Largest Mid-Power...

I like big rockets! No, I LOVE big rockets! Just curious what are some of the larger rockets that have been flown on mid-power motors. Anyone know any particular rockets or have photos? I'd be curious to know max diameter, length and weight. I'd really like to build and fly a large diameter mid-power...

So as far as affordable lightweight materials go (not carbon fiber), what would be ideal materials?

I have heard that lightly built LOC Mini-Mag's have been flown on G motors.

My King Kraken also flies on G's.

The Aerotech Mirage is one of my favorites.

Fe Dude said:

I have heard that lightly built LOC Mini-Mag's have been flown on G motors.

My King Kraken also flies on G's.

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Flown Mini Maggs and the old LOC Wolverine (slightly longer Mini Magg) on G200s. I think they were Vulcan. Not 100% sure.

Attach Pic of Wolverine on a G110 from 2001.

Does mid power end at G80? If so, a mini mag can possibly fly on it. But you can get much "bigger" than that... I would consider super G motors to be high power.

Foam rockets and other very light contraptions have been flown on E,F,G motors where the rocket is 6,8,10 inches in diameter and many feet long. You can fly what outwardly looks like a level 3 rocket if you make it very light and perhaps empty in the center.

New Ocean said:

Foam rockets and other very light contraptions have been flown on E,F,G motors where the rocket is 6,8,10 inches in diameter and many feet long. You can fly what outwardly looks like a level 3 rocket if you make it very light and perhaps empty in the center.

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Interesting idea. Basically, if the power to weight ratio is not an unsafe imbalance, there's nothing saying you cant build a big rocket that's lightweight and mid-powered. Of course you'd have to stay within the NFPA 1127 and FAR 101...

So as far as cost effectiveness (not carbon fiber, etc.), what would be ideal materials and method?

dixontj93060 said:

The Aerotech Mirage is one of my favorites.

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"Is a mirage real? Well, it's a real mirage..." ~ Edward Abbey

Aerotech Sumo and G Force give impressive flights on G loads.
https://youtu.be/SXP3oBEpdQ8

WizardOfAZ said:

So as far as cost effectiveness (not carbon fiber, etc.), what would be ideal materials and method?

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Foam would be best, with thin plywood for the fins. Here is one such rocket:

https://highpowerrocketry.blogspot.com/2012/03/what-is-smallest-motor-that-can-fly-8.html

One alternative would be some kind of thin wood frame with modeling plastic around it. But my big fear is that it would not handle the thrust. The rocket above is a tractor rocket so that may help. Pulling is a tension thing and tension is simpler to build against than pushing.

Big saucers are fun, too. My neighbor made this one out of styrofoam, it flies awesome on G's!

Apogee 1/70 Saturn V, 5.5" diameter, flies on a G80.
Fliskits Decaffinator foam cup rocket. About 6' tall, 3" diameter. Flies on a D12-3.
I've also seen a frame and cardstock Mercury Redstone about 6" diameter that flew on a G80.

There was the Estes Dude. A mylar balloon that was 6ft high and 8"?? diameter. Flew on D motors.

Handeman said:

There was the Estes Dude. A mylar balloon that was 6ft high and 8"?? diameter. Flew on D motors.

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The "Dude" rules...
https://youtu.be/HcPM60uU2A0

Quest "Little Grunt". Flies on D's but it's easy to mod for 95mm x 24mm engines. Short, fat, and fairly reliable flyer.

New Ocean said:

Does mid power end at G80?

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When the OP stated "mid power" I'm guessing/assuming that he means "without requiring L1 certification".

In that case... mid power ends at 2x G80 cluster and total weight no more than 1500 grams including motors.

Single G's with more than 80ns ave thrust are L1 motors.

The biggest problem with conventional airframes (LOC tubes) is that they are thicker walled (heavier) at 3" diameter and up.

One section of LOC 3.9" tube (34") + one 3.9 nosecone, + 2 G80 motors = 900 grams. Half of that weight is the tube. To go bigger, you need to consider light weight materials.

I've flown my LOC High-Tech on Econojet F23-4FJ several times. I did my L1 cert flight w/same rocket on CTI H54. All the LOC kits are extremely light though. However, i think the ejection on the F23 was real close to not having enough pressure for that larg of airframe tube, if ejection wasn't right at apogee, it may have not had enough.(luckily it was)

Wayco said:

I just built an Estes Executioner with a 29mm MMT, it weighs in at 12.6 oz. and stands 38" tall.

If you're going to build a BIG rocket and still fly it on MPR motors, you pretty much have to use paper tubes. Anything else gets heavy fast, I built an Aspire out of blue tube and more than doubled the weight! :y: Still trying to find a motor to fly it on, seems like all the AT reloads for my 29/40-120 casing don't have a long enough delay. Hoping to use the new CTI 3grain case I just bought for the next launch.
Are you coming to the Spring Blast this year Josh?

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Wayne! That's awesome! I just built the same rocket! I can't remember if I posted it or not, but its a 29mm Executioner. I haven't tried mine on a 29 yet, but its going to happen soon! I really like the Executioner. I think Im going to build another one, but maybe a cluster.

The best lifting mid power G is probably the AT G76 G reload due to its 35 lbs initial thrust spike. I've flown otherwise high power rockets in the 3 lb range to about 600 -1000 ft on these motors testing out DD setups.

My tallest was a scratch built 9-1/2ft BT-80 "Stairway to Heaven" on a G53. I've flown several short 4" rockets on G reloads, and my LOC-IV on 38mm G's.

John Pursley's MR8 flew on a G.



Tom Beach checking to see if Gus is a "Go" for launch. :wink:

I'd credit the photographer, if I knew who it was.

Greg

chadrog said:

The "Dude" rules...
https://youtu.be/HcPM60uU2A0

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That's absolutely hilarious!

chadrog said:

Aerotech Sumo and G Force give impressive flights on G loads.
https://youtu.be/SXP3oBEpdQ8

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Oh yes they do!!! My G-Force is still one of my favorite rockets, it really screams on a G64-4W. My Sumo seems to fly better on the G76-4G (Mojave green) - the higher initial thrust keeps it from weathercocking over.

Here is some video I took of both of them earlier in the year:

G-Force - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_re-6yYp0I
Sumo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX1f02i3KJE

I'm eager to fly my LOC-IV soon on some "G" 38/120 motors, I'll take some pics and post 'em up.

neond7 said:

Oh yes they do!!! My G-Force is still one of my favorite rockets, it really screams on a G64-4W. My Sumo seems to fly better on the G76-4G (Mojave green) - the higher initial thrust keeps it from weathercocking over.

Here is some video I took of both of them earlier in the year:

G-Force - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_re-6yYp0I
Sumo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX1f02i3KJE

I'm eager to fly my LOC-IV soon on some "G" 38/120 motors, I'll take some pics and post 'em up.

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So that's how rockets fly when there's no wind - I've always wondered...

chadrog said:

So that's how rockets fly when there's no wind - I've always wondered...

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I had to get up EARLY before the wind started up! It picked up soon after, as you could tell by the second G-Force launch.

My level 1 cert flight last Saturday was so windy my rocket ended up waaaay in the woods. :y:

Fe Dude said:

I have heard that lightly built LOC Mini-Mag's have been flown on G motors.

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I don't recommend this unless it's a really fast burning G on a day with little or no wind and flown off of a rail. Rod whip + G motor + Minnie Magg = disaster. I've seen it before.

-Dave

You could probably scratch build some nice 4" rockets fairly reasonable. Fly clusters or composite motors. Stay with card board tube...more likely thick wall would work fine.

RocketManDan said:

You could probably scratch build some nice 4" rockets fairly reasonable. Fly clusters or composite motors. Stay with card board tube...more likely thick wall would work fine.

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Well, I did build a 3-3.5" or so about 3.5 feet long from scratch. I put four heavy basswood fins on it though, and only a 24mm motor mount. I have never flown it, ran it through a sim, swing tested it or anything. It got painted black and it sits in my closet. I'm kinda thinking it's not stable, but would of course test it to be sure before ever thinking of launching it. I wish now I had put a 29mm motor mount in it, but whatever. It's so heavy, even if I got it stable, I'd be afraid it might be too heavy for anything but a more powerful composite or reload. We'll see. It looks like an Executioner with an extra blade, heavy and longer. :eyepop:

I too love large mid-power rockets. I do full ex and have access to a small field, so I have gotten quite good at building rockets that come down within a few hundred feet of the pad on G motors.

The trick is not so much the design, but the materials and construction techniques. In order to build large and light, you absolutely must learn how to hand-roll your own paper tubes and fabricate your own nose cones. Paper mache and styrofoam are my primary build materials. You can go really light and strong with internal bracing. I'm pretty sure I've posted my techniques in the past.

In terms of design, I just love to upscale classic Estes rockets. My favorites are the Mosquoto and the Gyroc. I think I'm up to a 4x Gyroc and a 6x Mosquito now.

Saucers are another good option.