I got mine also. I will plan to build this weekend.
The Eggfinder - A Low-Cost GPS/RF Tracking System
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FWIW, being the deviant that I am, I used a slightly different technique for soldering on the Hope radio modules.
My challenge is that it's hard for me to see well enough to line up those small pads, then try to tape it down without it shifting around. Then, I noticed that I had a nice pile of leads I had snipped off, and they fit perfectly through the holes in the Hope modules and the holes in the circuit board.
Put the Hope module close to where it goes, stick a piece of lead through a hole, then through the hole in the circuit board. Voila! That corner is now lined up. Now, use one more lead and do the same in the opposite corner. Your Hope module is now lined up with minimal fuss. Then tape it down, to help prevent stray solder from getting onto the module -- taping just got a lot easier, as it's already lined up and can't move much.
-Kevin
My challenge is that it's hard for me to see well enough to line up those small pads, then try to tape it down without it shifting around. Then, I noticed that I had a nice pile of leads I had snipped off, and they fit perfectly through the holes in the Hope modules and the holes in the circuit board.
Put the Hope module close to where it goes, stick a piece of lead through a hole, then through the hole in the circuit board. Voila! That corner is now lined up. Now, use one more lead and do the same in the opposite corner. Your Hope module is now lined up with minimal fuss. Then tape it down, to help prevent stray solder from getting onto the module -- taping just got a lot easier, as it's already lined up and can't move much.
-Kevin
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That's actually why I put the holes in the pads. I thought I put that technique in the assembly docs but apparently I didn't, I'll update it.
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Got them today. Will have to wait for the weekend. Thanks for the soldering tip on the modules. Stick a lead in to line it up for taping. Solder a couple of the other unoccupied pads, pull the leads out and go for it the rest of the pads.
Anyone got some tips for the receive end besides MapSphere or otherwise inputting the data manually into a handheld GPS?
I'll say with MapSphere, one will get a nice trail but the lat/long cannot get to be displayed on the screen. The data can be saved to
a logfile and reviewed with a text editor. At least with my plug-in USB GPS receiver, I can read the lat/long and altitude. I believe it's in
meters. I'll have to work with it awhile longer to get the particulars.
I will also see if I can have two received GPS data streams entered into some of the standard APRS tracking programs. Things like UI-View, APRSIS32/CE Xastir, YAAC should be able to read the incoming data stream as if it's an attached GPS. I don't know if any of the programs can use two attached GPS data streams at the same time. I DO know that MapSphere will only attach to one GPS stream, even if two are attached. I already tried with two GPS units. Would be nice to be able to have a program to tell you where you are at in respect to the rocket.
But heck, getting a position point to even input manually to a handheld mapping GPS is a plus.
Kurt
Anyone got some tips for the receive end besides MapSphere or otherwise inputting the data manually into a handheld GPS?
I'll say with MapSphere, one will get a nice trail but the lat/long cannot get to be displayed on the screen. The data can be saved to
a logfile and reviewed with a text editor. At least with my plug-in USB GPS receiver, I can read the lat/long and altitude. I believe it's in
meters. I'll have to work with it awhile longer to get the particulars.
I will also see if I can have two received GPS data streams entered into some of the standard APRS tracking programs. Things like UI-View, APRSIS32/CE Xastir, YAAC should be able to read the incoming data stream as if it's an attached GPS. I don't know if any of the programs can use two attached GPS data streams at the same time. I DO know that MapSphere will only attach to one GPS stream, even if two are attached. I already tried with two GPS units. Would be nice to be able to have a program to tell you where you are at in respect to the rocket.
But heck, getting a position point to even input manually to a handheld mapping GPS is a plus.
Kurt
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robbdm
Rocketry Tourist
Ordered the TX and RX this weekend, received Monday. Put together TX on Monday and RX Tuesday. Seems to work, using visualgps ot display data and MotionX on my Iphone. I noticed amber light not on but functioning. I ordered antennas for the RX and TX.
Impressive instructions and website help... what's the next product coming?
Impressive instructions and website help... what's the next product coming?
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*** IMPORTANT ***
Apparently the 330 ohm resistors in the TX kit were actually 330 K. It doesn't affect the actual operation of the unit, only the function of the 1S status LED. I'm sending replacements to everyone who has purchased a kit. If you haven't put it together yet, you can either leave the resistor out for now and solder in the replacement when you get it, or wait until you get it to start building. If you HAVE put it together, my apologies. Fortunately, it's an easy part to replace; you can clip the leads, heat up the pad on the bottom, and it falls right out.
Cris
Apparently the 330 ohm resistors in the TX kit were actually 330 K. It doesn't affect the actual operation of the unit, only the function of the 1S status LED. I'm sending replacements to everyone who has purchased a kit. If you haven't put it together yet, you can either leave the resistor out for now and solder in the replacement when you get it, or wait until you get it to start building. If you HAVE put it together, my apologies. Fortunately, it's an easy part to replace; you can clip the leads, heat up the pad on the bottom, and it falls right out.
Cris
Eew, K, No big deal then. EVERYBODY WAIT ON THE 330 OHM RESISTORS. Save 'em for last if ya started the build
Sooooo, the last stripe was yellow instead of brown? ;-) Kurt
Sooooo, the last stripe was yellow instead of brown? ;-) Kurt
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I thought a color was off. Now I know it wasn't me.
That said, not the end of the world -- my Egg Finder is working properly. It's a bit manual for now, but I'll deal with that later - capturing the strings, and plugging them into a decoder lands me in the right spot, so I'd say that's a good sign!
Definitely not the easiest kit to assemble, but Cris is up front about that on his website. I've done worse, though (tiny SMD is way worse). My biggest challenge is old eyes.
-Kevin
That said, not the end of the world -- my Egg Finder is working properly. It's a bit manual for now, but I'll deal with that later - capturing the strings, and plugging them into a decoder lands me in the right spot, so I'd say that's a good sign!
Definitely not the easiest kit to assemble, but Cris is up front about that on his website. I've done worse, though (tiny SMD is way worse). My biggest challenge is old eyes.
-Kevin
Got my kit today, thanks for the heads up Cris. I will start with the GPS module tomorrow and stop when I get to the 330 ohm resistors. I have some 330 ohm resistors, but they are 1/4 watt, twice the size of the tiny ones in this kit. I'm reading through the operators manual now, and found a problem I hadn't considered. I'm planning on putting mine in the N/C of my 3" Darkstar, which has a 1/4" all thread rod right up the middle of it. Can't get 2" of separation inside the N/C, so I will need to add the RP-SMA connector and move it away from the all thread. So I'm looking for suggestions on where to locate and what to use for the TX antenna. Even a 1/2 wave antenna is only about 6" long, so I might run a coaxial cable out the bulkhead and thread the antenna into the shock cord. Still have hardware (eyebolt and quick-link) on the bottom of the bulkhead, but if I run it down the shock cord a ways...?
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Is the body tube long enough and wide enough to simply tie a 6" piece of BT55 to the shock cord? You can easily mount the Eggfinder on a small piece of basswood, with a 300 mAH LiPo. Cap off the ends with a balsa plug (one glued, the other taped or screwed in). That's what Juan did, it worked great except for the choice of tape... duct tape should work well.
Got one of the transmitters built but made a little mistake. I presumed the RPSMA connectors are like the connectors on most of the American
H/T's out there. That is the connector on the radio has a female center and not a male center like the ones Cris offers. I will have to find some edge connectors that are comparable to the Beeline Trackers with a female center. My mistake Cris so I'll eat it. Waiting for the 330ohm resistors to come. All my internal connector cables and antennas have an SMA male connection so I want to be compatible. My connector for the patch antenna that came today has an SMA male connector.
Okee dokey, found some female SMA connectors. Me bad for not reading more carefully. RP=reverse polarity. Kurt
H/T's out there. That is the connector on the radio has a female center and not a male center like the ones Cris offers. I will have to find some edge connectors that are comparable to the Beeline Trackers with a female center. My mistake Cris so I'll eat it. Waiting for the 330ohm resistors to come. All my internal connector cables and antennas have an SMA male connection so I want to be compatible. My connector for the patch antenna that came today has an SMA male connector.
Okee dokey, found some female SMA connectors. Me bad for not reading more carefully. RP=reverse polarity. Kurt
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The RP-SMA connectors are required by the FCC, in lieu of a non-removable antenna. Be careful when you buy connectors and antennae from eBay, some of the discount sellers will say that it's RP-SMA when it's really not. An RP-SMA FEMALE connector (that mounts on the board) has outside threads and a center pin; an RP-SMA MALE connector (like an antenna or pigtail) has inside threads and a center socket. Think of an RG59 coax like cable TV; those are "normal" polarity, the female connector (like on your converter) has outside threads and a center socket, and the mating male connector (on the cable) has inside threads and a center pin. It's all very confusing...
BTW, I have sent out the replacement resistors to everyone that purchased an Eggfinder.
BTW, I have sent out the replacement resistors to everyone that purchased an Eggfinder.
Basically,
I wanted to get a socket to match connectors I already have. Basically, like the socket on the Beeline trackers and beacons. Also the same as the female SMA socket on all of the American handi-talkies out there. No big deal and it was my fault for not looking at the connectors more carefully. I'm going to use the
included wire antenna for testing and then replace it as needed. Any problem with using a 1/4watt 330 ohm resistor for testing? Would it harm anything?
Kurt
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I think you'll be amazed at the range of the wire antenna, I know that when I was testing I expected about 5000' out of it and I've gotten nearly 10,000' without significant drop-outs. I mailed out the resistors, but if you can't wait you can try a 1/4W; it might not fit, however. Radio Shack sells the 1/8W 330 ohm resistors, that's what I ended up buying to replace the bad ones because I didn't want to wait for Digikey or Mouser. They get $1.49 for five of them... 30 cents per resistor is a lot more than the 1 cent that they cost when you buy 1,000 of them.
A 1/4 watt will fit. I like the connector so I have the option to use a bulkhead antenna and have just the tracker buried internally. Some of the stubby duck
antennas are tough. The wire is fine for nosecone installation. I just have a bunch of different connectors lying around.
Kurt
Eureka!
It's alive!!! Used the 1/4watt 330 ohm resistor, soldered on the 80mm wire antenna for a test and holee molee, after about 5 minutes, with the green and red led on and the red flashing LED on the the transmitter unit, the yellow LED comes on 1S indicating data!
I don't have the receiver built yet but the spectrum on Gqrx with a dongle shows a nice peak coming in on 915Mhz. Yahoo!
Oh, a 1/4 watt 330 ohm resistor does fit fine. It's just 2-3mm higher than the GPS module. The module was a challenge and I wished I had
a little bit smaller soldering tip but I got 'er done. Now to do the receiver and the second transmitter. How long you think a 1200mah
battery going to run it? Reason I ask is one will need to connect the battery and power is being drawn in the standby mode. The switch will be pushed to activate the transmit/gps module and everything will have to be sealed up into the rocket. Only improvement I could think of is trying to come up with a connection system so one could use the HOPE software to change the transmitting and receive frequencies on the modules.
If the E.F.s take off, several folks could show up at a launch with the same transmitting frequency and that would mean only one could be on at once. Kurt
It's alive!!! Used the 1/4watt 330 ohm resistor, soldered on the 80mm wire antenna for a test and holee molee, after about 5 minutes, with the green and red led on and the red flashing LED on the the transmitter unit, the yellow LED comes on 1S indicating data!
I don't have the receiver built yet but the spectrum on Gqrx with a dongle shows a nice peak coming in on 915Mhz. Yahoo!
Oh, a 1/4 watt 330 ohm resistor does fit fine. It's just 2-3mm higher than the GPS module. The module was a challenge and I wished I had
a little bit smaller soldering tip but I got 'er done. Now to do the receiver and the second transmitter. How long you think a 1200mah
battery going to run it? Reason I ask is one will need to connect the battery and power is being drawn in the standby mode. The switch will be pushed to activate the transmit/gps module and everything will have to be sealed up into the rocket. Only improvement I could think of is trying to come up with a connection system so one could use the HOPE software to change the transmitting and receive frequencies on the modules.
If the E.F.s take off, several folks could show up at a launch with the same transmitting frequency and that would mean only one could be on at once. Kurt
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Glad it's working! A 1200 mAH battery should run it all day, the Eggfinder TX draws about 70-100 mA. Standby, under 20 mA.
FYI, if somebody else is on your frequency, you'll know right away when you power up the transmitter before you press the button... the green LED on the Hope RF module will start blinking since it's receiving the signal from the other transmitter. The module IS a transceiver, but the transmitter's receive data line is open and the receiver's transmit line is grounded so it cannot transmit.
FYI, if somebody else is on your frequency, you'll know right away when you power up the transmitter before you press the button... the green LED on the Hope RF module will start blinking since it's receiving the signal from the other transmitter. The module IS a transceiver, but the transmitter's receive data line is open and the receiver's transmit line is grounded so it cannot transmit.
OK, I admit it, I'm not the most patient guy..... I mounted the GPS module yesterday and started working on the rest of the components this morning. I thought the 30 second wait between soldering joints was a pain, sitting there watching the second hand tick. Stopped when I got to the 330 ohm resistor, then decided I could do the other resistors and wait for the mail to see if my new 330 ohm resistor would show up. But after I got the other resistors mounted, I went ahead and finished mounting everything else. I also had a 1/4 watt 330 ohm resistor and couldn't wait any longer. So it's done and I'm hooking up power to see if I got this one right. Waiting for the 1S led was worse than the soldering wait, but after about 3 minutes, it lights up!
Now, on to the receiver!
Now, on to the receiver!
Hey, got a receiver done and started testing with MapSphere. I've used Xastir, YAAC, UIView and APRSIS32.
Xastir will treat an incoming GPS stream as a location of a "base" radio station and will allow one to track the
"base" station like it was any other APRS station. Attached are some screensaves of the EggFinder data streaming
into the program. I have the EF stationary and then take it outside for a walk. It will display position, altitude and horizontal speed plus one can pull up a logfile window and look at the raw datapoints. The units can be adjusted in Xastir to whatever lat/long you want. I believe the track can be saved for later callup. I'm going to check this out.
Nonetheless, the information presented is more rich than MapSphere though Xastir can't easily use aerial photos.
As opposed to the pretty picture MapSphere does.
Kurt
Xastir will treat an incoming GPS stream as a location of a "base" radio station and will allow one to track the
"base" station like it was any other APRS station. Attached are some screensaves of the EggFinder data streaming
into the program. I have the EF stationary and then take it outside for a walk. It will display position, altitude and horizontal speed plus one can pull up a logfile window and look at the raw datapoints. The units can be adjusted in Xastir to whatever lat/long you want. I believe the track can be saved for later callup. I'm going to check this out.
Nonetheless, the information presented is more rich than MapSphere though Xastir can't easily use aerial photos.
As opposed to the pretty picture MapSphere does.
Kurt
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I'll look at Xastir for sure. Most of the sites that we fly HPR out West don't map very well anyway... the direction and distance is more important than landmarks.
I'm still trying to figure out if I can save the GPS track. One can log the APRS info coming in over the terminal node controller but I'm trying to see if it's possible to store the GPS track of the "base station". In the "Station Info" you see there is a store track button. I've asked on the Xastir list-serv about this but I'll go out today and see if I can store the track and then call it back up for display. I'm hoping if I save the track, that a display track button will appear. Kurt
Which RP-SMA connector did you use? Anyone have a link to an antenna?
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The RP-SMA connector that mates with the Eggfinder board is Linx Technologies p/n CONVREVSMA003.062, but there are lots of other manufacturers that make the same connector. The trick is that there is a PIN in the center of the connector, not a SOCKET (that's what makes it "reverse"). A good RP-SMA 5 dB rubber duckie antenna can be found found at https://www.ebay.com/itm/5DBi-Wirel...s_Antennas&hash=item41767fe65e#ht_2390wt_1339 (sorry for the long URL...). They work fine, although I have not had the opportunity to determine how much better they are than the wire whip antenna that I ship with the Eggfinder.
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robbdm
Rocketry Tourist
Amber light now on and blinking... purchased from ebay antennas Chris suggested... waiting for LUNAR's April launch to give it a try the nose code of my Wildman Shape Shifter.
Still working with Xastir here. Plugging the E.F. receiver into Xastir allows one to see the track, and a kml file can be saved to the /tracklogs directory. One can pull that up later on GoogleEarth to look at. I can link the /tracklogs directory to the /maps directory and get the track painted in Xastir for later perusal. It is not as easy as loading a net.log or aprs.log. There is a perl script called gps2aprs that is supposed to look at
the GPS data coming in and treat is as an APRS datapoint. I'm having trouble with it.
Nonetheless, By attaching the EF receiver to Xastir as a GPS I believe, I can attach a terminal node controller to another port with another radio and have Xastir transmit the position via APRS to say the 70cm band and use my Kenwood D72A and Garmin 60Cs for portable tacking.
I'll have to test that out once the weather breaks.
Kurt
the GPS data coming in and treat is as an APRS datapoint. I'm having trouble with it.
Nonetheless, By attaching the EF receiver to Xastir as a GPS I believe, I can attach a terminal node controller to another port with another radio and have Xastir transmit the position via APRS to say the 70cm band and use my Kenwood D72A and Garmin 60Cs for portable tacking.
I'll have to test that out once the weather breaks.
Kurt
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Ok,
Looks like anyone who is also at least a Technician Ham Radio Operator could do cross band repeating with
Xastir. Yeah, it's a bear of a program to learn but there are two options with Xastir.
Xastir can still be used by those not licensed in the ham band as outlined.
Use the gps2aprs.pl script to receive the EggFinder data points from the receiver as if it were an APRS station.
One simply starts Xastir, Go to the "Interface" pull down at the top, click on it and go down and click on
"Enable Server Ports". Let it run for 15 seconds or so and then go to another terminal and fire up the
gps2aprs.pl script. The GPS data will be streaming in that window and one can minimize it. The station will now
appear on Xastir. One can still attach a USB GPS receiver on another port for tracking purposes. One can go to "Files" and select "the "Net Logging" button to record a flight session. The net.log file can be called up and displayed at another session.
The gps2aprs.pl Perl script is here:
https://www.ece.uah.edu/~jdw/rockets/gps2aprs.txt
Change .txt to pl and change the data to your particular circumstances with a text editor. You have to select the proper /dev/ttyUSBX port. You don't have to be a ham radio operator to use Xastir in this fashion. You'll
simply be using Xastir to display your datapoints and be able to call up a logfile when you want to.
Callsign could be "GPS-1" in that case for instance.
The other option is to use Xastir to read the incoming data as if it were a serial GPS meant to display the
"base station" position. It's easy to do using the standard GPS setup. Under interface control, one setups up a serial GPS which in the case of the E.F. is 9600 baud. Put the port the EF receiver is on and one is good to go.
If one uses this method and stops here, they still don't have to be a licensed ham radio operator.
One can't get a nice log like the method above but a .kml file can be recorded and viewed on Google Maps
Now here comes the good part. If one is a Ham and has a terminal node controller like a TNC-X unit. https://tnc-x.com/, one can set that up in another port. Here is the kicker. One can setup Xastir to "transmit" its position say every 6 seconds to a radio connected to the TNC-X. One can select a 70cm or 2m frequency to cross-band repeat the incoming data of the EggFinder. I wouldn't use the national 144.390 frequency so's not to PO other operators.
If one is going to be transmitting in the ham band, you'll have to be licensed.
The utility of this is one could have their laptop with the EF receiver and TNC-X locked in their vehicle with a mag mount antenna to receive the 900mhz signal and another antenna for 70cm or 2m with another radio to transmit on the chosen frequency. Now since I and others out there have used and still will use our BeelineGPS units along with our Kenwood D7's, D72's Yaesu VX-8GR's and FT1DR's that are interfaced with handheld Garmin mapping GPS units, we could conceivably have the TNC-X crossband repeat some of the GPS data incoming from the
900Mhz E.F. to the 70cm or 2m band in APRS mode so we can walk close to the rocket with a map in hand.
Now there are limitations to this. If the rocket lands very far away and the last 900Mhz position packet is quite
a distance away from where the rocket finally landed it might be better to have a system in the hand like a tablet or phone that can run with the EF receiver and a mapping app that you can read in the sunlight. Once you get to the last known packet, you stand a chance to pick up a new packet and take you to the rocket if you're not within eyeshot.
If one's rockets are generally going 1 to 2 or maybe 3 miles away, a cross band repeating setup like I outline above
would be doable for those already APRS tracking and would be able to use their Ham radio stuff they are already
using for the Beeline GPS or any other APRS tracker. They could do it by simply getting a TNC-X or if they
already have a mobile rig like a D700, D710 or others that can directly be connected to a GPS unit a' la EggFinder.
Kurt KC9LDH
Looks like anyone who is also at least a Technician Ham Radio Operator could do cross band repeating with
Xastir. Yeah, it's a bear of a program to learn but there are two options with Xastir.
Xastir can still be used by those not licensed in the ham band as outlined.
Use the gps2aprs.pl script to receive the EggFinder data points from the receiver as if it were an APRS station.
One simply starts Xastir, Go to the "Interface" pull down at the top, click on it and go down and click on
"Enable Server Ports". Let it run for 15 seconds or so and then go to another terminal and fire up the
gps2aprs.pl script. The GPS data will be streaming in that window and one can minimize it. The station will now
appear on Xastir. One can still attach a USB GPS receiver on another port for tracking purposes. One can go to "Files" and select "the "Net Logging" button to record a flight session. The net.log file can be called up and displayed at another session.
The gps2aprs.pl Perl script is here:
https://www.ece.uah.edu/~jdw/rockets/gps2aprs.txt
Change .txt to pl and change the data to your particular circumstances with a text editor. You have to select the proper /dev/ttyUSBX port. You don't have to be a ham radio operator to use Xastir in this fashion. You'll
simply be using Xastir to display your datapoints and be able to call up a logfile when you want to.
Callsign could be "GPS-1" in that case for instance.
The other option is to use Xastir to read the incoming data as if it were a serial GPS meant to display the
"base station" position. It's easy to do using the standard GPS setup. Under interface control, one setups up a serial GPS which in the case of the E.F. is 9600 baud. Put the port the EF receiver is on and one is good to go.
If one uses this method and stops here, they still don't have to be a licensed ham radio operator.
One can't get a nice log like the method above but a .kml file can be recorded and viewed on Google Maps
Now here comes the good part. If one is a Ham and has a terminal node controller like a TNC-X unit. https://tnc-x.com/, one can set that up in another port. Here is the kicker. One can setup Xastir to "transmit" its position say every 6 seconds to a radio connected to the TNC-X. One can select a 70cm or 2m frequency to cross-band repeat the incoming data of the EggFinder. I wouldn't use the national 144.390 frequency so's not to PO other operators.
If one is going to be transmitting in the ham band, you'll have to be licensed.
The utility of this is one could have their laptop with the EF receiver and TNC-X locked in their vehicle with a mag mount antenna to receive the 900mhz signal and another antenna for 70cm or 2m with another radio to transmit on the chosen frequency. Now since I and others out there have used and still will use our BeelineGPS units along with our Kenwood D7's, D72's Yaesu VX-8GR's and FT1DR's that are interfaced with handheld Garmin mapping GPS units, we could conceivably have the TNC-X crossband repeat some of the GPS data incoming from the
900Mhz E.F. to the 70cm or 2m band in APRS mode so we can walk close to the rocket with a map in hand.
Now there are limitations to this. If the rocket lands very far away and the last 900Mhz position packet is quite
a distance away from where the rocket finally landed it might be better to have a system in the hand like a tablet or phone that can run with the EF receiver and a mapping app that you can read in the sunlight. Once you get to the last known packet, you stand a chance to pick up a new packet and take you to the rocket if you're not within eyeshot.
If one's rockets are generally going 1 to 2 or maybe 3 miles away, a cross band repeating setup like I outline above
would be doable for those already APRS tracking and would be able to use their Ham radio stuff they are already
using for the Beeline GPS or any other APRS tracker. They could do it by simply getting a TNC-X or if they
already have a mobile rig like a D700, D710 or others that can directly be connected to a GPS unit a' la EggFinder.
Kurt KC9LDH
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Took my Eggfinder for a walk, no breakthrough tech. involved. RX connected to my laptop with Mapsphere, TX down the street and back. It worked. Mapsphere showed the track when I got back home. Where do I find the GPS coordinates to input into Motion X?
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