What is this obsession with "Glassing" rockets?

[Pem Tech]

OK, I am really curious about this. There are a bazzilion threads on TRF about fiberglassing everything from LPR balsa parts, to MPR and HPR from tip to tail glass jobs. Now, it is understood that some just get a special thrill from glassing rockets, like the Vatsaas Brothers for example, but is all this glassing a necessity or a preference? Research on TRF (Yes, using the search feature :neener shows that some mighty large rockets are built and flown with nary a bit of fiberglass.

So, what is your story? Why are you a fiberglass junky?

 

[cwbullet]

I enjoy layering the stuff out. I don't enjoy sanding.

 

[RWmarlow]

fully glass rocket?

 

[DAllen]

OK, I am really curious about this. There are a bazzilion threads on TRF about fiberglassing everything from LPR balsa parts, to MPR and HPR from tip to tail glass jobs. Now, it is understood that some just get a special thrill from glassing rockets, like the Vatsaas Brothers for example, but is all this glassing a necessity or a preference? Research on TRF (Yes, using the search feature :neener shows that some mighty large rockets are built and flown with nary a bit of fiberglass.

So, what is your story? Why are you a fiberglass junky?

Can I tell you why I am NOT a FG junkie?

I hate the stuff. I hate applying it, the epoxy, the mess, sanding it and the weight it produces on my projects that just don't need it. It does nothing to further my enjoyment of the hobby. If I were to get an L3 right now it would be all paper tube, plywood and wood glue.

Plus where I am at with the hobby I have no desire to shoot stuff off into the wild blue under ridiculous velocities because I just don't feel like spending that much $$ on any one flight.

That said, once the kiddos are out of the house I may have a change of heart. FG may become more of an option for me but then so will FG tubes...who knows what my mood will be then. I have nothing against people who FG their rockets but I do believe much of it is vast overkill but hey...it's your project, it's your money...whatever.

-Dave

 

[AZ_Ron]

I'm with you on the 'glassing thing. I've 'glassed a few things here and there, but have never done a full blown 'glass layup.
I've built up to 16" Diameter rockets, none were 'glassed. Flown rockets through Mach, no 'glass.
I do believe that 'glass makes them a lot more durable over the long run, with hangar rash and all.
I do plan on doing some tubes and fins soon, just to have the experience.
I don't believe it's necessary for 'MOST' rockets/flights. There are exceptions, obviously, but for the most part,
I think most people do it for the durability and the ability to get a really nice finish.

R

 

[JStitz]

I agree with Ron about durability...Mainly the landings.
I have glassed several rockets with only one 6oz layer and so far so good. The sanding is a pain.
This 6" PML is made from the old brittle Phenolic and only has a 6oz skin with 2 layers of epoxy (2nd applied while first was still green) on top and turned while curing,
It does have 6oz from fin to fin inside the airframe,screwed centering rings, and was tacked with 5 min..NOT CA.
It wasn't intended to be a 98mm Level III rocket, but has withstood several wind knock overs. Thats what I had in mind,Ejection knocks and the landing.

 

[hornet driver]

I BLOODY HATE FG--current project not included ! I don't think in most cases---extreme performance---it's required but it does give the builder another tool in the chest and opens up some options. Since all my stuff is lpr/mpr , I only use it for really hard to make with wood compound curves and other custom stuff. On the plus side, it is durable.There is also a coolness factor with a fg bird . That said, I think everyone here would benefit from working with fg and learning the quirks and benefits. Once you have it in your build arsenal your options open up a little more.

 

[GDJ]

I've used both Fiberglass and Carbon Fibre on other projects (not rocketry related) and eventho' the final product was fantastic, it is one major pain in the ass to work with. I would rather just use a dab of bondo, a couple of layers of primer and epoxy paint and be done with it on my rockets.

 

[Aksrockets]

Why are you a fiberglass junky?

For me, Fiberglassing and working with composites takes rocketry to a while new level. It's incredible to me that my entire rocket can start out as just cloth and epoxy and turn into a sturdy, beautiful flying machine. Composites opens up a whole new world of affordable options when building a rocket. I can make an all fiberglass tube for about the same price I can buy a paper one. I can make a carbon fiber one for about the same price I can buy a blue tube one of the same size.
It also allows you to control a lot of different variables in the finished product. I can control things like thickness, weight, and directional strength. A while ago, I made some fins for MasonH that were custom designed to fit his needs. The carbon fiber and fiberglass was layed up to control the strength of the fin in one direction, reducing flutter and weight. I can create any blend of fiberglass and carbon fiber I want to to give me and affordable and study product. I could go on for practically eternity about how investing in composites changed the way I build rockets.

Plus, how could you NOT want to build something like this?


I think the reason why people are turned off by composites is the amount of work involved. I always roll my eyes at this excuse. Yes! It does take a significant amount of work but there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and really put a few more hours into the things I build. IMHO a lot of people are afraid to work for their rockets. To me, It's more then worth it!

Okay, Rant over.

Alex

 

[aditat2]

I haven't really done much glassing (on modrocs) until my current project - and really all I'm doing is adding a couple of layers of epoxy - no cloth - to the fins to help give them more durability - as they are made out of "Gator Foam". Without it the fins could probably never make it through a real energetic launch. I think the worst thing about the epoxy is the problems that can develop health wise from prolonged exposure to the stuff, but then that's why a mask and latex gloves are always worn whenever I'm working with the stuff.

 

[Dipstick]

Landing damage is my biggest reason. I even glass mid power birds that won't take much. As a matter of fact, I used glass to beef up an Estes Tomahawk. I fly out of a gravel pit, our regional launch is called Rock Lake I finally have a Tomahawk that doesn't pop fins on every landing lol.

 

[sandman]

A fiberglassed rocket will make a bigger hole in the ground when it hits!:grin:

 

[Daddyisabar]

Let me put this in the 1970's language the old farts can understand. Composites are cool man, outta sight - dynamite! Can ya dig it! It is young, it is hip, it is down. Anyone flying ole tyme balsa and paper is just a Turkey man! Remember, you can't trust anyone over thirty! Power to the people! Are you just a square or are you watchin' the Mod Squad?

Or maybe a late 60's Brady Bunch lingo: "Bobby thinks glassing is really neato."

So come on old farts, learn something new. Make the great leap into the 21st Century.

Well, I for one will not change. You will have to pry that last jar of sanding sealer out of my cold dead hands. I love my dope. Golly, now I am in the mood to watch ole Festus on Gunsmoke. What network is broadcating the latest Dean Martin Roast? NBC? CBS? ABC? Only three to choose from and I like it!

 

[KenRico]

Very groovy Daddy .

Dont mean to sound like a CL casual encounters post, so . . .

So far have only glassed one project, but have not glassed a tube or molded a nc. Came out better than expected so feeling good about it.

Dealing with non hobby store epoxy for tbe first time last year with the WM Vindicator DD - learned alot about internals, externals, additives and such . Not nearly as proficient as I want to be but can now mix and use without too much muss and fuss. Mixing some up and adding some fibeerglass to the equation is not a stretch.

More comfortable utilizing in a tip to tip situation rather than fabricating a tube or nose cone - trying carbon fiber or introducing peel ply ,curing ovens, and vacuum bagging that will require some more time.

Need to keep with it though, seems like you go pretty fast reaching for 20k agl and composites are the way to get there

Kenny

Let me put this in the 1970's language the old farts can understand. Composites are cool man, outta sight - dynamite! Can ya dig it! It is young, it is hip, it is down. Anyone flying ole tyme balsa and paper is just a Turkey man! Remember, you can't trust anyone over thirty! Power to the people! Are you just a square or are you watchin' the Mod Squad?

Or maybe a late 60's Brady Bunch lingo: "Bobby thinks glassing is really neato."

So come on old farts, learn something new. Make the great leap into the 21st Century.

Well, I for one will not change. You will have to pry that last jar of sanding sealer out of my cold dead hands. I love my dope. Golly, now I am in the mood to watch ole Festus on Gunsmoke. What network is broadcating the latest Dean Martin Roast? NBC? CBS? ABC? Only three to choose from and I like it!

 

[cwbullet]

I find it therapeutic. Approach it as a mindless task that will distract you from the stresses of the world. I have a very stressful job and even painting, sanding, and fiberglassing is less stressful. That being said, I can't say that I like 2 of the three, but it is relaxing if I approach it form the right angle.

 

[CarVac]

Fiberglassing things myself is great. Like aksrockets, I enjoy true scratch building; my rockets have to be unique. Typically I spend 6 months designing a rocket before even starting; if it takes 3 days to assemble it then that's no fun at all. Even if it would take only 3 days, I spend weeks building anyway in case I change my mind, so it's more fun if there's actually something to do for that duration.

Furthermore, by laying it up myself, I can choose fiber orientations that are optimal for my uses.

Also, I can turn my nose up at all the plebeians using their mere cardboard, or worse filament-wound fiberglass.

 

[Eric1]

I glass because I like doing things.
I can escape the real world and concentrate on the build.
I like machining for the same reason. Just me and my thoughts.

 

[Tronman]

If I want fiberglass, I'll buy a fiberglass kit.

 

[bill_s]

Haven't done glassing yet, but have one design that will probably need it since the huge fins will have to be very light yet strong. But another way to build it might not need it. I considered doing some reinforcement work on my latest build. Then I accidently broke a fin (stupid). It broke different than I would have reinforced for, will probably not break on anything normal, and I could repair it 5 times (if it turns out as easy) for the amount of work glassing would be. Another idea may end up having the butt end reinforced, for landings. FG does allow the rocket to come down quicker, I built one that lands on its bumper nose instead, but don't want to do that for all my rockets.

Plus, how could you NOT want to build something like this?
View attachment 115795

I don't see any fiberglass there. I've thinking of cloning a certain all-FG rocket just because I like the way it looks, but it will a third the weight.

I think the reason why people are turned off by composites is the amount of work involved. I always roll my eyes at this excuse. Yes! It does take a significant amount of work but there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and really put a few more hours into the things I build. IMHO a lot of people are afraid to work for their rockets. To me, It's more then worth it!

Okay, Rant over.

Alex

My builds have all ended up more involved than I bargained for, as it is. Scratch building with some non-rocketry materials....

 

[GregGleason]

For me it's about strength and durability. Where I fly, there is a chance that it will land on asphalt. Having fins that are glassed will minimize or sometimes eliminate the need for repair. I hate repair. So if I spend a little more time up front to mitigate the repair risk, I'm ok with that.

Eric's words resonate with me, also.

Glassing is not for everyone. And I for one haven't picked up on any "vibe" where you are less than a true rocketeer if you haven't glassed. Once you stick an "A" impulse (or greater) motor in the MMT, you are "in". So in my opinion, I think glassing is something a minority of fliers do. Hey, we don't even have a "composite rocketry" section in TRF.

Greg

 

[T-Rex]

I am thinking of fiberglassing a tube, just because I want to learn how to add fiberglass to my sailboat. Rockets are a lot cheaper if I screw up. It is not required in either case, but I see it as an opportunity to learn a new skill and put it to use. I do not see myself graduating to full on FG rockets, I kinda like that my fleet is biodegradable.
Also, when I think about it, the Model Rocket Safety Code states that rockets will built from wood and paper for a reason.

 

[Joe V]

Same situation as Greg above, we launch just off a runway with taxiways all around us. I glass parts that usually will take the most abuse from hard surface landings. Tip to Tip the fins, and either the whole airframe tube, or just 4 or 5 inches from the end of the tube. Yes it is more work but it is also nice to hit the concrete and just have a little rash instead of major repairs to do.

 

[DAllen]

I glass because I like doing things.
I can escape the real world and concentrate on the build.
I like machining for the same reason. Just me and my thoughts.

That I get. I just don't use FG for my escapism.

 

[cherokeej]

I glass because I like doing things.
I can escape the real world and concentrate on the build.
I like machining for the same reason. Just me and my thoughts.

Brother, am I ever with you on that. That's why my garage is a fabrication shop. I go through that door into the shop, and the world goes away. Just me, my machines and tools, and what ever I'm making. The wife knows... If I'm in the shop and the phone rings... Take a message.

As for glassing... You guys haven't tried up-scaling a Cherokee D to a 4" airframe, and flying it on a 75mm Rx M. You learn very quickly that you want to do a lay up.

And it allows the use of much lighter materials. Like that Nomex core stuff. Very light, very strong, but flexible. Use that stuff for fins on anything of size and power, and you'll either do a lay up, or carry a trash bag.

 

[JimJarvis50]

According to Stu Barrett, the main advantage of fiberglass rockets is that you can clean them in the shower. There's some truth to that - you don't have to worry about getting a fiberglass rocket wet (such as when cleaning, landing in lakes, etc.).

To your question, though, I have several rockets with glassed PML phenolic tubes (two layers of 6-oz glass). One in particular has been through dozens of flights, and the tubes on it look as good as new. I'm sure that without the glass that rocket would have been history years ago.

Jim

 

[UncleVanya]

I haven't caught the condition that makes you fiberglass everything. I have learned how to do it and I have done it both tube layups and even nosecones. I see this is mostly about a certain performance envelope when I do it. If the part needs to be very light an rigid then I am willing to do the fiberglassing needed. But most of my rockets need to be low and slow pigs... so fiberglasing is an optional rather than a required thing.

I also have such limited time to spend on rocket construction that I am not strongly motivated to add tasks.

 

[H_Rocket]

So, what is your story? Why are you a fiberglass junky?

I just like getting sticky and itchy

 

[dixontj93060]

So, what is your story? Why are you a fiberglass junky?

Although I will do it, I hate repairs. Over the last decade I have tried to keep a record of rocket flights/use/crashes/repairs. I definitely have more "life" and less repairs with rockets that I glass.

 

[kandsrockets]

I just like getting sticky and itchy

Al that sounds like personal problem or a trip to your local doctor...:grin:

 

[kandsrockets]

I glass more for the transporting and storage. I had more rockets get messed up from transporting and storing them, then flying them. Plus I also enjoy doing it.