US Rockets

[Rocket86]

I was looking at the US Rockets site, and they have a pretty comprehensive lineup of single use and reloadable motors. Reasonably priced hardware and a variety of propellants, and they have motors that seem to compliment AT and Estes/Quest. The site says they are currently not selling their motors pending NAR recertification. Does anyone have any connections with US Rockets, or information on when the motors might be available again? Thanks in advance.

 

[J Blatz]

Uh, yeah, they've been at that same status for years.

There's a story, but I ain't gonna get into it.

On the flip side, many of the kits are available, and are very cool. Check out the selection over at Bellevue Hobbies.

 

[Adrian A]

The Cliff's notes version of the story is that in the 90's, Jerry Irvine A) got into a feud with Tripoli leadership and B) got into legal trouble for shipping motors against DOT regulations and lying about it. NAR and Tripoli refuse to certify his motors and Tripoli refused to allow him to rejoin as a member. Therefore none of his motors can be flown at any TRA or NAR launch, as research motors, commercial motors, or anything else. Depending on your state, use or possession of them may be against the fire code due to being uncertified.

That said, his kits are good, and he continues to be involved in making motors for TV and other applications where NAR or Tripoli certification is not required. He tends to be vilified within some TRA circles, partly because it's the nature of clique-ish groups to pick on outcasts, and partly for bad behavior on his part, most recently including forum posts that got him banned at TRF and Rocketry Planet. I think it's too bad that he and the national rocketry organizations can't get along, because he probably still has a lot to offer the hobby if he could be more involved.

 

[Rocket86]

Thanks guys. I won't be looking for motors from them I guess. Too bad, they looked really interesting.

 

[cwbullet]

If they ever produce them, I would buy them. I would like to see more makers, but I concur with what was said above. His kits are nice.

 

[raohara]

Hi John,

Next time I see you at one of the Boeing launches I'll fill you in with what information I can.

- Rich

 

[Viperfixr]

The Cliff's notes version of the story is that in the 90's, Jerry Irvine A) got into a feud with Tripoli leadership and B) got into legal trouble for shipping motors against DOT regulations and lying about it. NAR and Tripoli refuse to certify his motors and Tripoli refused to allow him to rejoin as a member. Therefore none of his motors can be flown at any TRA or NAR launch, as research motors, commercial motors, or anything else. Depending on your state, use or possession of them may be against the fire code due to being uncertified.

That said, his kits are good, and he continues to be involved in making motors for TV and other applications where NAR or Tripoli certification is not required. He tends to be vilified within some TRA circles, partly because it's the nature of clique-ish groups to pick on outcasts, and partly for bad behavior on his part, most recently including forum posts that got him banned at TRF and Rocketry Planet. I think it's too bad that he and the national rocketry organizations can't get along, because he probably still has a lot to offer the hobby if he could be more involved.

That's the best Irvine synopsis I've seen--amazing wrap-up, Adrian. And, as much as his polarizing and opinionated posts drove firestorms on the RP forums, I could not agree more with your last point. This community seems to thrive on conflict, at times, usually unnecessary. Honestly, Jerry's probably forgotten more about rocketry than I'll know. Not having him participate in rocketry at all is a loss--throwing the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.

 

[DAllen]

US Rockets is the only company in rocketry to offer insta-ship. You get the product before paying. In fact, they are the only online vendor (that I am aware of) that does this. I suspect there is a good reason they do that. Draw your own conclusions. After talking with many people in person and online about this I've drawn my conclusions - and they aren't exactly positive.

 

[Frederocket]

US Rockets is the only company in rocketry to offer insta-ship. You get the product before paying. In fact, they are the only online vendor (that I am aware of) that does this. I suspect there is a good reason they do that. Draw your own conclusions. After talking with many people in person and online about this I've drawn my conclusions - and they aren't exactly positive.

Yep, Sometimes and more often than not, how one makes their bed, determines how they get to sleep in it. However, it would be nice to have some of those old single use motors available again.

 

[Rocket86]

Hi Rich! Maybe see you this Saturday, weather permitting. I didn't know any of the story, but I too thought Adrian's reply was very well put. I'm sorry to have missed out on those motors, but suspect a kit or two may be in the not-too-distant future. Thanks for the info everyone.

 

[JDcluster]

That isn't quite accurate....

His motors were certified up until he got in trouble. Then he started dating his motors in the date range that were still certified.
TRA & NAR found out, then immediately De-certified all of his motors.


JD

The Cliff's notes version of the story is that in the 90's, Jerry Irvine A) got into a feud with Tripoli leadership and B) got into legal trouble for shipping motors against DOT regulations and lying about it. NAR and Tripoli refuse to certify his motors and Tripoli refused to allow him to rejoin as a member. Therefore none of his motors can be flown at any TRA or NAR launch, as research motors, commercial motors, or anything else. Depending on your state, use or possession of them may be against the fire code due to being uncertified.

That said, his kits are good, and he continues to be involved in making motors for TV and other applications where NAR or Tripoli certification is not required. He tends to be vilified within some TRA circles, partly because it's the nature of clique-ish groups to pick on outcasts, and partly for bad behavior on his part, most recently including forum posts that got him banned at TRF and Rocketry Planet. I think it's too bad that he and the national rocketry organizations can't get along, because he probably still has a lot to offer the hobby if he could be more involved.

 

[Viperfixr]

That isn't quite accurate....

His motors were certified up until he got in trouble. Then he started dating his motors in the date range that were still certified.
TRA & NAR found out, then immediately De-certified all of his motors.


JD

Lets assume that's true, then is this a lifetime ban? That's a heavy penalty. Are we penalizing him without knowing exactly why anymore?

[YOUTUBE]0344qRfAOtA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[patelldp]

Lets assume that's true, then is this a lifetime ban? That's a heavy penalty. Are we penalizing him without knowing exactly why anymore?

[YOUTUBE]0344qRfAOtA[/YOUTUBE]

Honestly, this pops up every so often on this forum. Everyone unaware of the situation spews speculation, and everyone that is aware of the situation doesn't tell the whole story (for the ump-teenth time).

The guy made big mistakes. He continued to make big mistakes. And continued, and continued. Let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Frederocket]

Honestly, this pops up every so often on this forum. Everyone unaware of the situation spews speculation, and everyone that is aware of the situation doesn't tell the whole story (for the ump-teenth time).

There isn't enough ban-width to tell the whole/multiple story/s, from either perspective...:sigh:

The guy made big mistakes. He continued to make big mistakes. And continued, and continued.

Spot on...:sad:

 

[billspad]

Lets assume that's true, then is this a lifetime ban? That's a heavy penalty. Are we penalizing him without knowing exactly why anymore?

If he sends motors to NAR S & T shipped properly with the proper paperwork and if the motors pass certification testing then they'll be certified. He is aware of this.

 

[shockie]

If he sends motors to NAR S & T shipped properly with the proper paperwork and if the motors pass certification testing then they'll be certified. He is aware of this.

Since Jerry live in Kalifornification, would he have to show proof that he had a OSFM license to manufacturer . Does the NAR S&T require this documentation from CA manufacturers?

just wondering Bill


Terry Dean

 

[raohara]

+1 to what Bill said.

And if insta-ship leads people to negative conclusions then what conclusion is drawn from the fact that Hangar 11, Bellevue Hobby, and Performance Hobbies sell US Rockets kits the "regular" way?

Yes, Jerry lives in CA, but does he have to manufacture motors there? It makes it easier logistically for him to do that, but in theory he could manufacture them in any state, or even in another country.

- Rich

 

[billspad]

Since Jerry live in Kalifornification, would he have to show proof that he had a OSFM license to manufacturer . Does the NAR S&T require this documentation from CA manufacturers?

just wondering Bill


Terry Dean

Everything you need to know about NAR certification is contained in the documents on this page.

 

[llickteig1]

That's the best Irvine synopsis I've seen--amazing wrap-up, Adrian. And, as much as his polarizing and opinionated posts drove firestorms on the RP forums, I could not agree more with your last point. This community seems to thrive on conflict, at times, usually unnecessary. Honestly, Jerry's probably forgotten more about rocketry than I'll know. Not having him participate in rocketry at all is a loss--throwing the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.

Don't lay the ostracization of JI at the feet of "this community." JI has to wear it himself because he doesn't know when to shut up, he allegedly violates rules, and any number of other issues people have had with him over the years.

He has been given more than enough chances to play nice and it never takes him very long to peeve everyone off.

--Lance.

 

[Rocket86]

I really didn't want to wake any sleeping dogs. I was just curious about the motors, having only just found out about them. I inquired via their email link and didn't hear back, so I asked the question here. Sorry to have stirred up trouble.

 

[Frederocket]

I really didn't want to wake any sleeping dogs. I was just curious about the motors, having only just found out about them. I inquired via their email link and didn't hear back, so I asked the question here. Sorry to have stirred up trouble.

That's ok...:wink: Every every now and then, the air needs clearing on this subject... :shock:
__________________

 

[troj]

https://www.rocketryplanet.com/images/pdf/DOT-Irvine-appeal.pdf

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/portal/si...7d110VgnVCM1000009ed07898RCRD&vgnextfmt=print

For years, motors were shipped using the paperwork referenced in the above DOT procedings, with the insistance that it was legitimate to do so. DOT is in charge of such matters, and says otherwise, with a fine.

It's too bad the full procedings are not longer available on the DOT website -- it made for very entertaining reading.

-Kevin

 

[o1d_dude]

Does no one remember what happens if you say Beetlejuice three times?

I'm just saying.

 

[DAllen]

It's too bad the full procedings are not longer available on the DOT website -- it made for very entertaining reading.

Oh I donno...this is pretty entertaining:

In the appeal letter, Mr. Irvine acknowledges that he is the “manager” of Dynamic, “an active California LLC,” which has “under 2 employees” and less than $10,000 net income per year. Mr. Irvine asks to be “stricken” from this case on the ground that he “was acting as an agent or employee of Dynamic” and not “in his individual or personal capacity.” He also states that U.S. Rockets does not exist “now [and] has never existed.”

 

[georgegassaway]

In the appeal letter, Mr. Irvine acknowledges that he is the “manager” of Dynamic, “an active California LLC,” which has “under 2 employees” and less than $10,000 net income per year. Mr. Irvine asks to be “stricken” from this case on the ground that he “was acting as an agent or employee of Dynamic” and not “in his individual or personal capacity.” He also states that U.S. Rockets does not exist “now [and] has never existed.”

A typical example of "JerrySpeak".

He made lying into pretty much an art form. Trying to get away at times with gobbledy-jibberish wording like that, to try to explain his way out of various "things" he'd been caught in. Anytime anyone reads anything from him which sound.... awkwardly phrased....., consider a "B.S. alarm" to have been tripped.

If anyone does talk to him, ask him where the Rec.models.rockets T-shirts are.....

- George Gassaway

 

[plano-doug]

In the appeal letter, Mr. Irvine acknowledges that he is the “manager” of Dynamic, “an active California LLC,” which has “under 2 employees” and less than $10,000 net income per year. Mr. Irvine asks to be “stricken” from this case on the ground that he “was acting as an agent or employee of Dynamic” and not “in his individual or personal capacity.” He also states that U.S. Rockets does not exist “now [and] has never existed.”

A typical example of "JerrySpeak".
(snip)
Anytime anyone reads anything from him which sounds.... awkwardly phrased....., consider a "B.S. alarm" to have been tripped.

Kinda makes you want to take a shower, doesn't it?

Doug

.

 

[sylvie369]

Kinda makes you want to take a shower, doesn't it?

Some of us shower regardless, but yeah, this is rocketland, so it's not a given.

 

[JDcluster]

You can use Google to find old posts from RMR where JI was confronted about these charges.

I don't have the link but, did stumble across them looking for some other dated info.

If anyone wants or needs some US Rockets 2.25' tubing and full length couplers.
I have some, I bought from the Kosdon Estate sale. They were suppose to be casting tubes and liners for 2.5" motors.

JD

https://www.rocketryplanet.com/images/pdf/DOT-Irvine-appeal.pdf

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/portal/si...7d110VgnVCM1000009ed07898RCRD&vgnextfmt=print

For years, motors were shipped using the paperwork referenced in the above DOT procedings, with the insistance that it was legitimate to do so. DOT is in charge of such matters, and says otherwise, with a fine.

It's too bad the full procedings are not longer available on the DOT website -- it made for very entertaining reading.

-Kevin

 

[MarkII]

I have no experience with US Rockets, with the Tripoli Rocketry Association or with any of the history that has been mentioned. I did participate in threads on RP a few years ago into which several people, including but by no means limited to this person, dumped truckloads of bile and rancor. But here are a few more timely observations. The individual that is being discussed has been a member of YORF for at least a couple of years now. In that time, he has made numerous useful and insightful posts and has been an all-around positive contributor to discussions. He does not post very frequently there, but he does chime in from time to time. He seems to have a pretty deep knowledge of model rocketry history. I do not recall seeing any ranting or divisiveness in those posts. As others have mentioned, he has reactivated his rocket kit business and US Rockets kits are now available from several vendors as well as from the manufacturer himself. From what I can tell, he has made no mention of and he does not appear to be at all interested in selling hobby rocket motors to the public. He keeps the old USR rocket motor pages on his web site seemingly as a sort of a memento, maybe even as part of a résumé of sorts. My take on the motor pages is that since he pays the rent on the site, he can put up anything he wants on it.

 

[Peter Olivola]

Are you familiar with the story of the scorpion and frog?

I have no experience with US Rockets, with the Tripoli Rocketry Association or with any of the history that has been mentioned. I did participate in threads on RP a few years ago into which several people, including but by no means limited to this person, dumped truckloads of bile and rancor. But here are a few more timely observations. The individual that is being discussed has been a member of YORF for at least a couple of years now. In that time, he has made numerous useful and insightful posts and has been an all-around positive contributor to discussions. He does not post very frequently there, but he does chime in from time to time. He seems to have a pretty deep knowledge of model rocketry history. I do not recall seeing any ranting or divisiveness in those posts. As others have mentioned, he has reactivated his rocket kit business and US Rockets kits are now available from several vendors as well as from the manufacturer himself. From what I can tell, he has made no mention of and he does not appear to be at all interested in selling hobby rocket motors to the public. He keeps the old USR rocket motor pages on his web site seemingly as a sort of a memento, maybe even as part of a résumé of sorts. My take on the motor pages is that since he pays the rent on the site, he can put up anything he wants on it.