Sneak Peak: Jolly Logic's Easy Dual Deployment

[John Beans]

I agree that having the numerical binding data might not be useful to many, but perhaps you might consider adding a photo (or two - one for each band size) to your website that gives users a visual sense of how far the bands can be stretched before reaching the binding point? Something that shows the end diameter of an object with the band stretched around it that closely approaches a binding point.

I know that would help me know what to avoid...

I will add some photos soon, and I'm hoping others will share photos for inspiration.

You can combine multiple bands to reach unlimited lengths, BUT it still has to be secure, right?

Mostly I'd like to discover and reinforce guiding principles, such as:

1. Use elastic bands that automatically limit tension to proper levels
2. Always ground test (shake, release, puff)
3. Start high, learn, then release lower with experience

Sometime soon I'll take a crazy long band (about 1 foot long) and wrap it multi-directionally around a Nomex bundled chute. I know there are high power flyers who would be reassured by the sight of such a secure mummy bundle. Maybe even an inside Nomex shaped like a + inside the band to prevent snags, then a loose outside Nomex to protect the band.

 

[JoeG]

I wrote my review but it was in the wrong thread so here we go again. Sorry for the repetition.

Bought mine at a launch on Saturday. Perused the "manual" while the unit it was charging which took about an hour in my case. There is not much to learn before using it. Turn it on, set altitude, wrap parachute and launch. I only got one launch because of the wind but it allowed me to fly a single deploy rocket I never would have because of the altitude to wind ratio. My rocket was drug through a plowed field and mud was caked on the release mechanism. I wiped it off and then used a damp cloth to clean it and it is as good as new. I can see using this a lot. I used it on a Loc Precision 58" parachute and it worked fine. I think you could use it on just about any size chute you can wrap up with it. Great product.

 

[Bat-mite]

I used mine on Saturday. I am please to say that the unit performed perfectly! I, however, was a fool, and made a mistake. I had prepped my rocket for launch without Chute Release. When I decided to use Chute Release, I should have modified the way I had the shock cord folded and the location of my chute protector. I ended up with a tangle, and although the unit released at 300 feet, the chute didn't fully deploy until about 50'.

As I said, this was my own fault, and JLCR performed perfectly. I will be smarter next time.

 

[ksaves2]

I will add some photos soon, and I'm hoping others will share photos for inspiration.

You can combine multiple bands to reach unlimited lengths, BUT it still has to be secure, right?

Mostly I'd like to discover and reinforce guiding principles, such as:

1. Use elastic bands that automatically limit tension to proper levels
2. Always ground test (shake, release, puff)
3. Start high, learn, then release lower with experience

Sometime soon I'll take a crazy long band (about 1 foot long) and wrap it multi-directionally around a Nomex bundled chute. I know there are high power flyers who would be reassured by the sight of such a secure mummy bundle. Maybe even an inside Nomex shaped like a + inside the band to prevent snags, then a loose outside Nomex to protect the band.

I would think there is a limit to the tension one could apply through the retaining band. Happily there is a ground test feature to avoid a situation where the release mechanism would fail due to undue tension applied to it. Ground test and
99.9% flights should be nominal. The other .1% could occur to anyone with tangles or what have you that can after the device releases. Kurt

 

[Rob702Martinez]

Used mine 4 times saturday on 2 different rockets.....flawless! Absolutely worth every penny. Funny I didn't tell the club I was using it and you could hear a few people yelling "no chute! No chute! Heads up!"

And at 300 ft....poof. opened and floated down....one guy goes how the hell did he do that...and the group came over to my table and we did a little demo and Q&A...awesome!

 

[wighty44]

... Funny I didn't tell the club I was using it and you could hear a few people yelling "no chute! No chute! Heads up!"...

Personally I would not have been amused by that kind of "surprise", nor should the RSO or LCO. I made sure our members make a special notation on our flight cards whenever CR is used, which includes identifying the altitude set point.

IMO, it's not funny to pretend rocket is coming in ballistic - just sayin'... :no:

 

[Rob702Martinez]

Ok you win. I told the LCO about it...the other guys hanging out didn't know so yes to your point serious enough but also I'm not a complete idiot. There were no flight cards either just a few questions and besides everyone had their eyes in the sky on every launch.

Thanks for your concern.

 

[John Beans]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is delighted by being able to control chute deployment. I invented this because of all the times I wanted to fly a big motor (love it!) but wasn't sure I'd be able to find my rocket afterward.

 

[wighty44]

Chute Release is a game changing product! Thank you for its development....

 

[o1d_dude]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is delighted by being able to control chute deployment. I invented this because of all the times I wanted to fly a big motor (love it!) but wasn't sure I'd be able to find my rocket afterward.

My geezerly legs thank you for the Chute Release, JB.

 

[georgegassaway]

I made a couple of flights Saturday in a Big Bertha on C6 power. Set for 100 feet both times.

Worked perfectly!

Two things i'm keeping in mind for future flying. One, is for ultra-high flights, I'd want to add a mylar streamer or something to help make it more visible as it descends.

The other, perhaps use a small "drogue" chute. So just in case the main chute did not deploy, for whatever reason, the rocket would not hit the ground as fast, but still descend quickly enough to help make it land close.

I shot video of the second flight. Set the focus on manual at infinity. Got some pretty good footage. The way it stabilizes nose-down and picks up even more speed before deployment is what has me thinking about a small chute just in case.

The chute I used was 18". Of course I would never sport fly a Big Bertha on a C6 with an 18" chute... unless it was a calm thermal-less day (this flight was in 10 mph wind). With the Chute Release, deploying at 100 feet, why not use a bigger chute as long as it can fit inside the rocket, with chute release, and work reliably.

[video=youtube;Tc04GNKv6ng]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc04GNKv6ng[/video]

 

[tab28682]

Personally I would not have been amused by that kind of "surprise", nor should the RSO or LCO. I made sure our members make a special notation on our flight cards whenever CR is used, which includes identifying the altitude set point.

IMO, it's not funny to pretend rocket is coming in ballistic - just sayin'... :no:

Worth noting that the model is not coming in ballistic. The parts of the model have separated and tumbling and are not coming in like a spear.

Even when I announced (had the LCO announce) that my model had a delayed main chute opening after motor ejection via my RC Chute Sled, a couple of people got excited as it tumbled down with "nothing" deployed and felt the need to inform me about it......as if I was not watching the same thing....

It was fun to tell them not to worry and then say "watch this...main chute in three, two, one!" and hit the switch on the TX. Chute opens. Their reaction was "oh".

Over time, people will get used to this. For launches where the model will stay in sight, I prefer not to mess with a streamer.

 

[John Beans]

I made a couple of flights Saturday in a Big Bertha on C6 power. Set for 100 feet both times.

Worked perfectly!

Nice flight! It looks like it was pretty windy, too.

 

[ksaves2]

My flying the JLCR was nixed due to high expected winds on Saturday and the club launch was cancelled. I did a "ground tolerance test" with the large ASP WAC Corporal: https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecomme...ge-29-38-mm-Version-.cfm?item_id=631&parent=8 This rocket begs to be modifed with an electronics bay because the nosecone sits on top of a coupler/bulkhead arrangement. I just reinforced the coupler and use four small wood screws to hold the nosecone to the coupler. Inside the coupler rests a Galejs Magnetic Anomaly Detection deployment unit: https://www.aeroconsystems.com/electronics/mad.htm It might be out of production. The Zeptomag would be a substitute but costs as much as a
deployment altimeter now: https://www.zeptobit.com/zeptomag/ I use a bulkhead mounted locking toggle switch (something like this: https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G20892) to turn the unit on while upright on the pad. I have a hole in the coupler to see the continuity LED. I then lower the nosecone down and launch. The rockets have flown (I have two of the WACs, one yellow one white) for over 5 years with H123's and my own 2 grain 38mm research motor, which BTW puts it more outta' sight than the H123.

My "tolerance test" was a contained ematch attached to the MAD unit in the upright rocket with the MAD unit turned on and an activated JLCR restraining the chute. Nothing happened over 45 minutes so I believe I'm good to go.

Why the test? I've had Rf from a tracker cause a pad deployment and a deployment on ascent. Also witnessed a very large "O" powered project go completely ballistic with two "dorked by Rf" deployment altimeters.
Yeah, I know the Chute Release has nothing to do with Rf and it rides safely below the MAD unit but I'm intractably paranoid with electronics after being burned. If it has current running in it, I test to make sure it plays well
with other devices/toys.

I'm looking forward to using larger chutes with the WAC's and having a shorter walk. Dual "deploy like" without having to dink with motor delays (because of the MAD devices) and only one ematch. Incidentally, with the MAD unit deploying just at apogee, none of my WAC's have a hint of zippering or "dings" on the body tube lip. True, I strive to avoid angling into the wind and point the rocket a few degrees downwind so the rocket has minimal velocity when it flops over at apogee.
Oh, I wouldn't trust an Rf tracker with a MAD unit so these rockets will fly without Rf tracking unless I switched out the MAD for something else.

Kurt

 

[Pat_B]

I flew mine today and it worked perfect. Our kids were doing TARC flights and I quickly threw together a mid-power rocket to use as a test. I didn't spend a lot of time with wrapping the parachute neatly or shock cord management, yet the deployment was flawless.

It's neat how this can do double duty as a dual deployment device, or simply used with a single parachute that gets deployed at low altitude. It's doing to take some time rethinking about what motors I can use at the various fields we fly at.

 

[Maxter]

I was at Bayboro this weekend. I saw to many flights to count ,using the chute release. The only failure was when the flyer forgot to turn it on! One of the flights was with a very large rocket. I am not sure but, I think it was on a K motor. Very impressive!

 

[BEC]

Yup - not turning it on is a sure way to make it fail As you will see farther back in this thread, I discovered this as well....

 

[McKailas Dad]

Man, John, I wonder how many of these have been sold, just by word of mouth! Whether by excellent reviews here on the forum, or by witnessing them at launches.. Free advertising is awesome!

Hopefully, like my AltimeterOne, the price may eventually come down just a little. It is not in my budget right now, but when it is, I'll certainly buy one of yours, verses...wait, you're the -only- one that makes them

 

[Oberon]

I'm thinking of adding an apogee-deployed streamer to my chute release setup, mostly for visibility - but I'm not sure how to rig it. I want to avoid fouling the chute with the streamer during/after opening. Anybody tried this already and have some tips?

 

[EXPjawa]

I'm thinking of adding an apogee-deployed streamer to my chute release setup, mostly for visibility - but I'm not sure how to rig it. I want to avoid fouling the chute with the streamer during/after opening. Anybody tried this already and have some tips?

I'm curious about this too.

 

[Bat-mite]

How about putting the streamer at least one parachute diameter farther aft on the harness?

 

[SCrocketfan]

I have flown a few flights with a drogue now, and typically position the drogue at the NC and the main closer to the booster. Not sure how it would work with a streamer, but the drogue works very well.

 

[ksaves2]

How about putting the streamer at least one parachute diameter farther aft on the harness?

View attachment 283755

Exactly what I was thinking. If one wants a slower apogee descent, do a drogue chute like SCrocketfan.

 

[ksaves2]

Another option is the drogue-attached-to-the-apex-of-the-main chute described here:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...using-Drogue-to-Pull-Out-Main-for-LOC-3-90-V2

Unfortunately the pictures have been pulled but I will try to post some shots of my arrangement I used for the Archetype (now Prairietwister) cable cutter successfully. It might be applicable to the chute release with a drogue.

The ziptie can hold things together more tightly but perhaps the rubber band would be adequate enough. My only use of the setup was a totally sight unseen flight but the rocket was perfectly fine with the main deployed when I walked up to it.

Kurt

 

[John Beans]

I wouldn't attach a drogue to the peak of the main. The drogue will pull your main away from Chute Release. I like SCRocketfans method. Proven, and it will help pull a tight bundle out of the tube if needed.

 

[ksaves2]

I wouldn't attach a drogue to the peak of the main. The drogue will pull your main away from Chute Release. I like SCRocketfans method. Proven, and it will help pull a tight bundle out of the tube if needed.

Yeah,

Perhaps the rubber retainer might not be robust enough compared to a zip tie. Some pictures:



The hard foam spacer at the apex is what the ziptie abuts against and works well.

I think it aligns the descending package in a better position for a tangle free deployment of the
main when the cutter fires. Others besides me have had success though I wasn't able to witness
directly the only flight I've had so far due to height and distance.

That was my concern the rubber restraint might not take the load of a drogue. Then again, with that
foam spacer, it might be possible.

Nosecone drogue is easy enough. Kurt

 

[Pat_B]

We've been testing some truncated cone parachutes and have had excellent success with them in 'slowing down' the descent of a rocket coming down using the Chute Release. And there's almost no drift at all. These types of parachutes pack really tight and are much less burdensome than a typical drogue parachute that's likely overbuilt for this use, and are likely to drift. They also only use 4 shroud lines, so they're less likely to tangle.

We're still testing the sizing of these to determine the proper size versus rocket weight. But meanwhile, if anyone is interested in these then please let me know. We'll likely only follow through with a full product line if there's enough interest.

 

[John Beans]

Very cool. What sizes are you thinking about?

This would also help "get the laundry out" in tight fuselages.

 

[nute]

Yeah,

Perhaps the rubber retainer might not be robust enough compared to a zip tie. Some pictures:

View attachment 283820View attachment 283821

The hard foam spacer at the apex is what the ziptie abuts against and works well.

I think it aligns the descending package in a better position for a tangle free deployment of the
main when the cutter fires. Others besides me have had success though I wasn't able to witness
directly the only flight I've had so far due to height and distance.

That was my concern the rubber restraint might not take the load of a drogue. Then again, with that
foam spacer, it might be possible.

Nosecone drogue is easy enough. Kurt

I'm very interested in this setup. How is the drogue/pilot attached to the main?

Nate

 

[Pat_B]

Hi John. Looks like the smallest size would be about 15" tall. They don't provide a lot of drag, so larger sizes tend to be necessary. A 15" sized one performs at about 50fps with a 1lb rocket. We're testing larger sizes to see what's necessary, but the biggest thing about these is how tightly they pack.