Coronavirus Outbreak

[cwbullet]

I have thought over the last hour or so after reading some of the most recent responses on Coronavirus. There are a lot of statements from backseat drivers that we need to do things differently. This pandemic is a learning experience. It is different and we need to adapt to the new virus. Most importantly, we need to listen to the experts and lower our risks so that we help prevent infections for our country and the World. Panic and criticism are not productive. I would suggest if you know better, get out there and help. I am sure your local emergency services will soon take volunteers.

 

[Marc_G]

That right there is something I'd been missing and a very informed statement. Thank you.
It's GMT+1 here. I'll let you know what screening entails late Sunday night

Meanwhile ... enjoy this lovely sunrise
View attachment 408935

Best of luck to you. But, won't that flight be cancelled per the new order effectively closing the border with EU? If I were you I would try to get a flight departing UK which is likely to have fewer cancellations since it is exempted from the ban.

 

[Winston]

What Does the Coronavirus Do to the Body?
March 12, 2020

https://www.yahoo.com/news/does-coronavirus-body-120916551.html

Excerpt:

Are the lungs the only part of the body affected?

Not necessarily. Compton-Phillips said the infection can spread through the mucous membranes, from the nose down to the rectum.

So while the virus appears to zero in on the lungs, it may also be able to infect cells in the gastrointestinal system, experts say. This may be why some patients have symptoms like diarrhea or indigestion. The virus can also get into the bloodstream, Schaffner said.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that RNA from the new coronavirus has been detected in blood and stool specimens, but that it’s unclear whether infectious virus can persist in blood or stool.

Bone marrow and organs like the liver can become inflamed too, said Dr. George Diaz, section leader for infectious diseases at Providence Regional Medical Center in Everett, Washington, whose team treated the first U.S. coronavirus patient. There may also be some inflammation in small blood vessels, as happened with SARS, the viral outbreak in 2002 and 2003.

“The virus will actually land on organs like the heart, the kidney, the liver, and may cause some direct damage to those organs,” Schaffner said. As the body’s immune system shifts into high gear to battle the infection, the resulting inflammation may cause those organs to malfunction, he said.

As a result, some patients may endure damage that is inflicted not just by the virus but by their own immune system as it rages to combat the infection.

Experts have not yet documented whether the virus can affect the brain. But scientists who studied SARS have reported some evidence that the SARS virus could infiltrate the brain in some patients. Given the similarity between SARS and COVID-19, the infection caused by the new coronavirus, a paper published last month in the Journal of Medical Virology argued that the possibility that the new coronavirus might be able to infect some nerve cells should not be ruled out.

 

[Nathan]

Not true. That is like saying another earthquake will not make a difference cause we already have 1000. Each new epicenter will add more and more cases;. It is important now to reduce the spread. That is done through less travel and leg public gatherings. It is important to remain calm and not overreact, but it also important to protect ourselves.

A better analogy would be a forest fire. If the forest is already burning in 1000 places, then just preventing new fires from starting won't stop the whole forest from burning down.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I guess you don't realize that the countries most affected by the disease are in the Northern Hemisphere. It's still WINTER in the Northern Hemisphere so the temperatures in the "warm weather " countries is still lower than normal. There won't be a significant warm-up in the Northern Hemisphere until, gasp, April. Try again. sonny, you amuse me. Heard about many corona cases in let's say Brazil?

Brazil Could Have 4,000 Infected with Coronavirus within 15 Days after 50th Case

RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL - A study by the Pensi Institute, a clinical research center in pediatrics at the Sabará Children's Hospital, shows that as soon as Brazil has confirmed 50 cases of coronavirus, the country could reach more than 4,000 cases in 15 days and approximately 30,000 cases in 21 days.

According to the Ministry of Health, the country has gone from 50 confirmed cases on Wednesday, March 11th, to as many as 69.




https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-n...-with-coronavirus-in-15-days-after-50th-case/

 

[Mushtang]

A better analogy would be a forest fire. If the forest is already burning in 1000 places, then just preventing new fires from starting won't stop the whole forest from burning down.

That depends on how the fire is being dealt with.

Are the 1,000 fires contained with fire breaks so that they can't start other areas of the forest burning? If so then yes, preventing new fires will make all the difference and the rest of the trees will remain unaffected.

Are the 1,000 fires free to run around the forest to see basketball games, go shopping in the forest mall, and go to their work every day? Then no, preventing new fires won't make a difference.

Maybe some, or most, of the fires are contained and some are not. Keeping new fires from starting will allow those trying to contain the non-contained fires to work more effectively.

I'd say the less new fires that are started the better if you're trying to avoid burning down the forest.

 

[grouch]

A better analogy would be a forest fire. If the forest is already burning in 1000 places, then just preventing new fires from starting won't stop the whole forest from burning down.

Dig that hole just a bit deeper. All forest fires eventually die out. Either naturally or by the hardworking of the professionals that have trained a lifetime to deal with such an event. I'd guess these folks wouldn't cotton to you running around starting new fires while they are working hard to save your house.

These analogies are fun. Say someone is shot in the stomach buy some an angry person that can't find toilet paper. As the victim is lying there fighting for their life, another angry toilet paperless seeker attempts to shoot this poor person again to relive their misguided frustrations. Their take on it is that a second or even third hole won't make much of a difference because they are already on the ground possibly dying anyway. Wouldn't you think it would be best to limit all future damage while the first issue is dealt with?

Say you come out of the grocery store after all day of hunting down a package to TP only to find someone backed into the front fender of your much beloved car. At the same time you see an old lady backing out of her space, not paying attention and well on her way to backing into the right fender. Clearly using your line of thought you would do nothing to stop her as the car is already damaged anyway. Heck, you might even run over trash cans on the way home just to prove the point.

 

[afadeev]

Banning travel from Europe will do nothing since therer are already over 1000 cases in the U.S. and certainly many more who are contagious but don't yet have symptoms. We need to also quarantine the whole country for two weeks.

Not true. That is like saying another earthquake will not make a difference cause we already have 1000. Each new epicenter will add more and more cases;. It is important now to reduce the spread.

Lots of confusion after last night's speech.
As reflected in today's markets.

A few clarifications here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...e-restrictions-uk-europe-speech-a9396131.html

Bottom line:

• Trade is still on, despite what Trump had said
• Travel is still on, for US citizens, permanent residents, and immediate family members of U.S. citizens, though it just got harder as airlines are starting to cancel flights
• Panic is still on * 2

That right there is something I'd been missing and a very informed statement. Thank you.

I'm sorry, but were you seriously expecting that from our government?
It had stopped doing that a while back.

 

[Mushtang]

I'm sorry, but were you seriously expecting that from our government?
It had stopped doing that a while back.

Swine Flu
On April 17, 2009 the CDC reported the first case of Swine Flu in the U.S.
On April 27th the WHO declared it a pandemic.
On April 28th the first U.S. death occurred.
On May 4th the CDC reported that Swine Flu had spread to 36 states.
On October 24th President Obama finally took action and declared it a national emergency.
3433 people in the U.S. died.

Coronavirus
On January 7th, China confirmed an outbreak of Coronavirus in Wuhan, China
On January 19th the first U.S. case was reported
On January 31st Trump announced travel restrictions from China.
As of March 12, 30 people have died.

More will get sick for sure. Unfortunately more are definitely going to die. Suggesting that our government did not do what it should when faced with a threat that was completely unknown, misunderstood, and the information from different parts of the world was conflicting, is just politics on your part and not an accurate description of what the options were. Also, hindsight is 20/20 so pointing out things that *could* have been done a month ago using today's information is not making an honest point.

 

[Titan II]

Lots of confusion after last night's speech.
As reflected in today's markets.

A few clarifications here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...e-restrictions-uk-europe-speech-a9396131.html

Bottom line:

• Trade is still on, despite what Trump had said
• Travel is still on, for US citizens, permanent residents, and immediate family members of U.S. citizens, though it just got harder as airlines are starting to cancel flights
• Panic is still on * 2

I'm sorry, but were you seriously expecting that from our government?
It had stopped doing that a while back.

When are people going to stop the biased political crap?

 

[Peartree]

When are people going to stop the biased political crap?

If you read the stuff that Hamilton and Adams were writing about one another two hundred years ago, the answer would seem to be... never.

 

[James Duffy]

...from the nose down to the rectum...

Wasn't that a line from a P-Funk jam?

 

[afadeev]

When are people going to stop the biased political crap?

Yeah, like this:
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/^GSPC?p=^GSPC

 

[grouch]

Fear does weird things to people. What’s your point?

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

It’s not “political crap” to point out that the President addressed the nation in a nationally televised Oval Office address and gave out inaccurate and incomplete information.

He literally said that no trade or cargo would enter the country from Europe for the next 30 days. That’s not even remotely true. Completely false. That statement triggered a lot of futures trading bidding the market down in real time during the speech. This was a prepared teleprompter speech. Why can’t they get this stuff straight? How can you put out a false statement about something that important that will obviously tank the stock market?

 

[Marc_G]

I personally freaked out about his statement that it was about people and cargo, as this sparked a huge supply chain set of concerns. His address was bungled, in both script and delivery.

 

[Speaknoevil]

Yeah, let's all stop paying taxes!
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/j...ment-should-suspend-tax-collection-2020-03-12

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

My main takeaways when I watched the speech were that there will be travel restrictions, which I think is probably a good idea, even if he blew it on communicating the scope and what it would apply to. And there would be some kind of economic measures, although I’m not sure exactly how much of that is a done deal or how effective it would be.

But my main concerns and questions were not addressed. What is going on with testing? Where are we at with that? Not a word about it. There have been conflicting and inconsistent statements about the availability of test kits from the president, Vice President, HHS secretary, and others over the past week. This speech was a chance to clear it all up. He didn’t even talk about it.

What is the government doing to deal with the spread of the virus domestically? Maybe travel restrictions will help prevent incoming cases, but it’s here already. It’s not all coming in from overseas. It’s spreading in our communities. How are we dealing with that? Is our healthcare system ready? Will there be enough hospital beds, ventilators, caregivers, medicine, etc.?

Also there was misinformation about the health insurance industry. He said something about a deal with the insurance industry to waive copays for tests and treatment. The insurance industry is disputing the details of that. And however that turns out, it doesn’t address the even more important question of deductibles. Having your copay waived doesn’t help you if you haven’t met your deductible yet.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Try again. sonny, you amuse me. Heard about many corona cases in let's say Brazil?

Brazilian president's press secretary tests positive for coronavirus, days after meeting Trump

(CNN) Fabio Wajngarten, the press secretary for Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, tested positive for coronavirus on Thursday, two sources have told CNN. Bolsonaro's health is being monitored.

It comes just days after Wajngarten met US President Donald Trump in Florida.

Bolsonaro's aide posted an image of himself standing with Trump and US Vice President Mike Pence at Mar-a-Lago over the weekend.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/americas/brazil-bolsonaro-coronavirus-aide-scli-intl/index.html

Ooops... Oh, wells...

 

[Speaknoevil]

Brazilian president's press secretary tests positive for coronavirus, days after meeting Trump

(CNN) Fabio Wajngarten, the press secretary for Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, tested positive for coronavirus on Thursday, two sources have told CNN. Bolsonaro's health is being monitored.

It comes just days after Wajngarten met US President Donald Trump in Florida.

Bolsonaro's aide posted an image of himself standing with Trump and US Vice President Mike Pence at Mar-a-Lago over the weekend.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/americas/brazil-bolsonaro-coronavirus-aide-scli-intl/index.html

Ooops... Oh, wells...

President Trump is in the high risk demographic. Could this be considered an assassination attempt?

 

[grouch]

At what point has the shark been jumped?

 

[BABAR]

I’m not worried about the TP shortage because I have a one-square method for use in emergencies. It involves a procedure that is hard to put into words but is easy enough to understand from a simple demo. Next time you see me in person, just ask, and I’ll be happy to show you. You will be AMAZED!

I have a stack of Estes wadding hidden away. Plus it’s flame proof, so works with Mexican and Chinese food.

 

[Winston]

I have a stack of Estes wadding hidden away. Plus it’s flame proof, so works with Mexican and Chinese food.

I've got a big Christmas popcorn can full of dog barf, but that would really make a disgusting mess and I've got enough TP anyway.

 

[Winston]

Here's what everyone taking this seriously can provide.

 

[BABAR]

I've got a big Christmas popcorn can full of dog barf, but that would really make a disgusting mess and I've got enough TP anyway.

Score one for Estes!

 

[SecondRow]

Also there was misinformation about the health insurance industry. He said something about a deal with the insurance industry to waive copays for tests and treatment. The insurance industry is disputing the details of that. And however that turns out, it doesn’t address the even more important question of deductibles. Having your copay waived doesn’t help you if you haven’t met your deductible yet.

It’s supposed to be all cost sharing, not just copays. This would include deductibles. However, as someone who works for a large health insurance company and would need to know if we’re doing this in order to do my job correctly, I have heard nothing from senior management.

 

[kuririn]

Here's what everyone taking this seriously can provide.

The nightmare scenario is where the health care system is overwhelmed and there aren't enough hospital beds for the severely ill. Heaven forbid, a triage system may have to be implemented. For those unfamiliar with triage, the care is focused on the ones most likely to survive, not the most severely ill. The idea is that you will maximize the # of survivors. If this happens I see lawsuits up the wazoo. A news report states that they are floating that idea around in Italy, the situation is that severe there.
Hope the Feds can control it here and that situation doesn't happen.

 

[BABAR]

The nightmare scenario is where the health care system is overwhelmed and there aren't enough hospital beds for the severely ill. Heaven forbid, a triage system may have to be implemented. For those unfamiliar with triage, the care is focused on the ones most likely to survive, not the most severely ill. The idea is that you will maximize the # of survivors. If this happens I see lawsuits up the wazoo. A news report states that they are floating that idea around in Italy, the situation is that severe there.
Hope the Feds can control it here and that situation doesn't happen.

There are actually at least three versions on triage.

The one most commonly used when resources are available is to prioritize by degree of immediate life threatening injury, in other words, which patient is most likely to die if I don’t do something now? This is currently how most hospitals work and most acute disaster scenarios.

The second, which is what YOU are correctly thinking here if we cannot delay the spread of this virus, when resources are clearly insufficient to take care of everyone, is to prioritize based on the maximum number of lives we can save with available (but limited) resources. I remember being in that situation in Iraq in a mass casualty scenario and did not envy the chief surgeon making the calls.

The third is military triage, rarely used even in combat, which is “which soldiers/sailor/marines/airman can I patch up quickly enough to get them back into the fight to keep the bad guys from overrunning the base and killing EVERYBODY?”

 

[boatgeek]

The nightmare scenario is where the health care system is overwhelmed and there aren't enough hospital beds for the severely ill. Heaven forbid, a triage system may have to be implemented. For those unfamiliar with triage, the care is focused on the ones most likely to survive, not the most severely ill. The idea is that you will maximize the # of survivors. If this happens I see lawsuits up the wazoo. A news report states that they are floating that idea around in Italy, the situation is that severe there.
Hope the Feds can control it here and that situation doesn't happen.

If WA is anything to go by, you'll need state and local governments to step up to get any real control via isolation and social distancing. The feds issued guidance that basically mirrored the state and local guidance (can't tell which came first) but you need local enforcement to make it work.

[edit] Years ago, my dad got board certified for emergency medicine. One of the tests included a triage situation that was basically "bad accident, these 2-sentence injury descriptions, who gets evacuated by helicopter in what order and who goes by ambulance in what order?" The one that really sticks in my mind was where he had put someone with an abdominal injury in a particular slot, with the explanation "looks bad". [/edit]

 

[Winston]

The nightmare scenario is where the health care system is overwhelmed and there aren't enough hospital beds for the severely ill. Heaven forbid, a triage system may have to be implemented. For those unfamiliar with triage, the care is focused on the ones most likely to survive, not the most severely ill.

Exactly. And if that happens as it has in Italy, even people with normal medical emergencies can die.