a zipper or failure yet, except for the time I forgot to tighten the quick link. Oops. :blush:

qquake2k · May 27, 2012

Marc_G said:
Another subscriber: me!

Love what you are doing here. I have a question about your upscale:
What size, and what will you do for the nose cone? The original scale PNC-60RL (I think) is fairly unique and I haven't seen it offered in other scales. Will you turn one on your lathe (super cool!). What wood do you plan to use, if so?

I'm actually thinking of building some downscales and have considered investing in a small lathe for the project...

My upscale will be 3" diameter and 64" long. The nose cone will be an 11" long plastic PNC300K from BMS. It's not perfect, but I don't obsess about finding the perfect shape for my upscales. With the distinctive fin shape, paint scheme, and decals, it'll definitely look like a Vagabond.

qquake2k · May 27, 2012

Wayco said:
I'm subscribing to this thread! Even though I have built two of these rockets, you have already shown me a great trick with the brass rod. As soon as Estes sends me the warranty replacement for Rag-a-bond, I will be building my third Vagabond incorporating some of Carl's and your ideas. Thanks for starting this tread.

I've used the brass rod before, and it worked well. It's a lot lighter than even a 5/32" eyebolt. Somebody on here uses large paper clips, which would probably work. But you know me, I tend to overbuild, even on low power rockets.

qquake2k · May 27, 2012

3boydad said:
i build a vagabond, original minus kevlar around the motor tube. I like what you are doing here. and i have an extra kit. I may try wat you are doing here. and build an upped version as well to fly on f,g. I like your craftsmanship. looks great!

Thanks for the compliment!

3boydad said:
where do you get the template for this pattern?

I make the baffle templates with an old desktop publishing program called Pagemaker. But you could easily make these templates with a compass and protractor.

qquake2k · May 28, 2012

Because of the baffle system I'm going to use, I need a longer motor mount tube. I cut one from a length of 24mm motor tube that I already had. Unfortunately, it's thinner wall than the motor tube the kit came with, so the cardboard centering rings fit too loosely. I cut new centering rings from some 1/8" light ply that I had. I cut them with a 1-3/4" hole saw, and filed them to size on the wood lathe.

qquake2k · May 28, 2012

I cut the center holes in the plywood centering rings with a 15/16" hole saw, and sanded them to fit the motor tube with the Dremel.

qquake2k · May 28, 2012

I cut out the fin pieces from the balsa sheet in the kit, and glued one together, putting a heavy SLA battery on it to hold the pieces flat. The balsa is warped, though, and I've decided to cut one piece fins from the 1/8" light plywood. I'll use the one glued fin as a template.

rocketgeek101 · May 28, 2012

Are you planing to make the fins go through the wall??

cjp · May 28, 2012

qquake2k said:
I cut out the fin pieces from the balsa sheet in the kit, and glued one together, putting a heavy SLA battery on it to hold the pieces flat. The balsa is warped, though, and I've decided to cut one piece fins from the 1/8" light plywood. I'll use the one glued fin as a template.

My balsa was warped also,I put paper skins on the fins and with a book and my toolbox on top,let it set for a couple days.I really liked the plywood centerings,can't wait to see your motor retention.When I upscale I think I'll go with 2.6 or 3 inch bodytubes.

foamy · May 28, 2012

qquake2k said:
snip... I make the baffle templates with an old desktop publishing program called Pagemaker. But you could easily make these templates with a compass and protractor.

Wow. Long ago and far away. I always hated Pagemaker. I was a Quark fan. It's in the same boat now. I can't say I love InDesign, but it's the tool of choice nowadays. Good on ya for keeping the ol' Pagemaker going. I'm surprised it'll run on the current systems.

qquake2k · May 28, 2012

rocketgeek101 said:
Are you planing to make the fins go through the wall??

You know, I hadn't thought about it, but I probably will. It won't add that much weight, but it will add a lot of strength.

qquake2k · May 28, 2012

foamy said:
Wow. Long ago and far away. I always hated Pagemaker. I was a Quark fan. It's in the same boat now. I can't say I love InDesign, but it's the tool of choice nowadays. Good on ya for keeping the ol' Pagemaker going. I'm surprised it'll run on the current systems.

I'm still using Photoshop 6! LOL

Pagemaker is probably 10 years old, but I'm used to it, and it still works. My current PC has 64 bit Vista, and it's working fine. Knock on wood...

qquake2k · May 28, 2012

cjp said:
My balsa was warped also,I put paper skins on the fins and with a book and my toolbox on top,let it set for a couple days.I really liked the plywood centerings,can't wait to see your motor retention.When I upscale I think I'll go with 2.6 or 3 inch bodytubes.

I doubt if I'll do anything special for retention. Even if I decide to use 24mm reloads, the motor hook will work fine. That's what I have in my Executioner, and it's never flown on a BP motor.

cjp · May 29, 2012

I left the thrust out and did use the enginehook.I'll put tape on the aft end of the blackpowder engines,any 24/40 reloads I'll ziptie and backup with masking tape to the hook.

qquake2k · May 29, 2012

qquake2k said:
I doubt if I'll do anything special for retention. Even if I decide to use 24mm reloads, the motor hook will work fine. That's what I have in my Executioner, and it's never flown on a BP motor.

I always use the thrust ring in addition to the hook. I don't trust the hook alone to keep the motor from pushing up into the motor tube.

cjp · May 29, 2012

qquake2k said:
I always use the thrust ring in addition to the hook. I don't trust the hook alone to keep the motor from pushing up into the motor tube.

When I built my Kraken,Layne told me not use a thrust ring,just use masking tape on the aft end of the engine.Never had a problem,and it allows you options for longer engines.But I wanted to make sure my 24/40 casing would fit.I have plenty room,could have used the ring after all.How's the build progress coming?

qquake2k · May 30, 2012

cjp said:
When I built my Kraken,Layne told me not use a thrust ring,just use masking tape on the aft end of the engine.Never had a problem,and it allows you options for longer engines.But I wanted to make sure my 24/40 casing would fit.I have plenty room,could have used the ring after all.How's the build progress coming?

Well, the 24/40 reload case fits fine with the thrust ring, which allows you to fly up to F motors. I can't imagine ever flying it on more than that. Can you imagine a Vagabond on a Cesaroni 24mm 6 grain G100 Skidmark? LOL

qquake2k · May 30, 2012

Didn't get much done yesterday. All I did was print and cut out the fin template.

Vagabond build

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