Youth Altitude Competition Program Closed

[n27sb]

The only thing more fun than building rockets and flying them is watching our younger members do it.

I would like to offer some of my ultra light carbon fiber and fiberglass components to 2 of our members.
This includes body tube, nose cone and fin stock.You will have to supply your own materials needed to build other than that.

The goal is to design, build and fly a rocket to achieve maximum altitude

Here are the rules so far:
No more than 18yrs old, no minimum limit as long as parents allow.
Rockets need to be 24mm or 29mm.
If you want to use both diameters you will need to make your own transition.
Body segments no longer the 18"
Max 2 Body tubes
Plans or drawings submitted to me via PM
Plans can be hand drawn, Rocksim or Open Rocket. I do not use Open Rocket so send prints.
Can be single or 2 stage
Plans submitted prior to August 15, 2020
Rockets complete by November 30, 2020
Photos and results would be appreciated
Not required but would be nice if you created a build thread
Rockets need to meet all NAR and Tripoli safety rules
Fancy or complicated designs do not get extra points. Innovative ideas do.

There are no cost involved to you and the rocket is yours. You need to attempt to fly it this year but it does not need to be at a formal launch.
Results will be announced here on this Forum but your full name will be kept private.
If I get enough interest I may let the Forum vote on the entries.

As a bonus, I will also supply an Eggtimer Quark and Eggfinder GPS.
They will be supplied built or unbuilt, your choice.
I would encourage Dual Deploy, but not required.

To our Seasoned Members, If you have any input that would make this more fun please post it or PM.

The goal here is fun and education so I hope you participate.


Steve

 

[mbeels]

That's awesome, a great idea! I hope it takes off.

 

[boatgeek]

This is a generous offer! Are the altitude competitions separate for 29mm vs. 24mm? Also, is it single stage only? 29mm single stage would require a Jr. L1 or TMP on I impulse, while 24mm could be done without any certs and under FAR 101. Either diameter two-stage would need a waiver and an L1/TMP.

One possible fly in the ointment is that dual deploy requires either a cable cutter rig or BP. BP based dual deploy would require an adult mentor. That's certainly doable, but an added restriction.

 

[n27sb]

This is a generous offer! Are the altitude competitions separate for 29mm vs. 24mm? Also, is it single stage only? 29mm single stage would require a Jr. L1 or TMP on I impulse, while 24mm could be done without any certs and under FAR 101. Either diameter two-stage would need a waiver and an L1/TMP.

One possible fly in the ointment is that dual deploy requires either a cable cutter rig or BP. BP based dual deploy would require an adult mentor. That's certainly doable, but an added restriction.

Thanks for the input, That's why I asked for help.
All participants need to stay within their limitations based on age or experience.
Keep in mind that they are not competing against each other for altitude.
Rather, they are competing for novel ideas or solutions.
The goal is for the best they can do within their own restrictions.

For example, if you are not old enough to work with BP then don't.
If you can 2 stage with CHAD then do it.

That's the reason for:

Fancy or complicated designs do not get extra points. Innovative ideas do.

A very simple clean design may well win over others or maybe we will see something new that us Seniors have not thought of.

I am interested to see where this goes. Anyone that wants to donate something is welcome to join in.

The goal is to go high within ones abilities, not can I go higher than the other guy.

 

[GalantVR41062]

Why would a 29mm or 2 stage need a waiver? They could fly on 29mm G motors and stay under the average impulse and total Ns on board and under the 3.3lb/1500gram for a class 1 rocket.

Some issues with a more complex 2 stage project could be: rail exit velocity, safely recovering all parts even with a failed staging event, recovery area.

I have built a 1010 aluminum rail pad with 86" of usable rail, and this really helps getting rockets up to a stable exit velocity, I dont think a "heavy" slow burning 2 stage is a good idea off a 1/4" rod/pad setup.

I also have a personal altitude limit for a given flying field. I have flown rockets and recovered them at a local socker field complex that is 2500' square. So far I have flown to about 2300' there and recovered it, I have also lost 2 rockets only going 1850'. GPS would definitely help, or go to a local high power launch.

My daughter is only 7, so designing and building a composite rocket is not in our near future. I love designing extreme high performance rockets in OR, I will check in and see what the young minds come up with.

~John

 

[boatgeek]

Why would a 29mm or 2 stage need a waiver? They could fly on 29mm G motors and stay under the average impulse and total Ns on board and under the 3.3lb/1500gram for a class 1 rocket.

Some issues with a more complex 2 stage project could be: rail exit velocity, safely recovering all parts even with a failed staging event, recovery area.

I have built a 1010 aluminum rail pad with 86" of usable rail, and this really helps getting rockets up to a stable exit velocity, I dont think a "heavy" slow burning 2 stage is a good idea off a 1/4" rod/pad setup.

I also have a personal altitude limit for a given flying field. I have flown rockets and recovered them at a local socker field complex that is 2500' square. So far I have flown to about 2300' there and recovered it, I have also lost 2 rockets only going 1850'. GPS would definitely help, or go to a local high power launch.

My daughter is only 7, so designing and building a composite rocket is not in our near future. I love designing extreme high performance rockets in OR, I will check in and see what the young minds come up with.

~John

I didn't really understand the competition--I thought it was "get as much altitude as possible under 24mm and 29mm tubes" and not "do something innovative for altitude on 24mm and 29mm tubes." My thinking was that the largest 29mm motors are well over 125g of propellant as are a pair of the largest 24mm motors.

With the rules clarified, a "highest altitude not requiring a waiver or a cert" project would certainly be possible, though there are plenty of other options out there.

 

[ntsgators]

Hey, I’m 17 so how do I get involved in this?

 

[n27sb]

Hey, I’m 17 so how do I get involved in this?

Just submit your design to me, It can be a Rocksim file (I have Rocsim) or drawings generated by OR.
It can also just be hand drawings.
Your goal is to design a rocket using the parts I offered or your own with the intent of the best altitude you can attain. The original post list those items.

There really has been no interest in this so far so you may not have much competition.
Please feel free to ask any other questions you may have. You can send them PM if you like.

steve

 

[ghuber]

I know a certain 13 year-old who would be excited to participate. He's been advocating for trying fiberglass for months now. Is there a list of the materials you have to offer and their material/physical characteristics so he can design around that? Thx.

 

[n27sb]

The body tubes that I make are very thin wall, say .015 after you sand down the rough exterior. The nose cones have a shoulder to match and they run about .020 thick, I currently am tooled for 24mm and 29mm.
Fin stock will probably be .015 CF.
This allows for a 24mm rocket say 25" long to weigh in at around 35 grams empty.
The nose cone comes in 2 halves with flanges and alignment holes.
Parents can help, but like Homework the student should do the work.

 

[ntsgators]

The body tubes that I make are very thin wall, say .015 after you sand down the rough exterior. The nose cones have a shoulder to match and they run about .020 thick, I currently am tooled for 24mm and 29mm.
This allows for a 24mm rocket say 25" long to weigh in at around 35 grams empty.
The nose cone comes in 2 halves with flanges and alignment holes.
Parents can help, but like Homework the student should do the work.
View attachment 425505View attachment 425503

For the nose cone, since it comes in two parts, I'm assuming you have to epoxy it to make it one solid piece right? And do you know what shape the nose cone is and the length of it?

 

[n27sb]

For the nose cone, since it comes in two parts, I'm assuming you have to epoxy it to make it one solid piece right? And do you know what shape the nose cone is and the length of it?

It is a VK style about 8" long.

I will have suggestions on how to assemble later.

 

[The_Faulty]

Hey. I'm interested in participating, if I am reading this correctly, we are supposed to be making minimum diameter rockets? Or are we just trying to use your tube to do something novel? Thanks

 

[n27sb]

Hey. I'm interested in participating, if I am reading this correctly, we are supposed to be making minimum diameter rockets? Or are we just trying to use your tube to do something novel? Thanks

Not so much just novel. But ways to achieve maximum altitude using new ideas or clean designs.
You do not have to use what I offer.
Does not have to be MD.
Just giving you an opportunity to think.
You are not competing against others for highest altitude.
You are supposed to come up with ideas that will maximize altitude for your design.
Carefully read the prior post

 

[n27sb]

Sorry but this project is closed due to lack of interest.