sanding sealers.. all the same?

[Ron Soto]

just curious what ya'all use for sanding sealer? i really didn't want to buy a gallon.. but would if i have to. i did find 'DELUXE Materials Sand 'n Seal' on Amazon. 8oz. (i'd hate to buy a gallon, and have it go to waste. Amazon.com For my zephyr i did not use sanding sealer.. this said, on my future builds, i'll definitely use it.

Are they all the same... OR is there a preferred manufacture?

thanks in advance,
r-

 

[David Schwantz]

To seal what material? Balsa, basswood, ply, cardboard?

 

[Marc_G]

Been a while, but I've like the Brodak product. I may amend it with talc powder to make it thicker. Sometimes I just flood fins with thin CA., then sand.

 

[SolarYellow]

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/paint-and-supplies/stains-and-finishes/lacquer/11268

 

[Wrightme43]

Dewaxed shellac is the universal base coat/sanding sealer. Everything sticks to it.
The best filler in the world is called Timbermate. You can get it from amazon, woodcraft, or rockler.
Thin timbermate with tap water, paint on, enjoy the easiest sanding you have ever experienced.
Primer or dewaxed shellac locks it in since it is water soluble until sealed.
Alcohol will remove or thin shellac.

 

[Ron Soto]

To seal what material? Balsa, basswood, ply, cardboard?

balsa, ply, and cardboard

r-

 

[cls]

+1 for regular shellac. -1 because can't get the right thinner to clean the brushes in California. +1 for disposable acid brushes at $0.10 each.

My dad thought his lacquer plus talc recipe from 1944 was just fine. But that gets -2 points, for requiring multiple applications to get enough talc, and lotsa sanding between coats. +1 for the smell and keeping him off the street. He had stuff that worked for him and balsa tissue airplanes, but just don't work on rockets.

 

[Hobie1dog]

The best filler in the world is called Timbermate. You can get it from amazon, woodcraft, or rockler.
Thin timbermate with tap water, paint on, enjoy the easiest sanding you have ever experienced.

+1 What he said

 

[bjphoenix]

I've used standard Elmers wood filler on balsa fins and it worked well. I thinned it to the consistency of milkshake and paint it on. It is easy to sand. These days I paper my fins so I don't normally worry about balsa grain but do still put wood filler on the edges and other defects. For anything smaller than balsa grain I think you could use a high build primer.
In the old days you were supposed to buy sanding sealer or balsa filler made from butyrate dope. I bought the stuff and used it but it never worked that well. Maybe I was impatient, maybe it just took too much work. Elmers wood filler works so much better.

 

[Art Upton]

just curious what ya'all use for sanding sealer? i really didn't want to buy a gallon.. but would if i have to. i did find 'DELUXE Materials Sand 'n Seal' on Amazon. 8oz. (i'd hate to buy a gallon, and have it go to waste. Amazon.com For my zephyr i did not use sanding sealer.. this said, on my future builds, i'll definitely use it.

Are they all the same... OR is there a preferred manufacture?

thanks in advance,
r-

I use that on LPR balsa fins. No fumes in the house either,

 

[Cape Byron]

i did find 'DELUXE Materials Sand 'n Seal' on Amazon.

I’ve used it, but I wasn’t really impressed. Many, many coats required.

 

[MikeT]

I’ve used it, but I wasn’t really impressed. Many, many coats required.

I use it on balsa and ply with good results. I normally do 3 coats. A lot of it depends upon the balsa a ply quality.

 

[Bill S]

I have no luck with sealers so far. They all require many coats to really seal the grain. I get tired of it about after the third or fourth coat, alternating sanding, etc. Putty is a pain too, but I get better results with putty than brush on sealers.

 

[mitchell2701]

I have had good luck with “Delta Creative Ceramacoat Prep All Purpose Sealer” for balsa and plywood fins. It’s cheap and available at craft stores and amazon. It requires a few coats, but since it’s water based, each coat dries in under 10 minutes.

 

[prfesser]

I know very little about fine woodworking, but...do the quart/gallon cans of "sanding sealer" actually fill the grain of wide-open stuff like balsa? Or do they merely seal it and permit a topcoat of some sort? From the label on the quart of Minwax Sanding Sealer on my shelf, it sounds more like the latter. Of course, if you do enough coats it'll fill those big cracks. But it seemed to take a fair few coats when I tried it. Fewer coats and less sanding is my aim.

Sometime when I'm feeling up-to-snuff I'll mix some actual filler materials---talc, Q-cells, wood dust---into that sanding sealer and see if it works any better for filling the grain and presenting a nice smooth solid surface.

 

[SolarYellow]

I know very little about fine woodworking, but...do the quart/gallon cans of "sanding sealer" actually fill the grain of wide-open stuff like balsa? Or do they merely seal it and permit a topcoat of some sort? From the label on the quart of Minwax Sanding Sealer on my shelf, it sounds more like the latter. Of course, if you do enough coats it'll fill those big cracks. But it seemed to take a fair few coats when I tried it. Fewer coats and less sanding is my aim.

My assumption is the latter. It's a "sealer," not a "filler." Seals the grain so whatever you put on after that doesn't keep soaking in. So something like sanding sealer, sand it, filler-primer, sand it (an advantage of an oil-based sanding sealer might be that you could start wet sanding with this step), thin primer, fine (wet) sand, topcoats.

So in essence, the sanding sealer would be an alternative to the CWF dance on wood parts. Still need something for spirals.

 

[rkoenn]

In the old days when I started flying rockets I used Pactra balsa filler coat followed by two or three Pactra sanding sealer coats. Of course they quit making it long ago, I think, so when I started doing some building about 10 years back I found the Deluxe Materials Sand 'n Seal. I've used it on all my builds over the past 3 years and like it. It probably isn't quite as good as the old Pactra products but it has no odor, which is really nice, and being acrylic is water based so just wash the brush out in water. It comes close to the old Pactra products and you can get it in a smaller quantity. My bottle has done a half dozen kits so far with lots of balsa and I have over 75% remaining. https://www.hobbylinc.com/deluxe-materials-sand-n-seal-8-5oz-250ml-hobby-and-craft-wood-filler-bd49

 

[lr64]

I've really enjoyed using Sig Sanding Sealer. Even with good ventilation. ;-) I think it's a step up from dope and talcum powder. Or a huge step if you can't find any without asbestos! You can get nice, smooth surfaces.

 

[augendoc]

+1 for regular shellac. -1 because can't get the right thinner to clean the brushes in California.

The best way to deal with shellac is to have a dedicated fine-haired shellac brush and just let it dry out between uses. A few minutes in denatured alcohol or the shellac itself will soften it up again.

For cleaning, if you really need to, use household ammonia and water. I forget the exact concentration, but it works like a charm and is way less expensive than denatured alcohol.

 

[cls]

The best way to deal with shellac is to have a dedicated fine-haired shellac brush and just let it dry out between uses. A few minutes in denatured alcohol or the shellac itself will soften it up again.

For cleaning, if you really need to, use household ammonia and water. I forget the exact concentration, but it works like a charm and is way less expensive than denatured alcohol.

Excellent, I'll try ammonia. Oddly, denatured alcohol is not available in CA, I have to bootleg it from NV. Something about VoCs and smog I guess.

 

[Wrightme43]

Puregrain alcohol works the same.
Everclear if you can buy that in CA

 

[duguy]

Dewaxed shellac is the universal base coat/sanding sealer. Everything sticks to it.
The best filler in the world is called Timbermate. You can get it from amazon, woodcraft, or rockler.
Thin timbermate with tap water, paint on, enjoy the easiest sanding you have ever experienced.
Primer or dewaxed shellac locks it in since it is water soluble until sealed.
Alcohol will remove or thin shellac.

 

[duguy]

What is the difference between Timbermate and Elmer's wood filler? I use Elmer's thinned with water in a blender until is is a smooth, thin paste then sand and paint. The thickness that I use is about that of chocolate syrup. Once painted, I have found it is the most durable one that is easy to use.

 

[Wrightme43]

Timbermate as far as I can tell is freeze dried, untrasonicly pulverized wood. It dries very quickly, doesn't shrink, and sands like butter. I promise I was very skeptical at first, but I use it exclusively now. It is just the best filler, I have ever found.

 

[augendoc]

Excellent, I'll try ammonia. Oddly, denatured alcohol is not available in CA, I have to bootleg it from NV. Something about VoCs and smog I guess.

Next thing you know, they'll ban razor blades because you might cut yourself. I live in California too. My flooring guy over a decade ago had to get his floor finish in Nevada and even then he could only get it in quarts. He was kinda goofy, come to think of it...

It seems to be not only the ethanol (VOCs) but the denaturant, which I suspect is methanol in most cases. Not sure why isopropyl alcohol is OK and why they can still justify selling buttloads of ethanol-laced automotive fuel.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Timbermate as far as I can tell is freeze dried, untrasonicly pulverized wood. It dries very quickly, doesn't shrink, and sands like butter. I promise I was very skeptical at first, but I use it exclusively now. It is just the best filler, I have ever found.

Steve @Wrightme43 turned me on to this as he is an accomplished woodworker. I struggled with other products recommended on here, the usual consumer cheap stuff. He sent me a small container and it converted me after the first application. I'll never use anything else

 

[ZEDL1]

I prefer using adhesive to apply strong paper to both sides of the fin. It does add weight, but it works very well.
Painting then is also much easier.

 

[bjphoenix]

I prefer using adhesive to apply strong paper to both sides of the fin. It does add weight, but it works very well.
Painting then is also much easier.

I paper all of my fins but I do it for strength. It makes the fins a lot smoother too but balsa grain can still show up through the paper. If I have a really bad piece of balsa I'll put filler on the balsa and sand it before I put on the paper.

 

[WFWalby]

In the old days when I started flying rockets I used Pactra balsa filler coat followed by two or three Pactra sanding sealer coats. Of course they quit making it long ago, I think, so when I started doing some building about 10 years back I found the Deluxe Materials Sand 'n Seal. I've used it on all my builds over the past 3 years and like it. It probably isn't quite as good as the old Pactra products but it has no odor, which is really nice, and being acrylic is water based so just wash the brush out in water. It comes close to the old Pactra products and you can get it in a smaller quantity. My bottle has done a half dozen kits so far with lots of balsa and I have over 75% remaining. https://www.hobbylinc.com/deluxe-materials-sand-n-seal-8-5oz-250ml-hobby-and-craft-wood-filler-bd49

Bought some of the Sand 'n Seal a couple days before I saw this post and just got around to using it a couple days ago. I really like it. It's as good or better than the old pactra sealer but with little smell and water cleanup. Two coats over plywood fins and it's smooth as glass. Highly recommended.

 

[tlainhart]

Dewaxed shellac is the universal base coat/sanding sealer. Everything sticks to it.
The best filler in the world is called Timbermate. You can get it from amazon, woodcraft, or rockler.
Thin timbermate with tap water, paint on, enjoy the easiest sanding you have ever experienced.
Primer or dewaxed shellac locks it in since it is water soluble until sealed.
Alcohol will remove or thin shellac.

So you'll start with Timbermate, and then seal that with shellac? Any problems with enamel (e.g. Rustoleum) over the shellac?