Where to Hold Recovery System in a Payloader Rocket

[jackiboi_11]

I was wondering where you would hold the recovery system in a rocket like the ultimate buzz where the MMT gives little to no room in the booster section and the payload section is sealed off by a bulkhead in regular motor eject. Would you just attach the two airframes and fly it as is without the bulkhead? Sorry if this doesn't make sense but I tried to explain it!

 

[jackiboi_11]

I was wondering where you would hold the recovery system in a rocket like the ultimate buzz where the MMT gives little to no room in the booster section and the payload section is sealed off by a bulkhead in regular motor eject. Would you just attach the two airframes and fly it as is without the bulkhead? Sorry if this doesn't make sense but I tried to explain it!

I was wanting to get one!

 

[Art Upton]

I have had LOC rockets similar, you put the parachute on the side of the MMT and dog barf the MMT and above the parachute.

 

[Art Upton]

Lots of rockets look this way for shipping reasons

 

[jackiboi_11]

Lots of rockets look this way for shipping reason

Correct but how would I pack the recovery gear for standard motor eject? I saw a build thread where the fin can was very close to the top of the booster. I cannot do DD at this moment and was wondering how i would put the airframes together.

 

[thzero]

Pretty sure there is room. It's a big rocket. Might take some ingenuity. Look up biodragens thread, I didn't see his l3 but have seen it go up fully DD with redundancy and all.

Think he probably got the avbay from loc and a stuffy tube.
Drogue goes in booster. Main goes in upper section.

Might suggest building with DD in small hpr or bigger mpr rockets first.

 

[jackiboi_11]

Pretty sure there is room. It's a big rocket. Might take some ingenuity. Look up biodragens thread, I didn't see his l3 but have seen it go up fully DD with redundancy and all.

Think he probably got the avbay from loc and a stuffy tube.
Drogue goes in booster. Main goes in upper section.

Might suggest building with DD in small hpr or bigger mpr rockets first.

I would but cant afford to spend more on DD. If I was doing motor eject would I place the recovery gear in the booster?

 

[thzero]

I would but cant afford to spend more on DD. If I was doing motor eject would I place the recovery gear in the booster?

Yeah, bulkhead on top of or in the coupler. That's a lot of volume though. I'd say ground test but....

 

[jackiboi_11]

Yeah, bulkhead on top of or in the coupler. That's a lot of volume though. I'd say ground test but....

Alright thank you!

 

[David Schwantz]

Looking at the pics of the parts, look at the NC. It is already cut and does not have the molded end with the plastic "loop" on it. Pretty sure the bulkhead is suppose to be glued into NC for recovery harness attachment. If you install bulkhead into single deploy rocket at the coupler, now you have to glue NC into top of tube or use screws or rivets to hold it in place. I saw a different thread about this bulkhead location also.

 

[jackiboi_11]

Looking at the pics of the parts, look at the NC. It is already cut and does not have the molded end with the plastic "loop" on it. Pretty sure the bulkhead is suppose to be glued into NC for recovery harness attachment. If you install bulkhead into single deploy rocket at the coupler, now you have to glue NC into top of tube or use screws or rivets to hold it in place. I saw a different thread about this bulkhead location also.

So it’s not considered a payload section correct?

 

[thzero]

Looking at the pics of the parts, look at the NC. It is already cut and does not have the molded end with the plastic "loop" on it. Pretty sure the bulkhead is suppose to be glued into NC for recovery harness attachment. If you install bulkhead into single deploy rocket at the coupler, now you have to glue NC into top of tube or use screws or rivets to hold it in place. I saw a different thread about this bulkhead location also.

Could be. Either epoxing the coupler to join the upper and lower tubes, or yeah epoxing, riveting, bolting the plastic nose cone to the upper tube.

Just seems like a lot of volume for the amount of BP in a motor ejection.

 

[thzero]

So it’s not considered a payload section correct?

If its got a payload in it, or intended to carry such, then sure.

 

[David Schwantz]

I would not consider it a payload section. But that is just me

 

[Art Upton]

Could be. Either epoxing the coupler to join the upper and lower tubes, or yeah epoxing, riveting, bolting the plastic nose cone to the upper tube.

Just seems like a lot of volume for the amount of BP in a motor ejection.

Yes, you would need to boost the charge in the motor's ejection well.

 

[jackiboi_11]

So how would you guys do it?

I would not consider it a payload section. But that is just me

 

[thzero]

So how would you guys do it?

Dual deployment....it's a big rocket.

 

[David_Stack]

The rocket you are looking at, LOC's Ultimate Buzz, is a 5.5" diameter rocket with a 75mm motor mount. If you look at the kit description on the web site it states "We offer this kit with no recovery, full recovery OR full dual deployment.".

The picture you posted is likely a 'stock photo' showing only the bare minimum parts which would be provided. Selecting 'full recovery' or dual-deployment will provide the appropriate components to build it out accordingly.

 

[jackiboi_11]

The rocket you are looking at, LOC's Ultimate Buzz, is a 5.5" diameter rocket with a 75mm motor mount. If you look at the kit description on the web site it states "We offer this kit with no recovery, full recovery OR full dual deployment.".

The picture you posted is likely a 'stock photo' showing only the bare minimum parts which would be provided. Selecting 'full recovery' or dual-deployment will provide the appropriate components to build it out accordingly.

Yes I was planning on getting the recovery option but not DD as I do not have electronics and it would be too expensive to add that and the motor

 

[Art Upton]

Yes I was planning on getting the recovery option but not DD as I do not have electronics and it would be too expensive to add that and the motor

What motor do you plan to fly this 5.5" Rocket on for Motor Ejection? It weighs a lot more then my 5.5" LOC I-Roc I built to very light weight for my single deploy L2 on a J285.

 

[jackiboi_11]

What motor do you plan to fly this 5.5" Rocket on for Motor Ejection? It weighs a lot more then my 5.5" LOC I-Roc I built to very light weight for my single deploy L2 on a J285.

With a mentor I believe it was a k600A from CTI I don’t remember what it simmed to but it was just a rough idea on what would fly form the file by LOC

 

[David Schwantz]

I also would build DD. But, you can do that but still fly it single deploy until you are ready for DD. You just do not use the bulkheads and Av Bay for single deploy. Also use either rivets or steels screws to hold the tubes together and eject the NC and main that way. Depending on your motor choice you can adjust the amount of powder to eject chute. More if the rocket volume needs it.

 

[Art Upton]

I also would build DD. But, you can do that but still fly it single deploy until you are ready for DD. You just do not use the bulkheads and Av Bay for single deploy. Also use either rivets or steels screws to hold the tubes together and eject the NC and main that way. Depending on your motor choice you can adjust the amount of powder to eject chute. More if the rocket volume needs it.

Sometimes boosting a CTI 54 motor ejection can be tricky to boost s the charge well is sealed and there is not a large area to spread extra powder on top of it like a CTI 38. IF I recall correctly the charge well is a small area in the center of the forward closure.

I'm not going to open one of mine up to look as I plan to sell most my 54mm motors and hardware in spring when I can finally make it to a launch near me for pickup. The only 54 CTI I have left are 6G motors from well before 2016 [when problems happened], including a Dual-Thrust Blue.

 

[David Schwantz]

Nice about AT is the charge well is very large and open

 

[jackiboi_11]

I’m not home at the moment but I could probably get away with a AT J450DM. When I get home I’ll sim it.

 

[jackiboi_11]

Looking at the pics of the parts, look at the NC. It is already cut and does not have the molded end with the plastic "loop" on it. Pretty sure the bulkhead is suppose to be glued into NC for recovery harness attachment. If you install bulkhead into single deploy rocket at the coupler, now you have to glue NC into top of tube or use screws or rivets to hold it in place. I saw a different thread about this bulkhead location also.

kind of like this? This is the NC that came with my 4” IRIS

 

[David Schwantz]

No, from the LOC parts picture it looks as if the base of the NC has already been cut off and the plastic loop removed.

 

[jackiboi_11]

No, from the LOC parts picture it looks as if the base of the NC has already been cut off and the plastic loop removed.

Ohh ok now I get it, sorry for not understanding.

 

[KenECoyote]

I have the 4" kit (unassembled... winter build) and waiting for delivery of the 5.5". Given this rocket is designed for whistling/"buzzing", imho you should build it dd if possible (or at least use rivets on the nose-to-payload for future dd mod) so you can use the crazy high boost motors that often don't have ejection charges (ex. Warp motors) or where the ejection can possibly be snuffed out. You want a strong punch and then a looong coast for the best whistling.

Great kit, hope you have fun with it!

 

[jackiboi_11]

I have the 4" kit (unassembled... winter build) and waiting for delivery of the 5.5". Given this rocket is designed for whistling/"buzzing", imho you should build it dd if possible (or at least use rivets on the nose-to-payload for future dd mod) so you can use the crazy high boost motors that often don't have ejection charges (ex. Warp motors) or where the ejection can possibly be snuffed out. You want a strong punch and then a looong coast for the best whistling.

Great kit, hope you have fun with it!

So probably a high thrust J or K to really get it going and then coast so it makes the whistle sounds good.