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rklapp

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Hobbits in space...

I was disappointed they didn’t show the recovery. Also, I’ve never seen SpaceX recover the 2nd stage booster in the Pacific. Is it a secret? Is the recovery rate much less than in the Atlantic?
 

kuririn

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From what I've read the signal from the booster cut out during the descent.
Rocket Labs launches from New Zealand, so they recover in the Pacific.
Space X from Florida, so the Atlantic.
I found a neat vid showing a test of the helicopter recovery method.
Notice the ram air airfoil chute. Too cool.
They aren't really direct competitors with Space X, they are going for the small satellite market.
 

BABAR

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From what I've read the signal from the booster cut out during the descent.
Rocket Labs launches from New Zealand, so they recover in the Pacific.
Space X from Florida, so the Atlantic.
I found a neat vid showing a test of the helicopter recovery method.
Notice the ram air airfoil chute. Too cool.
They aren't really direct competitors with Space X, they are going for the small satellite market.
Air Force (or CIA) used planes to recover films descending under chutes deployed from satellites.

 

rklapp

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I thought I saw something about SpaceX recovering the 2nd stage in the Pacific using Just Read the Instructions drone ship, or do the Falcon’s 2nd booster burn up in the atmosphere?
 

kuririn

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As far as I know just the first stage is reusable.
Second stage is what brings the payload to orbit.
So it's referred to as a "partially reusable" rocket.
 

Scott_650

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As far as I know just the first stage is reusable.
Second stage is what brings the payload to orbit.
So it's referred to as a "partially reusable" rocket.
Recovery of the upper stage was in the original concept and they worked on ways to do it - adding ablative shielding, using a balloon, etc... but they hit a point of diminishing returns, every bit of weight added to make recovery possible took away payload weight. Smaller payloads means smaller payouts from customers so making the upper stage disposable made more economic sense. The BFR/Starship development makes it a moot point anyway since the “upper stage” is supposed to be all part and parcel of the orbital spacecraft.

Recovery of the upper stage was a magnitude of difficulty higher than the first stage since the upper stage hits orbital velocity - that’s a bunch more energy to get rid of!
 

rklapp

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I wonder if the 2nd stage parachutes into the Pacific and they fish it out of the ocean. I’m not sure if it’s high enough orbit to completely burn up.
 

kuririn

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From Scott's post it seems that it would cost more to return it in a reusable condition than to build a new one.
 

kuririn

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Also, the ISS is in what's considered a low earth orbit. Some of the craft bringing cargo replenishments are designed to be expendable. After unloading they are filled with the stations' garbage and end their service with a fiery return to Earth.
Sniff.
 
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Antares JS

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I’m not saying reusable, but maybe recycle the structure.
Not possible. Falcon second stages get obliterated hitting the atmosphere at orbital speeds. Like Scott_650 said, it's just too much energy to get rid of easily. Some scraps of metal might fall into the ocean rather than being vaporized, but nothing worth recovering.
 

rklapp

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1605917211762.png


Also, found this:

For the Starlink launches into a low low earth orbit, apparently, the 2nd stage is just passivated and left in a slowing degrading orbit to re-enter and burn up after a few months.

It usually de-orbits & (most!) burns up, but the helium tank and nozzle components are pretty durable. Favourite fireworks show site is south of Australia. If a problem then it may be sent into SOLAR obit! To tricky to recover it intact.

 
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rklapp

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After exactly a month, finally received my Belleville order. Not sure if the wait is worth the discount.

3E65DA40-392A-4275-84E7-157B2429C71E.jpeg
 

kuririn

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Yeah, since the order contains motors they are required to send it by Parcel Select.
Translation: slow boat from the west coast. Not allowed to ship by air.
Usually about three weeks or so, longer with this pandemic thing.
Check out the thread on Big Daddys and lawn darting before you start working on it.
 

rklapp

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Yeah, since the order contains motors they are required to send it by Parcel Select.
Translation: slow boat from the west coast. Not allowed to ship by air.
Usually about three weeks or so, longer with this pandemic thing.
Check out the thread on Big Daddys and lawn darting before you start working on it.
It's labeled Surface Mail Only so yeah. The shipping cost was $47.10. What's weird is that sometimes I get motors from Estes in 3 weeks and sometimes I get the motors from Estes in 3 days. This just happened last week.

The problem with taking so long to receive an order is that I forget what I ordered. I forgot that I ordered the Sci-fi NC pack and ordered a pack from Estes. Oh well...
 
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kuririn

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The tracking # for my Estes order says Out for Delivery today.
Ordered on the 16th.
No motors so they shipped it Priority Mail.
Not bad. I guess it helps if it's between the election glut and the Christmas rush.
 

BABAR

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I ordered a keychain camera from China. Ebay says shipped, expect delivery between Dec 10 and Feb 5.....
 

Jay Chladek

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Stage 2 would have to recover from near orbital velocity. So it would need a heat shield to do that. Too much weight added to the launch vehicle would make it not as viable for launching payloads.

I know SpaceX at one time looked into potentially recovering upper stages, but the challenges versus the hardware gains, not to mention the thermal loads from reentry don't offer high reward at all. Granted similar stuff was said about recovering stage one at one time. But SpaceX was able to make it work. Even then one of their stages did get a bit too hot on reentry, resulting in it being unusable for future flights. But that is one failure versus a fair number of successes.
 

OverTheTop

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Regarding the sample returns from the Corona/Keyhole satellite that were parachuted back to earth, AFAIK they never lost one one of the sample return capsules. There was one that ended up in the drink but was eventually recovered, after much effort , from the sea floor with nothing in usable condition.

If you want an idea what a Keyhole-class satellite is just look at the Hubble Space Telescope. It is a Keyhole-class satellite, but facing away from earth. There is an amazing 1/4 scale replica of the film transport mechanism at the Smithsonian in DC. A true engineering masterpiece for its time.
 
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rklapp

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rklapp, how well did the parts fit your BT-80 tube on the Boyce MR?
Excellent. Used a bit of CWF to smooth the transition. Two coats of primer and two coats of paint smoothed the 3D printer grooves in the plastic. The only problem is getting the vinyl letters to stick to the capsule. This is my first dual deployment so fingers crossed (when the winds stop).
 

rklapp

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Completed my Checkmate clone (green). The 2nd stage of the DC/SAM III is ready. The new teal paint started bubbling so I heated the can in hot water. This fixed the bubbles but the paint crackled over the first attempt so had to sand and repaint twice more. I replaced the NC for the Odyssey that was lost when I rescued the rocket from the tree. I also replaced the NC for the Egg Lofter. Finally, I fixed the Ion Pulsar MM and attached an engine retainer. Will likely venture out on Thursday morning with 9 mph winds so A and B motors only.

379CD2E8-9C08-462E-999F-B54EAC3E230D.jpeg
 

Jay Rairigh

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Excellent. Used a bit of CWF to smooth the transition. Two coats of primer
Hmmm... The shoulder diameter for my Juno is .075 smaller than the ID of the BT-80 tube. I'll do some things to get it to fit, but I was disappointed.

But you got the printer grooves taken care of without sanding them out? That's good to know.
 
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