Will the Estes Pro Series II Launch Controller (https://estesrockets.com/product/002240-pro-series-ii-launch-controller/) light a single G80?
Thanks for help
Thanks for help
Will 9V light a G80?
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Ez2cDave
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It all depends on what igniter you are using.
Dave F.
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Probably. I've flown a couple of smaller composite blues at 6V from the Electron AA controller, and I think the leads on the Pro are 30ft+.
waltr
Well-Known Member
Wrong question...
The question is: Will that launch system light the IGNITER used in a G80.
Possibly it will not ignite the igniter that comes with the G80 but I make igniters that will easily be lit with a 9V system (I use these to airstart composite motors from a 7V LiPo battery).
These are made with 40ga nichrome wire and dipped in QuickBurst ProCast pyrogen.
The question is: Will that launch system light the IGNITER used in a G80.
Possibly it will not ignite the igniter that comes with the G80 but I make igniters that will easily be lit with a 9V system (I use these to airstart composite motors from a 7V LiPo battery).
These are made with 40ga nichrome wire and dipped in QuickBurst ProCast pyrogen.
If you can find some of these they will work. They are OOP from Estes.
( OR )
The PSII Launch Controller has a JST connector for a Battery Pack, in place of the 'C' batteries. Use a higher voltage/current battery pack and the standard Aerotech Starter will be fine. (ie a 3S Lipo, if you have Lipo experience and charging equipment)
( OR )
The PSII Launch Controller has a JST connector for a Battery Pack, in place of the 'C' batteries. Use a higher voltage/current battery pack and the standard Aerotech Starter will be fine. (ie a 3S Lipo, if you have Lipo experience and charging equipment)
Tim51
Well-Known Member
Fwiw, similar to @Tractionengines, on various occasions I've airstarted 2 x 38mm I motors from a single fresh 9V Duracell battery, (via a programmed altimeter of course). So I would imagine a single G80 would not be a problem. The igniters were stock CTI ones.
waltr
Well-Known Member
CTI ignites are low current and easy to fire.
Which G80 does the OP have?? Thrust curve lists 6 different G80 motors from 6 different makers, 3 of which is OOP.
I had assumed he has the Aerotech one but this could be wrong.
Which G80 does the OP have?? Thrust curve lists 6 different G80 motors from 6 different makers, 3 of which is OOP.
I had assumed he has the Aerotech one but this could be wrong.
waltr
Well-Known Member
OK, unsure if 9V is enough. It would depend on what battery that is.
A larger battery, 3S LiPo or a sealed lead acid battery will light it.
A larger battery, 3S LiPo or a sealed lead acid battery will light it.
First it's good that you are asking.
The question indicates you do not understand electricity and motor pyro match ignition systems and motor compositions. An understanding of all of that is required to get a motor up to pressure for safe take off. Any soundbite answer you get here, will be unlikely to give you that understanding. If someone gives you a complex answer they would not know if you would understand it.
Find yourself a mentor to ask and get a full explanation from of each of those components of full ignition.
Different igniters have different power supply requirements. This is determined by the bridge wire used in the igniter. The igniter has a chemical composition. Differing compositions will require a different amount of energy as heat from the bridge wire to be transferred before the chemicals will start to ignite.
Differing igniters have different quantities of, and composition of, chemicals.
Motors have different sizes and chemical compositions. Different chemical compositions require different amounts of energy to be transferred to them to get them properly ignited.
For your specific question and example. The Aerotech G80 is made from Blue Thunder propellant... Blue Thunder is one of the easiest to ignite and a small piece is often used to add to a standard igniter for larger motor ignition.
The first fire Jr will easily light it. The controller you specify should ignite the first fire JR with the leads supplied.
HOWEVER..... Tripoli has increased it's safe distance for a G motor to 15m or 50ft. Current NAR rules are still 30 ft. So depending on which code you fly under, the launch leads might not be long enough.(the product has 30ft leads) At that point you come back to having a good fundamental understanding of electricity. For your leads to have the same resistance over the new distance they would need to have a core cross section of roughly 70% more. But you need to be the one who understands this and why. Not me. A good mentor who can explain things to you in a way YOU will understand is what you really need.
Best of luck.
Norm
The question indicates you do not understand electricity and motor pyro match ignition systems and motor compositions. An understanding of all of that is required to get a motor up to pressure for safe take off. Any soundbite answer you get here, will be unlikely to give you that understanding. If someone gives you a complex answer they would not know if you would understand it.
Find yourself a mentor to ask and get a full explanation from of each of those components of full ignition.
Different igniters have different power supply requirements. This is determined by the bridge wire used in the igniter. The igniter has a chemical composition. Differing compositions will require a different amount of energy as heat from the bridge wire to be transferred before the chemicals will start to ignite.
Differing igniters have different quantities of, and composition of, chemicals.
Motors have different sizes and chemical compositions. Different chemical compositions require different amounts of energy to be transferred to them to get them properly ignited.
For your specific question and example. The Aerotech G80 is made from Blue Thunder propellant... Blue Thunder is one of the easiest to ignite and a small piece is often used to add to a standard igniter for larger motor ignition.
The first fire Jr will easily light it. The controller you specify should ignite the first fire JR with the leads supplied.
HOWEVER..... Tripoli has increased it's safe distance for a G motor to 15m or 50ft. Current NAR rules are still 30 ft. So depending on which code you fly under, the launch leads might not be long enough.(the product has 30ft leads) At that point you come back to having a good fundamental understanding of electricity. For your leads to have the same resistance over the new distance they would need to have a core cross section of roughly 70% more. But you need to be the one who understands this and why. Not me. A good mentor who can explain things to you in a way YOU will understand is what you really need.
Best of luck.
Norm
CTI doesn’t use igniters in most of its small motors. It uses electric matches which are a low current device. Electric matches are not a good choice for APCP motors; they have very little pyrogen, whereas a true igniter is liberally coated with pyrogens. CTI is able to do that because they add a small compressed black powder pellet at the upper end of the top grain. So, the battery lights the electric match, the electric match lights the BP pellet, and the BP pellet lights the motor, very quickly.
There are lots of threads in TRF that describe augmenting igniters and electric matches to ensure motor ignition using a low current electric match.
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The G80's come with First Fire Jr. igniters. I have flown them several times off the Estes PSII controller using the C cell batteries. A 3S LiPo would be better but I have only had one issue using the C cells and that was due to old batteries. I had over a 100 launches on the batteries and they needed to be replaced.
Not at that voltage. But at much higher voltages it is possible to fuse the bridge wire internally before it gets sufficient time to transfer the energy to the pyrogen and get the chemical fire going. A good example of that is if you hold a match up to a flame. It does not ignite instantaneously but takes a fraction of a second while the flane transfers enough energy to get the chemical process going.
A bigger worry with a 20v battery attached would be a short at the firing end. You'd probably melt the cables .
Yes. The Sonic Igniters mentioned by @Tractionengines a few posts up burn too fast on a club 12V system to light White Lighting motors reliably....but they do so just fine on the PSII controller (for which they were designed). But that's kind of a niche case....
They seem to do fine on Blue Thunder motors even on 12V. But again, especially since those igniters aren't available widely anymore, it's a niche case.
For White Lightning composition, I'd only use a first fire igniter. Even then only on a new motor. The Aerotech G64 reloads that were available in Australia, were I believe imported about 10 years ago. This makes lighting them trickier even with a first fire. So again this comes back to knowing your power source, cable resistance, igniter, composition being used for the motor and age of the composition.
Will a 9v battery work has no simple answer. For example if I put it to my skin, nothing happens(usually) , If I put it on my tongue, it tingles. Different resistances, different sensitivities. 9V batteries can have very different internal resistances depending on construction and cell chemistry. The manufacturer doesn't have any obligation to tell you when this changes and this has caused issues with some flight computers. And as I have mentioned, Tripoli has increased the safe distance for E,F,G motors to 50ft. The ESTES hand launchers firing systems only have 30ft of wire. It doesn't say what the wire gauge is, so will they work with extra wire added to take you to the new safe distance, has not been addressed by the manufacturer yet.
@Steve Shannon is this worth looking at?
Thanks for asking. That’s a slight misinterpretation of the new safety code. Range personnel, such as the LCO, are allowed to be as close as 30 feet if necessary (12.3). Spectators are required to be at 50 feet 12.4).
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On rereading the new code, I can see that is the case. Without your explanation though, I don't feel it's entirely clear that the LCO can launch from half the new distance. Doesn't that put them closer in some cases than they were before?
If they were to go to half the safe distance that would put them at 25 feet. That allowance, to be as close as half the safe distance, was also provided by NFPA 1127. We’ve tried to be slightly more conservative than that by stating 30 feet in 12.3.
I'll PM you shortly.
Sounds good. Just so you know, I’m heading to bed pretty soon and your questions are pretty interesting sometimes. I might have to think about it before I answer.
You're up for election. No time to sleep. You've got voters to win over.....Sounds good. Just so you know, I’m heading to bed pretty soon and your questions are pretty interesting sometimes. I might have to think about it before I answer.
Ha! I think after years and years on this forum and on Rocketry Planet before, people have a pretty good idea of who I am, warts and all.You're up for election. No time to sleep. You've got voters to win over.....
They don't say what the wire size is, but I think it's at least 18 gauge (US wire sizes). It may be 16. My main fly-by-myself controller is one of those PSII controllers with a small (1250 mAh) 3s LiPoly inside. It would certainly fire a CTI e-match with 20 feet of wire added. I'd have to test, probably, to see if a Firstfire Jr. fired with sufficient energy. But I seldom fly anything bigger than E (with the occasional Estes black powder F) when I'm not at a club function, so chances of me actually doing this test are not great.
Since Estes doesn't currently have anything in their line for which a G motor is recommended, I don't expect they'll be addressing this situation in the foreseeable future....but I could be wrong about that.
Hello experts, can anyone please tell me if this estes pro ii 9v controller will ignite 4-1/4" copperhead igniters from 2 pack single use Aerotech F23-4FJ motor ?
Also I heard it excepts lipo battery is that true? if yes what is the best lipo battery to have for that controller ?
Thanks guys
Also I heard it excepts lipo battery is that true? if yes what is the best lipo battery to have for that controller ?
Thanks guys
Look at my post just above. I have fired Copperheads with this controller.
The trick is finding a 3s LiPoly that will fit inside and which also has one of those orange JST connectors on the discharge lead. More likely you'll need to get (or make) an adapter).
Someting like this battery: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy...html?queryID=74fdbd86ac60208b9e176deb8fd0a7a3 plus this adapter: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/xt60-fe...4507307f05728a6ebbbcedb3553fd6&objectID=84524 might work. The question is whether or not it would fit inside the controller between the springs for the C cells without too much squeezing.
The trick is finding a 3s LiPoly that will fit inside and which also has one of those orange JST connectors on the discharge lead. More likely you'll need to get (or make) an adapter).
Someting like this battery: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy...html?queryID=74fdbd86ac60208b9e176deb8fd0a7a3 plus this adapter: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/xt60-fe...4507307f05728a6ebbbcedb3553fd6&objectID=84524 might work. The question is whether or not it would fit inside the controller between the springs for the C cells without too much squeezing.
user 35280
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Look at the post from BEC right above your post
Bec thanks for pointing me in the right direction. This battery you showed how would I charge it, is there a special charger also, and what is the white wire for on the battery is that charging port ? Also 1250mah vs 1600 is just more juice in there not power right? so smaller 1250 would fit better inside battery compartment, or are they the same size? Is there even a point upgrading this to a lipo ?
user 35280
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This company might still have some available.
https://www.discountrocketry.com/estes-series-sonic-igniters-p-1699.html
