Amazon rocket engine prices?

I was shopping for some E12-6's the other day and first went to amazon. They wanted nearly 50 bucks for a 3 pack not including 'haz mat' shipping.

I then just punched in E12-6 in google and found a hobby chain store got a three pack for a little over 20 bucks including shipping!

What is up with that?

A: They are shipping illegally. Or
B: Hazmat will be added at checkout.
E-9 and larger are over 30 grams EACH of propellant. Hazmat applies.

No , he outlet I ordered form specifically stated "HAZMAT - USA 3rd Class Ground Shipping Only" $8.00 !

The ones at Amazon state "Free Standard Shipping" ?

What site had the low cost including hazmat shipping? Share, please

Sure I did not know if it was cool to link them. I have never heard of them before. But they have E sized motors on sale.

https://www.hobbylinc.com/e-model-rocket-engines

Hobbylinc most of us know about or have purchased from before (including me). I think their shipping practices may or may not be a bit "questionable" or at least uninformed.

Tom said:

Sure I did not know if it was cool to link them. I have never heard of them before. But they have E sized motors on sale.

https://www.hobbylinc.com/e-model-rocket-engines

Click to expand...

If they're charging $50/3-pack base price plus $8 shipping, it's a pretty similar total to $20/3-pack plus normal hazmat shipping. The bonus for them is that if the customer orders 2 or 3 packs, there's a hefty profit since the shipper only pays one hazmat fee.

I paid 18 plus 8 shipping so 26 bucks. That's half of the amazon price.

I only ordered one pack though being unfamiliar with the company. Should have gotten some others.

IIRC you could order BP Estes E and F motors a few years ago without paying HAZMAT fees. I ordered from Estes, Belleville, and Discount Rocketry without paying those fees, but they have since changed the shipping policy, no doubt in response to a change in the regulations. Looks like Hobbylinc hasn't updated theirs, so it appears to be a case of being uninformed. I have ordered numerous items from Hobbylinc but they do not ship motors outside CONUS, unfortunately.

Thanks. I ordered from Hobbylinc a few times, with good experiences.

FWIW, I found some E12s at my local Hobby Lobby for a reasonable price. They also had Fs. Don't see them carrying Gs anymore.

I haven't ordered engines from them, but paints, etc, several times. Be aware that they can be SLOW to ship, as in nearly a week or more for stuff. But otherwise I have no complaint with them.

There's also AC Supply. $14 for 3 E motors, $16 for two F motors, but the $35 hazmat for E and larger... I've had great experiences with them.

Are they sold by Amazon, or Amazon approved vendor.

"I gotta guy..." phamous Philly saying. Anyway, Why not become a dealer of AeroTech or Cesaroni? Depending on your location and what people predominantly fly. Lucky enough that our Club guy is a Cesaroni dealer.

if you're concerned with the motor prices, I guess you haven't seen their costs for actual rocket kits!!

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listing/B000BVL50C/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new

$58 for a Big daddy?! Seriously? (it should be about $35 - $45 locally / thru proper rocketry online stores)

Might check out BMS. I found good prices and service

HazMat shipping is simply a regulatory requirement. How much they charge, that's a commercial decision.
So, buy from the vendor who's giving you the best value for your dollars.
It can't be the first time you've noticed 'zon (or anyone, really) charging a premium. Good way to make easy bucks off of lazy or uninformed shoppers.

HazMat is not a government regulatory requirement in any shape form or fashion. DOT does not require HazMat charges. HazMat shipping charges are in place due to the Carrier. FedEx, UPS, and others that created it. I know they spend a lot of time and money training drivers to carry HazMat. So I assume the costs are just being passed down to the consumer.

quickburst said:

HazMat is not a government regulatory requirement in any shape form or fashion. DOT does not require HazMat charges. HazMat shipping charges are in place due to the Carrier. FedEx, UPS, and others that created it. I know they spend a lot of time and money training drivers to carry HazMat. So I assume the costs are just being passed down to the consumer.

Click to expand...

Not only do those companies spend money training drivers, but they also have to train and certify individuals to manifest, and verify that the paperwork is filled out correctly and that no materials are co-loaded that are not compatible (there are are tables in 49CFR just for this as well as placardable quantities and reportable quantities) lots to know in in the HazMat shipping and transportation world. I do HazMat shipments almost everyday, today's load is Non-Flammable Gas (139 SCBA cylinders from a fire station to another one for filling), some days its chemicals or even radioactive waste (hot stuff on occassion).

Oldschool77 said:

A: They are shipping illegally. Or
B: Hazmat will be added at checkout.
E-9 and larger are over 30 grams EACH of propellant. Hazmat applies.

Click to expand...

I think the point was not "Why is Hobylink so cheap?" but rather "What the heck is up with Amazon?!"

Hobylink: $20 includes hazmat shipping for a three pack? Surprising.
Amazon: $50 plus hazmat shipping for a three pack? Insane!

No matter how you slice it, the Hazmat fee is at least $20 nowadays and Estes E engines must ship Hazmat since they have over 30 grams of propellant. Not everything on Amazon is sold by Amazon, so you can have 3rd party sellers that can price products however they like.

Never assume that Amazon has the best prices. Sometimes they do. Often they do not, but there's a convenience factor that makes it worth paying what they ask. Often, neither is true.

If the HazMat fee is solely a carrier requirement (I don't know if that's the case) and not in law...technically, one *should* be able to legally ship materials by that carrier without paying the HM (by simply lying about the contents) and without incurring the wrath of law. In practice, if ever a HM contributed to a fire or something similar, the company would immediately climb on the carrier's @ss, and the carrier would be on yours. Civil suits not legal ones. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I do not play one on TV (or other media). And I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

prfesser said:

If the HazMat fee is solely a carrier requirement (I don't know if that's the case) and not in law...technically, one *should* be able to legally ship materials by that carrier without paying the HM (by simply lying about the contents) and without incurring the wrath of law. In practice, if ever a HM contributed to a fire or something similar, the company would immediately climb on the carrier's @ss, and the carrier would be on yours. Civil suits not legal ones. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I do not play one on TV (or other media). And I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

Click to expand...

It’s not the fee the law cares about, it’s compliance. And compliance isn’t complete without documentation. Which you are paying for.

In IL, my weekday company ran into a lot of issues with DOT regs and the state police. Who can stop, cite and fine DOT violations. The vans that courier between sites were suddenly getting targeted and fined thousands each day for (mostly) the stray blank spots on forms. Out of the blue, after 40 odd years of daily trips.

It turns out that some consultant had come through the area teaching classes to police forces on DOT regs and how to spot corporate carriers.

It might not seem fair, but it’s the law. We can’t carry a sample across the street on foot without proper paperwork. It’s being ‘conveyed’ over a public roadway.

Charles_McG said:

It’s not the fee the law cares about, it’s compliance. And compliance isn’t complete without documentation. Which you are paying for.

Click to expand...

In other, shorter words, the law requires paperwork (and probably other special measures?) but it's the vendor who decides how much, if anything, the consumer must pay for that.

It might not seem fair, but it’s the law. We can’t carry a sample across the street on foot without proper paperwork. It’s being ‘conveyed’ over a public roadway.

Click to expand...

Sure the law's the law, and a certain degree of enforcement discretion is allowed, by centuries of precedent regarding hundreds of laws if not explicitly.

jqavins said:

In other, shorter words, the law requires paperwork (and probably other special measures?) but it's the vendor who decides how much, if anything, the consumer must pay for that.

Click to expand...

I believe that's right - if you mean the carrier as the vendor. The carrier vends transportation. The retailer/sender gets charged and passes it along.

jqavins said:

Sure the law's the law, and a certain degree of enforcement discretion is allowed, by centuries of precedent regarding hundreds of laws if not explicitly.

Click to expand...

And enforcement is never automatic nor even. And sometimes it's even targeted for the purposes of revenue.

The challenge of compliance is why I gave up shipping alcohol. Because for alcohol it's not just complying with the federal regs - it's complying with the state (and occasionally county) laws of every where you ship to. At least flammable solids is just DOT.

I meant the retailer/sender. The carrier decides how much to charge the vendor of merchandise, who one expects will pass that along, but may or may not do so. Or may eat only part of it, build it into the listed price rather than making it explicit, or even inflate it. In other words, the vendor incurs a cost decided on by the carrier, but as a consumer I don't care about that; I only care what the vendor decides to charge me.

It's too bad this has driven you out of shipping your product. I have been thinking I'd like to give your stuff a try without having to drive up to Wisconsin.

jqavins said:

It's too bad this has driven you out of shipping your product. I have been thinking I'd like to give your stuff a try without having to drive up to Wisconsin.

Click to expand...

For me, it isn't hazmat - it's excise and sales tax, and the permits and reporting that go with them. Fedex, at least, has been making a major push to drive compliance. I'm not sure i can even send out a sample for lab testing these days.

Some of my products have gotten to New York. I don't know where, though. Probably geeky beer shops. Any place that carries Cantillion can get Aeppeltreow.

1.) If the HazMat fee is solely a carrier requirement (I don't know if that's the case) and not in law...
2.) technically, one *should* be able to legally ship materials by that carrier without paying the HM (by simply lying about the contents) and without incurring the wrath of law.
3.) In practice, if ever a HM contributed to a fire or something similar, the company would immediately climb on the carrier's @ss, and the carrier would be on yours. Civil suits not legal ones. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I do not play one on TV (or other media). And I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night

1.) Yes it's true, search Google and spend the time researching it, you will find that yes it is the truth. (DOT does not require HazMat Fees, the carriers do.)

2.) One could. You would need to do the research and apply the proper labels. DOT loves to find "Dangerous goods" in transport that do not have to proper labeling.

3.) What you are saying is true. In theory the simple answer common ole Joe can ship hazardous material (dangerous goods) legally as long as he follows DOT's regulations.

There are other things included with that. UPS and FedEx require that you pass a Hazardous material class. With out their training they will not pick your package up. That alone would shut Ole Joe down and his package would never get off the ground. In other words, the feds cant shut him down (as long as he follows the law) but the carriers can.