Working on my first MPR/HP build..

[86mustang408w]

Picked up a few things to start this build, still need a few more parts. My goal is to launch for my L1 cert on an H motor(not sure which yet) within the next year. What would you recommend motor wise for a first L1 flight? Gonna be joining a club soon, just narrowing down the best one and will get in contact with some members. I'm in Bloomsburg , PA so its gonna be at least a 2 hours drive, right now I'm looking at a club in Potter County which is about 1.5-2 hours drive away. but I'm slowly finding some rocketry clubs here and there. Any positive comments are welcome!! And this thread will probably go on on for a few months so feel free to chime in. I'm happy with what I picked out, and its a good base for starting. Special thanks to RocketryWorks.com.

 

[techrat]

First get comfortable flying 29mm F and G motors. I'm still L0 -- I've flown plenty of F motors, but haven't yet flown a G, although that changes on July 1, weather permitting. The folks in Penn Yan/Potter have the best flying field I have seen on the East Coast (if you can call the Finger lakes region "east coast"). I'm with METRA in NNJ who flies out of Pine Island NY. Also get comfortable flying RMS hardware as bigger motors don't come in disposable single-use packages (some do, but they get very expensive very quickly).

If you want to L1 with an existing rocket that has a 29mm Motor Mount, you're limited to a "baby H". If you want to go bigger you will need a rocket with a 38mm Motor Mount and you'll also need the appropriate RMS hardware as well, I assume. Good luck, I am working my way there as well, but don't plan to L1 until 2024. I want to make sure I can L1 with a particular rocket I have built, and I won't be ready until I've done about 4 more "shakedown" flights.

 

[richP]

Good Luck!
https://www.payloadbay.com/index.php

 

[Hobie1dog]

Any of the 29 mm lower impulse H motors will work great for you.

 

[86mustang408w]

First get comfortable flying 29mm F and G motors. I'm still L0 -- I've flown plenty of F motors, but haven't yet flown a G, although that changes on July 1, weather permitting. The folks in Penn Yan/Potter have the best flying field I have seen on the East Coast (if you can call the Finger lakes region "east coast"). I'm with METRA in NNJ who flies out of Pine Island NY. Also get comfortable flying RMS hardware as bigger motors don't come in disposable single-use packages (some do, but they get very expensive very quickly).

If you want to L1 with an existing rocket that has a 29mm Motor Mount, you're limited to a "baby H". If you want to go bigger you will need a rocket with a 38mm Motor Mount and you'll also need the appropriate RMS hardware as well, I assume. Good luck, I am working my way there as well, but don't plan to L1 until 2024. I want to make sure I can L1 with a particular rocket I have built, and I won't be ready until I've done about 4 more "shakedown" flights.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm still picking out parts for this and looking at jollylogic chute releases. That's all new. But gonna spend most of the night doing research on all of it. Some of its new from what I remember in 2013, but some I know. But its just gonna be doing my research first. Lrob going to a launch first SOON, then go from there. I too probably won't launch until next year in the spring. Go to some launches. Do some research, then build it. I need a few more things but I got the base of it. Right now it's at 39". I feel and was told on a baby H motor it will prob hit about 2200 or so feet. Once I'm good with Ooenrocket ill be able to tell alot more. Should be a cool little build. Right now I'm thinking an Black/Orange Alpha III paint scheme. Its not an exact upscale but its what I like. And already have the stickers. This is gonna be an all winter build. I'm taking my time and making sure its solid, not super pretty and has all expensive parts. But functional and reliable for my L1. I'm not going for altitude records or speed trials. Just want to launch a MPR before I die. And I absolutely love this hobby. But I got the tube cut too. I had to do something. But also yes this is small enough to have some "shakedown" flights as well, even around here maybe...

 

[Voyhager3]

If you do your L1 with this rocket (which it absolutely can), my only concern is the landing. But as long as the field is soft, it shouldn’t matter, but if the field is hard (like compacted sand/ dirt like down here, or in the desert) but that shouldn’t be a problem, but I’d say don’t round or airfoil the trailing edge to prevent splitting if it’s ply, or to induce more drag so you don’t lose it!

And as long as you do some big ol’ fillets, internal and external, almost anything could handle most small H’s like an H128 (reload), which doesn’t have Hazmat and you could probably even just borrow a case! And a J/L is a good idea, because of shorter recovery, and if it fails the chute is still out causing drag, so it might still be fine.

Shakedowns on G’s and F’s are a great idea. And a orange and black color scheme would be very cool, but I’m a bit biased on that.

Good luck!

 

[86mustang408w]

I couldn't resist! I cut the bottom of the tube by hand, then sanded it a little bit. Fins line up, pushing against the centering ring, the motor tube dticke out about 1/2", and there is about a 3/16" lip for the aft centering rings to br epoxyed on the outside well. Nade myself a true little fin jig from cardboard instead of using tape to hold the fins for mock up's. Gonna double check it then made one from plywood 2morrow. Looking good so far, just reading, listening, and taking notes!! Man I'm pumped for this!!!

 

[86mustang408w]

If you do your L1 with this rocket (which it absolutely can), my only concern is the landing. But as long as the field is soft, it shouldn’t matter, but if the field is hard (like compacted sand/ dirt like down here, or in the desert) but that shouldn’t be a problem, but I’d say don’t round or airfoil the trailing edge to prevent splitting if it’s ply, or to induce more drag so you don’t lose it!

And as long as you do some big ol’ fillets, internal and external, almost anything could handle most small H’s like an H128 (reload), which doesn’t have Hazmat and you could probably even just borrow a case! And a J/L is a good idea, because of shorter recovery, and if it fails the chute is still out causing drag, so it might still be fine.

Shakedowns on G’s and F’s are a great idea. And a orange and black color scheme would be very cool, but I’m a bit biased on that.

Good luck!

Thank you. I will def have some flights on D and E's, maybe an F then G(I have all of them in ny other collection)to see what happens. Its light enough they will take it high enough for a "mock" flight. I'm taking my time with this, doing more reading on the jolly logic stuff, and hopefully going to a group launch soon!! But got a crapoy fin jig made. The angles are correct i just need to perfect it.

 

[techrat]

The only problem you are going to encounter is that a small rocket like that is going to be invisible after it gets to about 1000 feet. And if it's going twice that height, you're likely to not see it until way after the nosecone pops, which may make it hard to track on the way down. A lot of people recommend a 4" diameter rocket for an L1 attempt as it's draggier (for a lower apogee) and it's simply more visible. You light want to look at a LOC "T-LOC" kit, which is about $90, although it can be found cheaper from some vendors -- it's also 29mm and will fly fine on F's and G's. Also the fins do not extend past the body tube, so, no chance of a failure due to a cracked fin on landing.

I tend to build big. Even the 3" rocket I want to L1 with is 5 feet tall, so, unlikely to lose it in the sky even with an H motor. But I have 4", 5 foot tall rockets as well if my G motor shakedowns prove that an H will send it too high. But I can always add nose weight to keep apogee a little lower if I have to. I build in a payload bay on every rocket now, so I can dump in a little extra weight easily.

 

[86mustang408w]

Any of the 29 mm lower impulse H motors will work great for you.

Thank you, aiming for that. pretty much have everything but a Jolly Logic chute release. I'm def. going to get one but use my Olympus for a test mule until it's working every time. Kevlar shock cord and elastic for the recovery system. I'm so excited found a group to launch with here in P.A, so that's really got me going in the positive direction. more updates to come hoping for a fall launch on a H motor!!!

 

[Hobie1dog]

'm so excited found a group to launch with here in P.A, so that's really got me going in the positive direction. more updates to come hoping for a fall launch on a H motor!!!

Glad to hear you found a club to launch with. That will really motivate you.

 

[86mustang408w]

Glad to hear you found a club to launch with. That will really motivate you.

It has, still going as a spectator first to check it out, but should be fun. Most groups look like they have some pretty good knowledge and launch days. I have one In my sights but this is more info then I ever got a few years back, had people been this great I would have prob been a lot further by now.

 

[Hobie1dog]

It has, still going as a spectator first to check it out, but should be fun. Most groups look like they have some pretty good knowledge and launch days. I have one In my sights but this is more info then I ever got a few years back, had people been this great I would have prob been a lot further by now.

You should re-think this. Take a rocket with you, even just one, low power, simple to setup. It will be a good conversation piece to talk rockets with.

 

[Back_at_it]

I do like the idea of visiting club launches and meetings before joining. For the longest time I was completely against clubs as I didn't care for the way they were run. I don't like the idea of loading my rocket on the club pad then sitting back and waiting for someone else to launch my rocket. I also found that a lot of the clubs in my area were more focused on mid to high power which I was not interested in at the time.

I sat in on a few meeting and attended a few launches before deciding to join the club i'm in now.

As for the rocket for your level 1 flight, I would recommend something fat and draggy so it doesn't go very high. I did mine with a LOC Warlock which is about as fat and draggy as you can get other than flying a brick.

 

[86mustang408w]

Glad to hear you found a club to launch with. That will really motivate you.

Yeah I was motivated as it is, but that really was a booster!!(pun intended).

 

[smstachwick]

I’ve observed that there are two main categories in mid-power:

1. Upsized Estes-type kits, with lightweight construction to take advantage of black powder or low-thrust composite motor offerings.
2. Heavier-built kits that look, assemble, and fly like downsized high-power rockets. Thick tubes, heavy-duty internals, epoxy construction, maybe even support for electronic deployment. These are often designed to fly on higher-thrust composite motors. Sometimes they’re suitable for L1 certification attempts, other times they’re simply too hungry for altitude.

Obviously there are some rockets that are hard to classify one way or another, but these are the patterns you’ll most commonly see.

To me it looks like your scratcher is in Category 2, which is convenient if you want to advance to HPR.

If you’re going to 2200 ft for a cert, all I can recommend is that you be familiar with your equipment and field. A shakedown flight program is a good idea.

 

[86mustang408w]

You should re-think this. Take a rocket with you, even just one, low power, simple to setup. It will be a good conversation piece to talk rockets with.

I'm open to any advice. My first thought was to go and talk to people, travel is an issue and I need to be exact setting my dates up, etc. It's about a 2 hour drive if the weather even holds. I'm not planning on putting a drop of epoxy on this until I'm ready. Even though I have everything now but some hardware. I built a few Estes Pro Series back in 2013 but never had a motor above a G78 something. I have all that other stuff, and back in 2013 when I asked for advice I got negative responses people telling me to do all this other stuff first. And well now its 2023 and I still haven't launched over a G which has been my goal. I don't know what else to say but im gonna go forward this time, and do it. Maybe I'm misreading what others are telling me, if thats the case I apologize.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Just go and launch some rockets you have ready, especially when you're driving that far.

 

[smstachwick]

I'm open to any advice. My first thought was to go and talk to people, travel is an issue and I need to be exact setting my dates up, etc. It's about a 2 hour drive if the weather even holds. I'm not planning on putting a drop of epoxy on this until I'm ready. Even though I have everything now but some hardware. I built a few Estes Pro Series back in 2013 but never had a motor above a G78 something. I have all that other stuff, and back in 2013 when I asked for advice I got negative responses people telling me to do all this other stuff first. And well now its 2023 and I still haven't launched over a G which has been my goal. I don't know what else to say but im gonna go forward this time, and do it. Maybe I'm misreading what others are telling me, if thats the case I apologize.

For what it’s worth, I generally encourage people to do what they’re comfortable with, so long as they have realistic expectations and adequate background knowledge/skill.

You seem like you’re ready for building and flying a midsized rocket like this. It doesn’t seem too much of a leap for you to sim a few motors, check stability, draw up a test flight program, and go.

Assuming you’ve got a 29mm mount, I might look at AeroTech’s E24C (new!), F67W, G74W, and G80T offerings. Reloads from them or CTI are also options.

Even if the G flights don’t go to your liking, you’ll have learned much just by attempting them that you can put towards L1.

 

[86mustang408w]

For what it’s worth, I generally encourage people to do what they’re comfortable with, so long as they have realistic expectations and adequate background knowledge/skill.

You seem like you’re ready for building and flying a midsized rocket like this. It doesn’t seem too much of a leap for you to sim a few motors, check stability, draw up a test flight program, and go.

Assuming you’ve got a 29mm mount, I might look at AeroTech’s E24C (new!), F67W, G74W, and G80T offerings. Reloads from them or CTI are also options.

Even if the G flights don’t go to your liking, you’ll have learned much just by attempting them that you can put towards L1.

Thank you, yeah I picked up a book today and some have been kind enough on Facebook to give ne daily advice. I have everything for the build, and gonna shoot for an early spring launch. But wanna use my Olympus to get the jollylogic chute release working flawlessly. And going to launch this build on a few smaller motors before the H. I'm gonna do more research and testing before this baby goes up on that H. Thanks for the reply, posted some random below, but super excited to do this, and go to that launch next month.

 

[86mustang408w]

Mocked up how the forward section will be with a 4" coupler and bulk head. Need hardware yet, and gonna use 3 small screws to hole the nose cone to the upper section so its removable. Ordered everything I need, going with one more centering ring around the motor tube/fin assembly. Looking good so far, the piece with the slots is just extra used for the mock up, a solid pc will be used out of the existing body tube, ill measure it first to see if it need to be this long, but its probably perfect that length.

 

[mtnmanak]

I am out of State College - I mostly fly at URRG (https://urrg.clubexpress.com/), METRA (https://metrarocketclub.org/) and MDRA (https://mdrocketry.org/) - all three of those clubs have super mentors and people that love to help. We have a pretty large group of fliers from around PA on this forum.

If you get involved with MDRA, go find Dave Weber - he has probably certified more L1,L2 and L3s than anyone I know.

Here is my HPR primer that may help: https://www.mountainmanrockets.com/index.php/hpr-primer/

 

[86mustang408w]

Picked up some hardware from Coles and Ace. Ace only had 1/4" x 2" eyelet bolts, but with the quick links and screw for the nosecone there so thats accessible. Coles had 3/16" x 1.5" eyelet bolts, which are better than the 1/4" for this size BT. Then I needed one more nut for each one, they don't sell anything in hardware under 1/4", lol. So got a 10x24mm nut that fits almost perfect. That will work for what I want. Doing some more research. But its going good.

 

[86mustang408w]

I am out of State College - I mostly fly at URRG (https://urrg.clubexpress.com/), METRA (https://metrarocketclub.org/) and MDRA (https://mdrocketry.org/) - all three of those clubs have super mentors and people that love to help. We have a pretty large group of fliers from around PA on this forum.

If you get involved with MDRA, go find Dave Weber - he has probably certified more L1,L2 and L3s than anyone I know.

Here is my HPR primer that may help: https://www.mountainmanrockets.com/index.php/hpr-primer/

Man that's awesome, I was looking at URRG, but I joined just joined SPAAR #503 close to Lancaster. I'm hoping to hit a launch next month, to see what they offer. I'm not sure what all they offer or do(I'm hoping vendors), but if its not for me I'll find another club. This is just closer, and in PA. I'll see how this works out, but im sure I'll joined another club, prob URRG, or the ones you mentioned, ill look them up. I'm not far from you, maybe 45 to an hour I think. In Milton now, but live permanently in Bloomsburg. The fairgrounds would be a great launch spot, streaters field by it. Maybe a club can be started here in Bloomsburg in the future, but thats a long way off...

 

[86mustang408w]

The only problem you are going to encounter is that a small rocket like that is going to be invisible after it gets to about 1000 feet. And if it's going twice that height, you're likely to not see it until way after the nosecone pops, which may make it hard to track on the way down. A lot of people recommend a 4" diameter rocket for an L1 attempt as it's draggier (for a lower apogee) and it's simply more visible. You light want to look at a LOC "T-LOC" kit, which is about $90, although it can be found cheaper from some vendors -- it's also 29mm and will fly fine on F's and G's. Also the fins do not extend past the body tube, so, no chance of a failure due to a cracked fin on landing.

I tend to build big. Even the 3" rocket I want to L1 with is 5 feet tall, so, unlikely to lose it in the sky even with an H motor. But I have 4", 5 foot tall rockets as well if my G motor shakedowns prove that an H will send it too high. But I can always add nose weight to keep apogee a little lower if I have to. I build in a payload bay on every rocket now, so I can dump in a little extra weight easily.

I expected it to hit about 2500. I have a bunch of estes pro series kits yet from 2013 to build, and a Aerotech G-Force. I'm not launching until next spring, so I may use the g-force after all. But this build is def happening, and it might be used for it after all. I'm getting my other collection back this weekend which has all of those in it. So I'll see what happens... but I am making the nose cone removable. So I can add some weight if need be. And I'm using a jollylogic chute release, so it will drop almost down until that releases. I have an Olympus which I'm using to test out the chute release and get it flawless. I have a bunch of ideas, but I need to pick one and go with it. Now its just research and parts building. I have a MRDM that's not built too that might be a better heavier candidate. I wasn't planning in getting to that other collection until next year. And I want this build to be memorable because who knows what my life will bring next, I'm not sure how I made it this far, lol...

 

[86mustang408w]

I mean I'm not dead set on this for my first cert, but this baby will go up on a H motor, within the year. I'm getting access to my other collection, who knows whats there and whats not...

 

[86mustang408w]

Made myself a little fin rounding tool with sandpaper, and a router/board. Works good!!

 

[86mustang408w]

The rest of the build supplies should be here soon. I'm really debating on a Jolly Logic Altimeter, like 3 the best. But def ordering the JollyLogic chute release here soon, and experiment with that..

 

[86mustang408w]

Building the Estes Olympus as a test mule for it, also like the Alpha III paint look, its already in play so no changing that. Its not an exact upscale but the stickers sre for a Bt-80 tube, should work out nice. And its mine, so I love it..

 

[waltr]

From Milton, PA any of the clubs are a distance.
The PARA 520 club is another you may consider. We fly in central Bucks county. Probably same distance from you as the Lancaster club.
http://www.para520.com/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/paranar520/
Biggest issue we have is there are lots of trees (see photos on Facebook). If conditions (wind) is right then we do fly to over 2000 feet but with wind in wrong direction keep flights much lower.