Need quick purchase advice on Epoxy to purchase for LoC IV assembly

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rickster75

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Can anyone tell me how much and of what kind epoxy to purchase to assemble a level 1 LOC IV kit..
 
rickster75 said:
Can anyone tell me how much and of what kind epoxy to purchase to assemble a level 1 LOC IV kit..
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I am a WEST System fan. I've been using it for 35 years for everything from building canoes to building rockets. It was developed by the Gougeon brothers who were boat builders so they developed the best epoxy for boat building that has the least harmful results for users.
 
epoxy can get pretty pricy. For a nice big L1 kit like this, i would go with the 13oz Bob Smith 20 minute epoxy you can get at a local hobby store. You're going to have lots of bonding area with the big fins and body tube plus you won't be pushing things far aerodynamically with a 4" kit in the level 1 impulse range.

PS use two layers of latex gloves. When one layer starts to get sticky with epoxy you can take that off and, bam, fresh clean glove underneath.
 
Chad said:
epoxy can get pretty pricy. For a nice big L1 kit like this, i would go with the 13oz Bob Smith 20 minute epoxy you can get at a local hobby store.
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Isn't the 20 minute their finishing resin equivalent? It is very thin. My personal preference is the BSI 30 minute epoxy, or even wood glue for this kit.

Good idea with the two layers of gloves, I'll give that a try next time.
 
mbeels said:
Isn't the 20 minute their finishing resin equivalent? It is very thin. My personal preference is the BSI 30 minute epoxy, or even wood glue for this kit.

Good idea with the two layers of gloves, I'll give that a try next time.
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you know, i was looking up the stuff on amazon because i couldn't remember the exact name, i knew it was "bob <something>". And you're right, it says finishing epoxy. I've always just used that but it is a little runny which makes things like motor mount rings a pain. I haven't tried the thirty minute stuff is it more like a paste like rocket poxy?
 
Why use epoxy for a LOC kit? Get yourself some Titebond II for the structural joints and then use some Titebond Mold and Trim to make nicer looking fillets. Easy peasy. No gloves required and can be found at most any hardware store.

However, if epoxy is your thing then I'd recommend Rocketpoxy which off the top of my head can be found at Madcow Rocketry or Apogee Rocketry. I think there are other vendors that carry it but don't recall who...

-Dave
 
Personally I've gone to wood glue for that size of construction, but if you want to use epoxy BSI 30 minute's cheap but effective for construction, and I like rocketpoxy if you want the big fillets.
 
Really, any epoxy you can find is going to be OK for the job. I'd get what you can find in bottles, since the mixing tube syringe systems probably won't be enough for your use. Another tip is to get some parchment paper to mix small quantities on. You can put two lines of epoxy next to each other and then mix them together right on the surface. It makes it easier to get a 50:50 mix than estimating what you pour into a cup. You'll also want a box of popsicle sticks to mix and apply with.

5-minute and 30-minute Bob Smith is thicker, more like molasses. Epoxy clay can be really hard to sand smooth if you don't get it the way you want it before it sets. Personally, I like System 3 SilverTip epoxy, with microballoons or wood flour as easily sandable fillers, but there are may paths to glue nirvana.
 
I built my LOC IV using Titebond 2 and maybe 3 only. if I were to have used epoxy it would have been AeroPoxy 6209 as that's what I have. Fillets would have used Rocketpoxy, as that's what I have and like.
 
solid_fuel said:
I built my LOC IV using Titebond 2 and maybe 3 only. if I were to have used epoxy it would have been AeroPoxy 6209 as that's what I have. Fillets would have used Rocketpoxy, as that's what I have and like.
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IS this available locally? Also has your LOC IV held up ? do you still have it?
 
boatgeek said:
Really, any epoxy you can find is going to be OK for the job. I'd get what you can find in bottles, since the mixing tube syringe systems probably won't be enough for your use. Another tip is to get some parchment paper to mix small quantities on. You can put two lines of epoxy next to each other and then mix them together right on the surface. It makes it easier to get a 50:50 mix than estimating what you pour into a cup. You'll also want a box of popsicle sticks to mix and apply with.

5-minute and 30-minute Bob Smith is thicker, more like molasses. Epoxy clay can be really hard to sand smooth if you don't get it the way you want it before it sets. Personally, I like System 3 SilverTip epoxy, with microballoons or wood flour as easily sandable fillers, but there are may paths to glue nirvana.
Click to expand...
Microballoons?
 
rickster75 said:
Microballoons?
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West 407 is one brand of these though I use an equivalent product under the Fiberlay brand. When mixed to a creamy peanut butter consistency, they are magical for finishing fillets. The epoxy stays where you put it, self-levels without sagging, and sands easily. It’s not super strong so I usually do the main fillet with wood flour, rough-shape that, and then do a skim coat with microballoons for the finished product.
 
rickster75 said:
The kit is recommending this Putty for Assembly?

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Building_Supplies/Epoxy_Clay/FIXIT_Epoxy_Clay
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That was the first epoxy I bought other than "box-store" when I first started in rocketry, not too long ago.
On the recommendation of the same source as yours and before I discovered TRF.
I wasn't happy at all using it for fillets. Too thick and set up too quick to get good flow out and a pain to sand smooth after it cures.
I would never consider it for assembly. I can't imagine using for spiral filling either.
I'm hard headed and I like to over build because I have no where to fly anything bigger than a bottle-rocket and I love epoxy! LOL
Following the recommendations for wood glue would absolutely be appropriate.
For epoxy, I've been using BSI 30 minute and 5 minute lately, but before that, most of my builds have been with the 5 minute Loctite syringes.
For fillets I do like rocket-poxy, it has more work time than "fix-it" and has the word "rocket" in it. :cool:
Do a search for "epoxy", "epoxy fillets", "spiral filling" and you will find HUNDREDS of posts, tips, guides and arguments about what's best.
What's best is what's best for you and your rocket.
Keep it simple and strong.
 
boatgeek said:
You'll also want a box of popsicle sticks to mix and apply with.
Click to expand...

I always cut off one end of my Popsicle sticks, and at a slight angle. I find the flat / cut end helps mix & scrape better; ensuring a more thorough mix. (I also wipe my stir sticks afterwards.. No need to toss them each & every time!)

Remember how epoxy works: it seeps in the cracks, crevasses, voids and pores of the parts being glued. The longer the cure time, the more time it has a chance to seep into these voids to get a better & stronger bond. Sand / scratch up the areas where the epoxy is to be applied, for this very reason.

You can also use cornstarch, baby powder or even balsa dust as a thickener for fillets. I think we will all agree that the putty is an easy solution, but is a filler with no structural strength. A thickened epoxy will still absorb itself into the materials being bonded. There are many methods to pulling fillets, but they take time & practice.

Always keep a sheet of paper towel in your other hand, to quickly wipe up & clean off the applicator (stick), drips, runs, etc..
 
Most people start out with Bob Smith epoxy. I haven't used TiteBond, but it sounds reasonable for cardboard/wood joints. (You want a thicker formulation for bonding, such as the 5m and 30m; the thinner formulation is for laminating.)

Proper surface preparation is more important than epoxy formulation. There are differences between different epoxies, but none that are critical for early forays into HPR. For further reading, check out my Epoxy Basics video.
 
I like aeropoxy; both the structural and thick for fillets. I've gotten used to using epoxy for almost all of my builds, save for the very small rockets. I like the longer duration cures (when I make mistakes); allows more (re)-positioning time

E6209 for structure
E6279 for fillets (peanut buttery, sandable, use the plastic cap from the BSI Accelerator bottle for rounding HPR, or the cap from a sharpie for MPR/LPR)

BSI stuff is good.

West Systems is good too. I use it at work, would use if I didn't have to order/wait for shipping

JB Weld also sells decent 5m/20m stuff if you only have a local hardware store close by and no hobby shop.

Just .02$

fm
 
Even 5 minute epoxy is stronger than LOC plywood and cardboard. If the parts fit well you can use wood glue. If you want to build fast use 5 minute epoxy. I usually build LOC parts rockets with 5 minute epoxy. You can hold the parts in place until the epoxy sets then move on. You can get 5 minute epoxy at a home improvement store or even Wal-mart.
 
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