What do you think space combat would look like?

[NTP2]

Mass Effect handled that by having the Normandy have heat sinks inside the hull where waste heat could be directed to. The issue was this only would work for so long before the heat would have to be vented and the entire ship started to cook.

But you would still be 10x hotter than the background the 2 law of thermodynamics always wins, and a video game series with humanoid aliens is not a good place for information

 

[sr205347d]

You are forgetting thermal radiation the all satellites have radiators and in a vacuum you have to have them to get rid of heat. The interceptor would be visible but it could out range and out delta V the target.

Satellite tracking is done from the surface of the Earth. IR telescopes don't work from the ground due to water vapor in the atmosphere absorbing the infra-red.

A space based IR surveillance and tracking system would be required. And this would be the first target in case of hostilities.

 

[NTP2]

Satellite tracking is done from the surface of the Earth. IR telescopes don't work from the ground due to water vapor in the atmosphere absorbing the infra-red.

A space based IR surveillance and tracking system would be required.

You have a platform for that right there the satellite could scan for ships once in awhile or if you suspect that there a enemy ship close.

 

[Antares JS]

But you would still be 10x hotter than the background the 2 law of thermodynamics always wins, and a video game series with humanoid aliens is not a good place for information

But significantly cooler than other ships. Just pointing it out as a possibility.

 

[NTP2]

But significantly cooler than other ships.

I see what you did there

 

[Astrobuf]

I was looking at this thread and started wondering.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/obvious-next-project.182827/#post-2503917

If you have not watched "For All Mankind" there are several scenes that do show what combat would look like in the beginning. It is a great Drama, found on Apple TV

Astrobuf

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

There are not gong to be people fighting in space. It's also very unlikely we would see kinetic effects used in space, or at least LEO, because of the issues debris causes as mentioned earlier. Countries with the capability to kinetically destroy space based hardware would be putting their own hardware at risk by going kinetic. It would be possible to kinetically destroy a satellite in geosynchronous orbit with little to no side effects. It's also more difficult to shoot down a satellite in geosynchronous orbit. Electronic warfare is going to be where the space battle is fought. I'd bet the Russian satellite posted earlier is setup and positioned to do exactly that. Another option is terrestrial jamming to cause local outages of space based comms.

In 2007, China tested an anti-satellite weapon on a satellite, and it did cause a lot of debris. Maybe they learned a lesson from that, or maybe they didn’t.

Here’s some info about the test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test
Also, I could see a scenario in which a country that has the ability to launch something into orbit, but doesn’t actually have many assets in orbit, might decide it would be fine to put those assets at risk if it meant taking out a LOT of satellites owned by their enemy. Maybe they might not care if LEO becomes unusable. They could launch a payload of several tons of BBs with a charge to disperse them into a huge cloud. Put up millions of projectiles. That sounds like something North Korea or Iran might do.

 

[NTP2]

They could launch a payload of several tons of BBs with a charge to disperse them into a huge cloud. Put up millions of projectiles.

The world’s biggest shot gun! A scary thought…

 

[wsume99]

Also, I could see a scenario in which a country that has the ability to launch something into orbit, but doesn’t actually have many assets in orbit, might decide it would be fine to put those assets at risk if it meant taking out a LOT of satellites owned by their enemy. Maybe they might not care if LEO becomes unusable. They could launch a payload of several tons of BBs with a charge to disperse them into a huge cloud. Put up millions of projectiles. That sounds like something North Korea or Iran might do.

Yeah, I knew about that Chinese action already. Most countries that have the capability to target a satellite have lots of satellites already in orbit. Yes the North Koreans or Iranians might launch a "hail mary" type effort to take out space assets but there are two problems with this tactic. First and foremost, a crude anti-satellite weapon like you describe would take out a lot of satellites, not just the satellites of their enemy. Pretty sure the Chinese or Russians would not be too happy about having their assets taken out. Second, let's say the anti-space tactic was successful even though it caused a bunch of collateral damage. Most advanced militaries have other means of communicating in theatre that do not involve space based assets. So they'd be pissing off the entire world to produce no major tactical advantage. That said, the North Koreans are probably stupid enough to do it anyway. I bet the Iranians would not.

 

[MClark]

For up close and personal combat


From Firefly

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

The world’s biggest shot gun! A scary thought…

If you want to make it really fun, you could launch the shotgun pellets in a east-to-west orbit so they hit the west-to-east satellites at a minimum of 30,000 miles per hour!

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Yeah, I knew about that Chinese action already. Most countries that have the capability to target a satellite have lots of satellites already in orbit. Yes the North Koreans or Iranians might launch a "hail mary" type effort to take out space assets but there are two problems with this tactic. First and foremost, a crude anti-satellite weapon like you describe would take out a lot of satellites, not just the satellites of their enemy. Pretty sure the Chinese or Russians would not be too happy about having their assets taken out. Second, let's say the anti-space tactic was successful even though it caused a bunch of collateral damage. Most advanced militaries have other means of communicating in theatre that do not involve space based assets. So they'd be pissing off the entire world to produce no major tactical advantage. That said, the North Koreans are probably stupid enough to do it anyway. I bet the Iranians would not.

It would definitely be a rogue state, “we hate everybody”, anti-space move. Weaponization of the Kessler syndrome.

 

[NTP2]

If you want to make it really fun, you could launch the shotgun pellets in a east-to-west orbit so they hit the west-to-east satellites at a minimum of 30,000 miles per hour!

That would look crazy from the ground!

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

That would look crazy from the ground!

I know! Right? Let’s do it!

 

[NTP2]

I know! Right? Let’s do it!

Ok, do you know someone with a rocket that can launch into a retrograde orbit?!

 

[Wrightme43]

Gauss rifle, no atmosphere, no issue. You could toss several lines of projectiles based on probable evasive actions. It wont really take much, armor is too heavy for space, untill we can mine asteroids.

 

[NTP2]

Gauss rifle, no atmosphere, no issue. You could toss several lines of projectiles based on probable evasive actions. It wont really take much, armor is too heavy for space, untill we can mine asteroids.

AI for targeting and avoidance?

 

[Wrightme43]

I expect it would start with AI, but humans are so unpredictable, and predictable at the same time. I wonder if AI will ever be able to game out out reactions in a non regimented real life scenario.

I just imagine, a gauss rifle turret, like the phalanx, going bbrrrrrttt bbrrrrttt in angles that line up with predicted evasive actions. There would be lines of steel balls covering time, distance, and area where the target was expected to move.

Lasers to burn out eyes, radar, and heat sensors.

We already have this stuff, just not applied yet as far as I know. That means nothing I was on fast attack subs in the early 90s. Stuff is kept quiet. I expect there are many interesting things already up there.

Ever heard about the Rods from God system? Its supposedly theoretical.
I suspect it is real.

First ones to the moon wins. High ground, with a giant gravity well to earth. As R.A.H. said drop rocks on em.

 

[sr205347d]

Here is our present day space combat scenario: We have valuable satellites doing important things. There is a suspicious object maneuvering for a kinetic kill. Our stealthy interceptor, already in orbit, maneuvers for an intercept, aiming to identify and, if necessary, disable it with a blinding laser flash or perhaps kinetically. A kinetic kill would not be desirable, due to debris created.

Such an interceptor would need to have a very high delta V reserve. Small size would help with that.

Here is a slightly different scenario: Our stealthy interceptor maneuvers to rendezvous with the threat (which requires much more delta V, and time, than an intercept). It launches a harpoon to snag the threat, then pulls it out of orbit.

 

[Art Upton]

The Airforce/Space force has such a craft that spends half a year or more in space before it lands like a plane.
They have at least 2 so can keep one up most of the time.

For some reason I can't recall the number name it is called. It is launched in the shroud of a heavy lift rocket.

 

[CalebJ]

The Airforce/Space force has such a craft that spends half a year or more in space before it lands like a plane.
They have at least 2 so can keep one up most of the time.

For some reason I can't recall the number name it is called. It is launched in the shroud of a heavy lift rocket.

Boeing X37?

 

[PhilC]

ASAT weapons already exist. China and the USA have already used them. It's likely that Russia has one, and other states may be developing them. Attacks at GEO will have some warning period as the weapon is bound by the same laws of physics as other space objects, so it may be possible to manouvre the satellite out of harms way if the weapon is deteced early enough. MEO and LEO are for more vulnerable to ASAT weapons.
Commercial satellites are relatively vulnerable to laser attacks on sensors and solar panels, also to RF jamming. Milsats are usually well protected against uplink jamming and laser attacks.
Let's not forget nuclear weapons. An exoatmospheric burst could screw up the ionosphere over a region for a period of time which will mess up radio links for a while.

 

[Art Upton]

Boeing X37?

Yes , that is it.

 

[sr205347d]

Yes , that is it.

X-37B. He includes that in the link I provided.

 

[OverTheTop]

They could launch a payload of several tons of BBs with a charge to disperse them into a huge cloud. Put up millions of projectiles. That sounds like something North Korea or Iran might do.

The world’s biggest shot gun! A scary thought…

Funnily enough, something like that has already been launched. The Westford Needles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_West_Fordhttps://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/05/project-west-ford-earths-artificial-ring.htmlhttps://www.wired.com/2013/08/project-west-ford/https://in-the-sky.org/spacecraft.php?id=19059

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Funnily enough, something like that has already been launched. The Westford Needles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_West_Fordhttps://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/05/project-west-ford-earths-artificial-ring.htmlhttps://www.wired.com/2013/08/project-west-ford/https://in-the-sky.org/spacecraft.php?id=19059

Interesting! I had never heard of the Westford Needles. It’s probably good they ended that.

 

[teepot]

Nothing kinetic. Just lasers and nukes.

 

[RocketPro]

Ok, do you know someone with a rocket that can launch into a retrograde orbit?!

Yes, retrograde is not hard at all. Been done many times. In fact, most Earth Observation sats are in retrograde orbits at ~97º.

 

[smstachwick]

Here’s an answer: In-space interception of ballistic missiles on sub-orbital trajectories.

The Israelis can take this one.

https://gizmodo.com/israel-houthi-missile-first-battle-in-space-1850999081

 

[jqavins]

Here is a slightly different scenario: Our stealthy interceptor maneuvers to rendezvous with the threat (which requires much more delta V, and time, than an intercept). It launches a harpoon to snag the threat, then pulls it out of orbit.

Or a net.

Among other things, space combat will be slow, except for the interaction of two ground launched items such as the intercept noted above. You just can't do fighter plane maneuvers in orbit, where you don't have aerodynamics to generate steering forces and you do have to carry the mass of all the oxygen needed to burn fuel. An "intercept vehicle" could not be a thing like that phrase suggests, a fast, maneuverable thing. It can be fast but not very fast, or maneuverable but not very maneuverable, and not both. And it would be a one time use weapon, since maximum performance in either speed or maneuverability would use up fuel in a big hurry (the only thing that's fast).