Updates...

[BABAR]

I was thinking the planet...

I thought about that too!

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I try to set a rule for no new builds until I finish the previous one but not easy when waiting a day between coats for paint to dry, so at least wait until the the primer coat is on before starting a new one. Been thinking of doing an Apogee 2 stager.

Most rockets are supposed to take a couple hours to build. If Biden wins, then expect more lockdowns in most States. If Trump wins, then we can freely go around licking doorknobs. Either, we’re gonna end up with a lot of time on our hands until June.

Winds are favorable tomorrow morning then strong trade winds for a week.

 

[kuririn]

He already got me beat on starting the 25 design plans from Apogee.
He launched the Tarmon, I haven't even done one!
Heh.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I’ve done the Tarmon, Vipox, XAM, Helios, and DC/SAM (but lost that one). Also lost the TVM-01...

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

It was an adventure today. I was dubious about using the D12-5 in the Odyssey with the tubes and blasters, but that's what Estes recommended. The delay was way too long and landed in the tree. Later that evening, we ventured back to use our tree retrieval system and successfully got the rocket, which is 98% of the rocket anyways. The camera stayed on the rocket but didn't record the launch, just 1.5 hours of bird calls.

The Galaxy Rescue worked great with the C6-5. The Ion Pulsar however did not on the C6-5 so need to add NC weight.

The Supernova flew to an impressive 580ft which is not bad for two B6 motors. The Hi-flier XL also flew to 580ft which I don't think is a misreading, just a coincidence.

The Black Brant IV clone was a little wobbly on the C11-3 so probably needs more stability weight for the D12. The front section is sealed and will need to play with OpenRocket to see what my options are.

Timeline:
00:00 Intro
00:48 Galaxy Rescue
01:54 Ion Pulsar
03:01 Supernova 580ft
04:05 Black Brant IV 434ft
05:10 Hi-flier XL 580ft
06:24 Odyssey
07:12 Tree rescue

 

[neil_w]

Keep in mind the camera adds both weight and quite a bit of drag, so it would not be surprising if you’d need a shorter delay when strapping on the camera.

I would also add that you seem to favor putting cameras on your more complex models (LEO, Odyssey). Those are super-draggy models that might already have slightly dicey flight characteristics, and you're only adding to it with the big camera lump. Perhaps you should consider focusing your camera flights on simpler rockets that are more likely to fly reliably.

Plus you're incredibly brave for strapping a camera to an Odyssey in the first place, but that's another matter.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Keep in mind the camera adds both weight and quite a bit of drag, so it would not be surprising if you’d need a shorter delay when strapping on the camera.

I would also add that you seem to favor putting cameras on your more complex models (LEO, Odyssey). Those are super-draggy models that might already have slightly dicey flight characteristics, and you're only adding to it with the big camera lump. Perhaps you should consider focusing your camera flights on simpler rockets that are more likely to fly reliably.

Plus you're incredibly brave for strapping a camera to an Odyssey in the first place, but that's another matter.

It’s a long story filled with sighs. Mistakes were made. I was gonna use the lighter SQ11 on the Odyssey but left it at home. My nefarious plan is to get video of all the complex models. I think the video of the LEO was super cool. I’m also hoping for flight video of the Mars Longship.



Anyways, I figure that the Fob wouldn’t add that much drag since there’s already drag behind it. The LEO with SQ11 went straight up but with a C5-3. Estes recommends a C6-3.



Should I try the Odyssey without camera on a D12-3 or 5? I’m thinking D12-5 and hope it was the camera that dragged it into the tree.

 

[neil_w]

Should I try the Odyssey without camera on a D12-3 or 5? I’m thinking D12-5 and hope it was the camera that dragged it into the tree.

Hmm. If it weathercocks a lot, then the -3 could be better. But they do recommend the -5.

I might be inclined to try the -3; I don’t think there’s much danger in it. If it turns out to be a bit short you can switch to the -5. Tough call though.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I may have overextended. Can’t pass up a sale (Boyce). Hope I have enough BT-80 left...

 

[kuririn]

I may have overextended. Can’t pass up a sale (Boyce). Hope I have enough BT-80 left...

It's mostly an easy build, except for the tower.
Mines came out the slightest bit crooked.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

The Estes MR has been my luckiest rocket. Hopefully, the luck will transfer to the Boyce rocket. At the Kam park, the only damage was breaking off the tower top again. Humorously, the Boyce rocket comes with 3.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Black Brant IV 24mm clone and did more trim on the LEO.

View attachment 437181

Trying to figure out how to fix the stability issues with the clone BBIV. The old plans I was following showed both 18mm and 24mm options. I made the 24mm version and figured I could use an adapter for the C motors which gives me a 1.22 cal with a C6-5. Otherwise, here's some options for adding weight.

1) The top section is sealed. I could cut off a half inch of tube connected to NC, add clay to the BT and reglue the balsa NC. 8g of clay would get the cal to 1.22 with a D12-5.

2) I could drill a hole through the balsa transition, pour epoxy/BB into the hole, plug with a dowel, and reinsert the eyelet. I've never done this before and worried that I'll melt the BT with the curing epoxy.

3) Connect weights to the eyelet under the transition. However, I would need to add 16g to get the cal to .952 with a D12-5. That would be a lot of washers to make 16g.

Opinions?

 

[kuririn]

Either option 1 or 2.
However for option 1 I would cut the tube halfway down and use a coupler to reattach after adding the weight.
For option 2 if your body tube is cardboard I wouldn't worry about the heat of curing epoxy.
I like to use foaming PU glue, like the original Gorilla Glue (the caramel colored one) to lock in nose weight.
Add a few drops of water and it expands to fill the cavity.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Either option 1 or 2.
However for option 1 I would cut the tube halfway down and use a coupler to reattach after adding the weight.
For option 2 if your body tube is cardboard I wouldn't worry about the heat of curing epoxy.
I like to use foaming PU glue, like the original Gorilla Glue (the caramel colored one) to lock in nose weight.
Add a few drops of water and it expands to fill the cavity.

Cool, I'll try option 1. With it painted already, will be interesting to see how well i can hide the cut tube. I could just cover it with a strip of white decal paper.

 

[kuririn]

Cool, I'll try option 1. With it painted already, will be interesting to see how well i can hide the cut tube. I could just cover it with a strip of white decal paper.

If you're really OC, after cutting and gluing it back together you can sand the paint off in the area of the cut, then use CWF or putty and sand smooth to make the seam invisible.
Then brush on primer, sand, and brush or spray paint. Done.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Dude you are cranking them out. How many rockets have you built this year?

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

The trade winds returned for a week so decided to launch several of the mini rockets that I've neglected over the past month or so while launching the larger rockets. The winds gust from 0 mph to 17 mph so wasn't sure what would happen and used mostly A3 motors. The gnats were surprisingly prevalent despite the wind.

Two of the A10-0T had Catos. I previously asked Estes for replacements but not sure if these were the replacements or what. I'm not sure they ever sent me the replacements. I have 3 new ones that match the serial number from the Lunar Scout. I have them separated but trying to decide what to do with them (other than disposal). They are rather spectacular at slomo when they go off.

The Star Trooper went particularly high and far on the 1/2A3 motor. For those who bought the rocket on sale from Estes last week, I don't recommend anything larger than that. The Puma and Lynx are fun to launch into the air. I finally painted the cockpit glass on the Lynx.

Timeline: 00:00 Intro
00:05 Lunar Scout
00:34 Star Trooper
01:26 Twin Factor
02:07 Mini HoJo
02:45 Mini Mean Machine
03:35 Puma
04:16 Lynx

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

The DC/SAM II. The original decided to go on an adventure. This is the 2-stager from the Apogee plans. I used the Tim method of attaching the Kevlar cord by running it along the fin and attaching to the aft MM.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

So many rockets, so little time...

 

[BABAR]

The trade winds returned for a week so decided to launch several of the mini rockets that I've neglected over the past month or so while launching the larger rockets. The winds gust from 0 mph to 17 mph so wasn't sure what would happen and used mostly A3 motors. The gnats were surprisingly prevalent despite the wind.

Two of the A10-0T had Catos. I previously asked Estes for replacements but not sure if these were the replacements or what. I'm not sure they ever sent me the replacements. I have 3 new ones that match the serial number from the Lunar Scout. I have them separated but trying to decide what to do with them (other than disposal). They are rather spectacular at slomo when they go off.

The Star Trooper went particularly high and far on the 1/2A3 motor. For those who bought the rocket on sale from Estes last week, I don't recommend anything larger than that. The Puma and Lynx are fun to launch into the air. I finally painted the cockpit glass on the Lynx.

Timeline: 00:00 Intro
00:05 Lunar Scout
00:34 Star Trooper
01:26 Twin Factor
02:07 Mini HoJo
02:45 Mini Mean Machine
03:35 Puma
04:16 Lynx

Nice!

Weird CATO on the twin factor. You booster definitely wins the “closest to the pad award!”

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

It is finished. Winds favorable on Sunday. I’m a bit nervous about this one.

 

[neil_w]

Came out beautiful. Good luck with the flight! Please don't strap on a camera.

 

[David_Stack]

That looks really nice!

Is it just camera angle distortion that makes them look like they are angled, or are the vertical fins on the shuttle supposed to be 'toed-out' like that? I would think that would result in significant drag, along with some 'rudder input' in the event they are not equally angled away from dead ahead...

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

That looks really nice!

Is it just camera angle distortion that makes them look like they are angled, or are the vertical fins on the shuttle supposed to be 'toed-out' like that? I would think that would result in significant drag, along with some 'rudder input' in the event they are not equally angled away from dead ahead...

Does seem odd but the horizontal fins have holes for the vertical fins. Seems to glide. I’m just worried it will land in the canal. Do I add weight to one side to make it spiral down or will it do that naturally. I guess we’ll find out.

 

[kuririn]

Good luck!

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Because they're typically going to be going a lot faster at burnout if they already have some velocity when they start up. Hence longer delay to coast to apogee.

Follow up question. Why does Estes recommend the B6-0 for first flight rather than A8-0?

The Hyper Bat was surprisingly an Advanced build. The booster was a little tricky.

 

[neil_w]

Follow up question. Why does Estes recommend the B6-0 for first flight rather than A8-0?

Simple matter of having enough thrust to get off the pad, and then enough total impulse to get the rocket moving fast enough for safe staging. Remember the “8” in A8 is more historical than accurate; it has less thrust than a B6.

 

[BABAR]

Follow up question. Why does Estes recommend the B6-0 for first flight rather than A8-0?

The Hyper Bat was surprisingly an Advanced build. The booster was a little tricky.

https://estesrockets.com/wp-content/uploads/Educator/Estes_Engine_Chart.pdf
They don’t list the A8-0 but the single stage max lift off weights can be used max recommended lift off weight for B6 and C6 is 113 grams, compared to 85 grams for the A8, this is also echoed specifically for the A8-0 on the Estes website, motor weight 13.3 grams, max recommended lift off weight 85 grams.

https://estesrockets.com/product/001600-a8-0-engines/
Estes A8-5 weighs in at 15.6 grams. Max lift off weight at 57 grams is irrelevant if you are using it as a sustainer IMO as the rocket is (or at least BETTER BE) at stable velocity before you even light that puppy.

https://estesrockets.com/product/001599-a8-5-engines/
So nearly 29 grams of your lift off mass is motor.

Per web site, the Rocket itself weighs 51 grams (warning, Estes listed weights are frequently different than built rockets, particularly those done by rocketeers who either overbuild or like very nice finishes.)


https://estesrockets.com/product/007217-hyper-bat/


Since two stage rockets tend to ge draggy rockets (requirement for two sets of fins, unless you go the Little Augie route*) plus with two motors in the tail often need nose weight)

So to launch your rocket on the lowest recommended motor pair, A8-0 to A8-3, and keep it under the max recommended lift weight for the A8-0, you need to build it pretty light.

I’d go with B6-0 and A8-5 for first flight. And determine before you launch who’s gonna watch the booster and whose gonna watch the sustainer, tendency is for both pairs of eyes to follow the sustainer.

 

[kuririn]

IIRC I launched the Hyper Bat on its' maiden with an A/A combo.
It was a very low and short flight.
It staged around 40 ft. and peaked at around 100 or less.
FWIW.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

So funny story. I was looking through the 2019 catalog (because I got tired of reading the 2020 catalog in the bathroom) and noticed it said B6-0 first flight, A8-0, C6-0. Now I see there is no rec for the first flight in the 2020 catalog or the website.



The motors I have are A8-0, B6-0, A8-3, B6-4, B6-6, and C6-5 & 7. If it's a clear blue sky on Sunday, I'll probably go with A8-0/B6-6. If clouds, I'll wait. My son helps with the tracking but he's not always paying attention.