Matt_The_RocketMan
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Today i tested a new rocket Known as Astron Explorer and i used an E9-8 engine , the rocket blew up immediately on launch, i do not know what caused this so answers are needed plz ad thanks!
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Rocket Malfuncion
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E9’s are notorious for catos.
Mr Rocket
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It is known as a CATO. E9's are well known as being particularly vulnerable. It is usually thought to be caused by mishandling, dropping or temperature cycling. Although there are some batches of E9's that are known to be bad. What is the batch number?
Again, I would ask the lot number.
I am seriously thinking of building one or two small models to fire a cluster of two 24 mm motors. I have enough nose cones and I just need a few more BT's, which are on order. I have some old E9's that I want to burn up. After that I may test fire a cluster of two 24 mm composite motors. If I can get that to work, I will use composite 24 mm motors in my Double Shuttle.
Yes, to second the previous postings, E9s have a reputation for CATOing. Probably not anything that you did, just a bad lot. You notice that Estes doesn't sell them anymore? Any motor can CATO, but if you have a high value rocket I would sub an E12 for an E9. It will get up to stable speed faster. Use whatever E9s you have left for rockets that you don't mind losing.
Yes, do file a MESS report for compiling the statistical survey. And call Estes customer service, they will REPLACE your Explorer and the engine.
Yes, do file a MESS report for compiling the statistical survey. And call Estes customer service, they will REPLACE your Explorer and the engine.
Matt_The_RocketMan
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Yeah it was a big no no for me so enjoy the explosion tho
"Jamie got big Boom"
Matt_The_RocketMan
Well-Known Member
Ill report all that could of happened
1) The engine burnt all the way through no nozzle left
2) it was a secondary engine type (my bad for not using a E12-6)
3) it was a structural failure
4) the engine bay might of not been built properly (this is why i found the bottom half shoved quite badly)
5) The heat shield we found showed indication of an explosion there was a predominate dent that almost burnt through 2cm of steel.
6) bad engine like you suggested a CATO
1) The engine burnt all the way through no nozzle left
2) it was a secondary engine type (my bad for not using a E12-6)
3) it was a structural failure
4) the engine bay might of not been built properly (this is why i found the bottom half shoved quite badly)
5) The heat shield we found showed indication of an explosion there was a predominate dent that almost burnt through 2cm of steel.
6) bad engine like you suggested a CATO
ThirstyBarbarian
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Were you flying in cold weather? Our club sees more E12 and E9 catos on cold days.
Matt_The_RocketMan
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Uh yeah it was 42 when we were flying it
how come the B6-4 before we shot this rocket did not do this?
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
That sucks... check out your remaining motors for the date codes shown below.
Matt_The_RocketMan
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What can i do if my batch of engines are bad? Do i get refunds?
ThirstyBarbarian
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Usally when this kind of motor explodes, it blows the nozzle out the bottom, and blasts burning propellant forward through the rocket. The blast can be like a shotgun going off. I’m not surprised it could have damaged the blast plate. Most likely there was nothing wrong with the rocket. The 8-second delay didn’t have anything to do with it. The most likely thing was a defect in the motor due to manufacturing defect, storage and handling damage, or temperature conditions.
The 18 mm BP motors have a very low or no susceptibility to Cato's. I have never seen an 18 mm BP motor Cato under normal circumstances. I did make an 18 mm BP motor fail in my 1965 science project by cooling the motor down to -10 Deg.F. by placing it in a plastic bag and putting the bag in a dry-ice alcohol bath. Results of the science project are listed below. It should be noted that Shread Vector has stated that the temperature cycling does crack the grain, but separates the grain from the paper case increasing the burn surface area that way.
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ThirstyBarbarian
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If you call up a Estes Customer Service or send them an email, they will probably send you a replacement rocket and a replacement pack of motors (probably E12 motors). They won’t want you to send them the remaining motors. You can use them in rockets you are willing to risk. Or you can soak them in water to destroy them and then throw them out.
Condolences on that rocket. Estes Customer Service will put it right.
Matt_The_RocketMan
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Hopefully i can get something from this experience - thanks for the help!
In the mere future i think ill shoot our Mean Machine - hopefully using the E12-6 wont fail on us agian....
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
E12's have their issues also....
ThirstyBarbarian
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I would avoid flying E9 and E12 motors if it’s cold out. That’s when most of the problems happen. Cold seems to increase the odds of something going wrong with that kind of motor.
You could try an Aerotech E20 motor like this kind. https://www.hobbylinc.com/aerotech-...motor-2-e-composite-model-rocket-engine-52007
These kinds of composite motors are not as affected by cold. If you have a 12-volt launch controller, it will work fine with the kinds of igniters included with these motors. If you have a 6-volt controller, you would need to buy these igniters. https://www.hobbylinc.com/estes-sonic-model-rocket-igniter-pro-series-ii-4-rocket-motor-starter-2305
E20 composite motors are more powerful and louder than E12 or E9 motors.
You could try an Aerotech E20 motor like this kind. https://www.hobbylinc.com/aerotech-...motor-2-e-composite-model-rocket-engine-52007
These kinds of composite motors are not as affected by cold. If you have a 12-volt launch controller, it will work fine with the kinds of igniters included with these motors. If you have a 6-volt controller, you would need to buy these igniters. https://www.hobbylinc.com/estes-sonic-model-rocket-igniter-pro-series-ii-4-rocket-motor-starter-2305
E20 composite motors are more powerful and louder than E12 or E9 motors.
I'm partial to the E15. It's actually the same motor as the E20 but usually a bit cheaper. *Great* replacement for the E9 or E12, albeit not as long-burning.
They also cat o a lot on hot days, and also on warm and in between days.
dr wogz
Fly caster
interesting, I had always though it was mainly due to storage in an environment that sees a big temp swing through the day / week / season..
Matt, I have a nicely dented blast deflector from exactly the same motor & CATO.. it' s abit of pride I guess!
You can just abut see the diameter of the nozzle as it 'stamped' itself into the plate.
Matt_The_RocketMan
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interesting, I had always though it was mainly due to storage in an environment that sees a big temp swing through the day / week / season..
Matt, I have a nicely dented blast deflector from exactly the same motor & CATO.. it' s abit of pride I guess!
I was indeed shocked to see how violent the explosion was, but i am kinda pissed because i just had bought the launch pad for like $30 brand new and now the deflector plate it messed up... but like i said " Jamie got big Boom"
dr wogz
Fly caster
Blast deflectors work no matter what their shape. They get pretty dirty and rusty after a few years!
Battle scars!
Nytrunner
Pop lugs, not drugs
Old spent circular sawblades make deflectors with real character
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Tractor discs are great as well.
Matt_The_RocketMan
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Filed a Failure report to the motorcato.org i hope that my E12 does not do the same thing.... if it does that's just on Estes
Matt_The_RocketMan
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So Estes sent me a special package today , i didnt know what it was until i saw its contents. Thank You Estes / Warranty!
i will begin building asap maybe i can finish it this week but it will be a tight scedual for me due to Rocketry practice and comp coming up soon but thanks to all for the support!
i will begin building asap maybe i can finish it this week but it will be a tight scedual for me due to Rocketry practice and comp coming up soon but thanks to all for the support!
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