SpaceX Falcon 9 historic landing thread (1st landing attempt & most recent missions)

Ohhh...FUDGE!


https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/15/18311945/spacex-falcon-heavy-center-core-drone-ship-rough-ocean

well...Drat! however they did land it successfully, bet they will not have the same problem next time.
Rex

Are they still planning the whole "Roomba" idea? I feel like I vaguely remember the prototype of what was thought to be a tie down mechanism got burned up at some point, but that could be the figment of a failing mind.

Cl(VII) said:

Are they still planning the whole "Roomba" idea? I feel like I vaguely remember the prototype of what was thought to be a tie down mechanism got burned up at some point, but that could be the figment of a failing mind.

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That's what I was thinking. They said that it was unsafe for the team to secure the vehicle because of heavy seas, but I thought they had a robot to do at least *some* of that. Apparently not?

I saw an article that said it is still in use - but wasn't used on this booster because the attachments for the boosters interfere with the way the Grabber works.

Charles_McG said:

I saw an article that said it is still in use - but wasn't used on this booster because the attachments for the boosters interfere with the way the Grabber works.

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Aha. I bet they fix *that* before the next FH launch.

From the actual article linked to in post #3331:

"Apparently, SpaceX’s octagrabber just needs some upgrades so that it can nab the center core, according to SpaceX CEO Elon Musk. On Twitter, he noted that these attachments were not ready in time for last week’s landing. In the meantime, he noted that SpaceX may be able to save the engines of the core, though there was no mention of the rest of the booster."


Tony

manixFan said:

From the actual article linked to in post #3331:

"Apparently, SpaceX’s octagrabber just needs some upgrades so that it can nab the center core, according to SpaceX CEO Elon Musk. On Twitter, he noted that these attachments were not ready in time for last week’s landing. In the meantime, he noted that SpaceX may be able to save the engines of the core, though there was no mention of the rest of the booster."


Tony

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-shamefully hangs his head-

RTFA Chris!

Thanks

Initial reports were that the Falcon Heavy core fell "overboard", lost at sea.

More recently, there have been reports that it "fell over", and is laying on its side on the deck. Won't be into port until early Thursday morning, so no pics till after sunrise.

If it is still on the deck, at least they can still study it for how well it held up, as this was a very fast hot re-entry. Also to check out the condition booster mechanical connections, something they didn't get the chance to study when the first FH core splashed down (figuring they can determine what's fall-over damage and what's booster separation & re-entry damage). Also to possibly salvage many engines, depending on what got crushed/damaged as it fell and hit the deck.

The next FH mission, STP-2 for the Air Force, has a brand new core being readied for it, so at least the schedule won't be delayed by this fallen-over core (any more than the typical Falcon Heavy scheduling tends to be delayed). Currently NET June 22nd.

The next launch will be CRS-17, an ISS resupply mission using a Dragon-1, NET April 26th (little over a week away).

georgegassaway said:

Initial reports were that the Falcon Heavy core fell "overboard", lost at sea.

More recently, there have been reports that it "fell over", and is laying on its side on the deck. Won't be into port until early Thursday morning, so no pics till after sunrise.

If it is still on the deck, at least they can still study it for how well it held up, as this was a very fast hot re-entry. Also to check out the condition booster mechanical connections, something they didn't get the chance to study when the first FH core splashed down (figuring they can determine what's fall-over damage and what's booster separation & re-entry damage). Also to possibly salvage many engines, depending on what got crushed/damaged as it fell and hit the deck.

The next FH mission, STP-2 for the Air Force, has a brand new core being readied for it, so at least the schedule won't be delayed by this fallen-over core (any more than the typical Falcon Heavy scheduling tends to be delayed). Currently NET June 22nd.

The next launch will be CRS-17, an ISS resupply mission using a Dragon-1, NET April 26th (little over a week away).

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I think I recall reading somewhere, possibly an Elon tweet, where someone asked if they salvaged anything from the center core and Elon replied "the engines". If that is true then what you are saying about the core laying on the deck makes sense.

Mostly on the recovery ship.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-heavy-tipsy-booster-return/amp/

When it fell and hit the edge of the deck, the upper 2/3 broke off. So, some of it did fall overboard.

Big pipe inside that is snapped, is the Oxygen line.

I wonder what the costs are of the section that remained vs if the entire booster had been lost?

Musk said the engines can be reused, although some of the nozzles are probably trashed. Those 9 engines have got to be a very large percentage of the entire booster section. Maybe 75%? Only 50%?

And I wonder if there's anything worth keeping except for the engines? Probably one or more of the legs can be removed and used on a future booster, and there's got to be a lot of smaller parts inside that lower section that are in great shape, but are they worth salvaging? I'd love to hear details.

Mushtang said:

I wonder what the costs are of the section that remained vs if the entire booster had been lost?

Musk said the engines can be reused, although some of the nozzles are probably trashed. Those 9 engines have got to be a very large percentage of the entire booster section. Maybe 75%? Only 50%?

And I wonder if there's anything worth keeping except for the engines? Probably one or more of the legs can be removed and used on a future booster, and there's got to be a lot of smaller parts inside that lower section that are in great shape, but are they worth salvaging? I'd love to hear details.

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Problem is it will not be financially viable to reuse a lot of it. I suspect they will tear down what’s left to look for issues that may be unique to the FH Center Core and the particularly hot rentry. Aside from refurbishing the engines I imagine the rest will be thrown on the recycle scrap heap. Legs may be damaged or stressed from the rocket sliding across the deck so possibly not worth the risk.

There's a nice pair of grid fins and an oxygen tank floating/sinking around out there somewhere.....

Nytrunner said:

There's a nice pair of grid fins and an oxygen tank floating/sinking around out there somewhere.....

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Well, that'd be four grid fins, not two. Presumably the upper part sank, either the tank cracked on hitting the ocean or valves may still have been in the vent position (No valve inside the huge LOX pipe leading from the tank, AFAIK). I think (but am not sure) that all of SpaceX's "fleet" have returned. If there was anything floating with those four expensive grid fins attached, I'd be surprised they would not have assigned a ship to try to retrieve what they could, if practical. Actually, the way it may have hit, the Interstage might have snapped off from the Oxygen tank, in which case the interstage would have sank quickly, taking the grid fins with it. If the tank alone floated, it would have served no purpose to retrieve but for technology security reasons they would probably arrange to have it sunk. I just think it all sank.

Here's a photo showing the damaged core being lifted up to be put onto a transporter.

...and here's me, wondering what position the gridfins might have ended up in / how it would have spiraled down.

If they were all fully open it could have sailed a long, long way.

dhbarr said:

...and here's me, wondering what position the gridfins might have ended up in / how it would have spiraled down.

If they were all fully open it could have sailed a long, long way.

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It landed just fine on OCISLY but fell over in rough seas when it was heading back to port.

davdue said:

It landed just fine on OCISLY but fell over in rough seas when it was heading back to port.

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I think he meant after that section fell off the barge. The fins could have steered it underwater on the way down to the bottom, either in a spiral or with a lot of horizontal movement, depending on their position.

I'd never thought about that and it's a good question. My guess is that if the fins were all open they would probably help the section go straight down and not a long ways away.

dhbarr said:

...and here's me, wondering what position the gridfins might have ended up in / how it would have spiraled down.

If they were all fully open it could have sailed a long, long way.

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I figure you mean as it fell to the ocean floor. In any case, the grid fins close after landing. Although, they may simply come down due to gravity rather than locking closed, dunno.

In theory the grid fins might be worth enough to justify a salvage operation. SpaceX would likely have the GPS coordinates of where it was when it fell. Unless it happened at night and was not discovered for hours, the tugboat being hundreds of feet away. Dunno if they keep the ASDS powered up, with cameras, lights, all electronics, and other things running once configured for being towed (so they could review video to see when it fell and work out the coordinates). Also as your message implies, where it fell, and where it ended up on the ocean floor are not the same thing, so it could be tricky search (tricky = more $ every day). But I'm thinking they won't do it.

Ohhh...MEGA-FUDGE!

"SpaceX’s Crew Dragon spacecraft suffers an anomaly during static fire testing at Cape Canaveral"


https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/04/spacexs-crew-dragon-spacecraft-anomaly-static-fire-testing/

"Just six weeks after splashing down in the Atlantic Ocean following a successful Demo-1 test flight, the same SpaceX Crew Dragon spacecraft was set to perform multiple static fire tests on Saturday to verify that the capsule’s propulsion systems were functioning properly ahead of an inflight abort test planned for the summer. However, during the testing, the spacecraft suffered a significant anomaly. The incident will likely lead to further delays with NASA’s Commercial Crew Program."

Other info indicates the Dragon was "nearly destroyed". It was doing static test firings of its Super-Dracos, and whatever happened seems to been related to the second test.

This pretty much pushes any crewed flight until 2020. And that assumes the cause is something simple and easy to fix, and not something requiring major redesign. Also, now they have to come up with another Dragon-2 to do the Abort test with, or use the one slated for the EFT-2 crewed launch for the abort test and use another one down the line for the first crewed flight. But no point in doing the abort test until they find out the cause of this accident, fix it, and fly the "fixed" version in the abort test.

There is a thread about it on the NASA SpaceFlight Forum:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48003.0

Fortunately, no injuries were reported.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/04/20/spacex-confirms-anomaly-during-crew-dragon-engine-test/

Report by Scott Manley:

There is a video of it on the Tripoli Facebook page. M-80 in a watermelon was my first thought.

Found this on the NASA SpaceFlight Forum thread I linked to earlier.

A Twitter post with an embedded low-res video of the Dragon being there one moment and totally blown apart the next. KABOOM.

THIS IS REALLY BAD.

Click on the link below to see the video:
https://twitter.com/Astronut099/status/1119825093742530560

They were getting ready for a firing. The video's audio is not too clear, right before it blew, there seems to be the words "ten, nine". But in the background, hard to make out, seems like a countdown from the beginning, reaching one, then the louder voice is heard saying something and what may be "test" rather than "ten".

The Dragon-2 has COPV Titanium spheres wrapped with composite to increase burst strength. The Super Draco engines have a chamber pressure of 1000 PSI, and are pressure-fed, so the COPV's have a lot more than 1000 PSI pressure in them (and should be rated for 20-30% or more than they would be pressurized to). Whatever caused the chain of events, it probably caused one COPV to burst, which in turn blew the Dragon apart, including many if not all of the other COPV's.

UPDATE - someone posted the video on Youtube, with the frames moving once every 2 seconds.

Really nice pics you posted, RocketGeekInFL!

The original video (real-time with sound) of the Dragon explosion was deleted by the twitter user. But copies are out there. Here's one. Warning - language.

Maybe Bob can repost that one too (Hi, Bob).'

There's a pretty good article on ARS Technica about the accident, what is known (and not known) as of the time it was written:
https://arstechnica.com/science/201...KlDH-0b312ocY1eFD0r6z_xr9w7OVauwrfyUIFC-FEwUg

The next Falcon-9 launch is NET April 30th, at 4:22 AM EDT. It will launch CRS-17, a Dragon 1 Spacecraft to resupply ISS. Apparently (so far, at least), the Dragon-2 explosion is not going to affect the launch (Dragon-1's do not have the Super-Dracos and do not have the extremely high pressure tanks that Dragon-2's use. The regular Dracos for orbital maneuvering and docking use a lot less pressure).

The booster was going to land back at the Cape, but Landing Zone 1 is off-limits for now as the static test explosion was a few hundred feet from the landing pads and there is still toxic contamination to be cleaned up (wind blew the toxic cloud out to sea, going thru the area where the landing pads are). So, it will be an ocean ASDS landing, but relatively close to shore, one reference I saw was about 17.5 miles).

Sad to see that Happen.

The reddish-brown gas is nitrogen dioxide (NO2), a very toxic gas. Nitrogen tetroxide (N2O4) is a liquid at room temperature and pressure with a low boiling point. It does not take much energy to make nitrogen dioxide from nitrogen tetroxide. Any contact of nitrogen tetroxide with water produces nitric acid. Nitrogen tetroxide has a tendency to get out of place, if not handled carefully, reference the Titan II that blew up in a silo years ago. The situation of astronauts sitting on top of large amounts of hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide, which is a hypergolic combination, does not strike me as a very comfortable situation, especially in light of this latest accident.

georgegassaway said:

The original video (real-time with sound) of the Dragon explosion was deleted by the twitter user.

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Expected. That was unauthorized personal recording of internal test footage that wasn't approved for public distro yet (the X has plenty of such failure footage the public won't see for awhile)

L2 portion of nasaspaceflight is rife with such NDA violations from what I hear as well.