Project Gemini

kidagain · Dec 17, 2012

Hi all,

This weekends launch was long in the making. I started on this project in April 2010 when I purchased the raw parts to assemble what you see. It was a start and stop process as I struggled with certain materials I chose and moving three times in the last two years. This was a “scratch build” and I used the original directions from the 1973 Estes “K-21” model. I updated some parts for strength, realism and made it more detailed than the original Estes design. I tried to do it justice to honor the real thing. This is a semi-scale of the Gemini 7 mission with Astronauts Borman and Lovell from late 1965. I picked this mission as it was the longest. 13 days and 18 hours. The serial number on the side gives away this tiny detail. From what I hear the ship was a bit gamey in the last few days, I can only imagine.. whew...

Anyway, It was a beautiful flight right up to the point when the chute came out. From what I recall I was past the Apogee and in a nose down config. The ejection popped and snapped the ¼ inch elastic shock cord. It separated and I lost the nose cone “capsule” and chute to the lake . That was very unfortunate, but luckily I saved all my scale data and supplemental build directions to replace it. You will see the detail I put into it below. I used photo quality paper to print out the panels for the capsule and then added the gold tint windows and gold circular panel on the front. The main body fluttered down, not a scratch. Thanks for retrieving it Matt while I chased the separated chute. The see through “fin can” can slip off for display purposes. That thing was a challenge to make and the glue solvent I think shortened my life I am sure, ha ha. I will remake the capsule soon as I have ordered a new nose cone from SEMROC. I will also change to a longer woven shock cord and shorter delay so I don’t repeat the mishap. Experimentation is one the reasons I like this hobby. Did I make it better than original kit? I ‘d like to think I added a bit of panache that the Estes version lacked. In all it was a good launch from the stand point of stable flight.

Two engines canted and Clustered. I think I will go with C6-3 to have an earlier ejection.

I used the Lower Hudson Valley Wraps https://jleslie48.com/index.html suggested by Jharding on the capsule and upper stage.I ended up rescaling all the wraps to make them work. The Windows and gold colored disk on the nose got a treatment of reflective gold sticky paper. I took the second stage wrap and edited it on Photo Shop. I broke it down into three decal wraps. They added some very cool depth to detail to the models second stage I have not seen anywhere else. They especially look cool with the reflective chrome paper shining underneath on that stage. You can see I used the chrome on both stages. The engine bells got a treatment of epoxy/sand/epoxy to the cardstock I used. The epoxy impregnated and strenghtened the shape. I capped off the engine bell rear (seen in photo) with the "Fix-it" epoxy clay Apogee Components sells. Sanded it smooth to shape. It really made them bullet proof. I wrapped the bells in the reflective chrome sticky backed paper. I then wrapped them in the decals I made in Photo Shop to break up all that chrome. Finally I used pin striping material I bought at the local hobby store to wrap the top and bottom of the bells to give them a finished look. The staging sectoin on the booster is the reflecitve chrome paper sprayed with dull coat. The large black areas were initially decals, but they fell apart in my hands and were too delicate. I bought them online, but had poor results. I ended up painting them on. I guess sometimes old school is best. The interstage rectangle shaped exhaust ports were decals I made in Photo shop. The Round ports were flat black painted decal paper. I punched out the holes using a paper hole-punch. Amazingly they are same size as the decals call for. I used carbon fiber in the engine mount struts just for kicks and strength. The Capsule and White End Shroud are made with Glossy Photo Paper, which took ink much better than any paper I tried and the detail lines absolutely popped out much cleaner than anything else I tried to print on. I will tell you though it was a monster of a challenge getting those wraps onto the rocket without damage. I had to create procedures in handling them. Once in place I shot the whole thing in gloss clear coat to protect it and to keep the chromed parts smudge free!

Thanks for the help with launch prep Dave!

NJRick · Dec 17, 2012

WOW! beautiful job! the Gemini Titan was such a cool looking rocket. you did an awesome job!

kidagain said:
Hi all,

This weekends launch was long in the making. I started on this project in April 2010 when I purchased the raw parts to assemble what you see. It was a start and stop process as I struggled with certain materials I chose and moving three times in the last two years. This was a “scratch build” and I used the original directions from the 1973 Estes “K-21” model. I updated some parts for strength, realism and made it more detailed than the original Estes design. I tried to do it justice to honor the real thing. This is a semi-scale of the Gemini 7 mission with Astronauts Borman and Lovell from late 1965. I picked this mission as it was the longest. 13 days and 18 hours. The serial number on the side gives away this tiny detail. From what I hear the ship was a bit gamey in the last few days, I can only imagine.. whew...

Anyway, It was a beautiful flight right up to the point when the chute came out. From what I recall I was past the Apogee and in a nose down config. The ejection popped and snapped the ¼ inch elastic shock cord. It separated and I lost the nose cone “capsule” and chute to the lake L. That was very unfortunate, but luckily I saved all my scale data and supplemental build directions to replace it. You will see the detail I put into it below. I used photo quality paper to print out the panels for the capsule and then added the gold tint windows and gold circular panel on the front. The main body fluttered down, not a scratch. Thanks for retrieving it Matt while I chased the separated chute. The see through “fin can” can slip off for display purposes. That thing was a challenge to make and the glue solvent I think shortened my life I am sure, ha ha. I will remake the capsule soon as I have ordered a new nose cone already from SEMROC. I will also change to a longer shock cord and shorter delay to I don’t repeat the mishap. Experimentation is one the reasons I like this hobby. Did I make it better than original kit? I ‘d like to think I added a bit of panache that the Estes version lacked. In all it was a good flight from the stand point of stable flight.

Two engines canted and Clustered. I used C6-5’s. I think I will go with C6-3 to have an earlier ejection.

I used the Hudson River Wraps on the capsule and upper stage.The Windows and gold colored disk on the nose got a treatment of reflective gold sticky paper. I took the second stage wrap and edited it on Photo shop. I broke it down into three decal wraps. They added some very cool depth to detail to the model I have not seen anywhere else. They especially look cool with the reflective chrome paper shining though underneath on the upper stage. You can see I used the chrome on both stages. The engine bells got a treatment of epoxy to the cardstock then I capped off the ends (seen in photo) with the "Fix-it" epoxy clay Apogee Components sells. It really made them bullet proof. Then I wrapped the bells in the reflective chrome sticky backed paper. I then wrapped them in the decals I made in Photo shop to break up all that chrome. Finally I used pin striping material I bought at the local hobby store to wrap the top and bottom of the bells to give them a finished look. The mid dull sections on the booster is the reflecitve chrome paper wrapped then dull coted. The large black areas were initially decals, but they fell apart in my hands and were too delicate. I bought them online, but had poor results. I ended up painting them on. The rectangle exhaust ports were decals I ended up making. The Round ones were flat back painted decal paper. I punched out the holes using a paper hole-punch. Amazingly they are same size as the decals call for. I used carbon fiber in the engine mount struts just for kicks and strength. The Capsule and White End Shroud was Glossy Photo Paper, which took ink much better than any paper I tried and the detail lines absolutely popped out much cleaner than anything else I tried to print on. I will tell you though it was a monster of a challenge getting those wraps onto the rocket without damage. I had to create procedures in handling them. Once in place I shot the whole thing in Testers lacquer to protect it and to keep the chromed parts smudge free!

Thanks for the help with launch prep Dave!

Daddyisabar · Dec 17, 2012

Even the righteous guy who looks like he is praying in the first photo was not enough, maybe he was praying to the wrong rocket gods? It was a jolly good flight and of one of the prettiest rockets I have seen in a while, much better than the original. Darn those rubber shock cords but it was all true to the old school parameters. I thought Kidagain's beauty was good for staying out of the lake, but I later heard from another observer that the chute/cone caught some unexpected wicked wind down by the lake and landed just in the water. I ran down to the lake with Kidagain only to see the capsule and chute slowly drifting out to the center of the lake and getting lodged on the edge of the thin ice. It had landed right by an inlet and the current from the inlet was pushing it away from the shore. Even when the fishermen tried to cast out to catch it they fell short, and the ice shattered like thin glass. The boat ramp was closed and light was getting short.

The second part of the story occurs when Kidagain and I are walking back up the hill by the lake. Looking out over the lake we could see the capsule and chute floating up against the ice. Such pain of the true scale guy is seldom seen, being able to look at your work of art but not being able to recover it. Just then Kidagain stumbled over the decayed remains of my Quest Intrepid glider that had been missing for a year and a day. It was so spooky when I told the story to a pretty Christian lady at the launch I said that something divine must at hand, one rocket lost and another resurrected. No more pagan rocket gods nonsense, this must be something else.

The third part of the story is the fun part. Like Perceval in the Excalibur movie I had just seen on BBC America, I could not stand to see beautiful capsule lost, so I ran down to the edge of the lake for a second time. There I saw the Gemini floating off into the sun set. Suddenly I heard the sound of Wagers Funeral music in the calm air. Then the Lady of the Lake, her hand covered the finest shimmering samite, did rise and gently cusp the capsule into the bosom of the water, taking it with her to someday return with the true King. As her hand submerged I heard her say The rocket and King are one. Then followed the music of Carmina Burana as I ran away in panic. I hope this true story will dull the pain for Kidagain as he sets upon his new capsule quest.

I forgot to mention Kidagain brought the rocket to the launch wrapped in swaddling cloth. Only a few more days until the Solstice, and then maybe it will begin its journey back to this world. Darn it, now I thought I said no more pagan stuff!

Good to see more local club members on TRF!

hornet driver · Dec 17, 2012

Pem Tech · Dec 17, 2012

Excellent work.....

sodmeister · Dec 18, 2012

That is one great looking rocket ,beautiful work !! I would love to do a large scratch build for myself one day ,just gotta have one !

Take care

Paul T

Daddyisabar · Dec 18, 2012

Some nice stuff flying at CRASH. Hope to see future posts on Space 1999 Eagle flights that spin down to the ground like in the real shows opening credits, perfect Mercury Atlas and BOMARC flights, bullet proof Little Joe escape towers and enough old school stuff for anyone over 40.

kidagain · Dec 18, 2012

Thanks for the comments Daddy. I love to fly my old school stuff as you have witnessed. Lots more to come in the next year.

dlazarus6660 · Dec 24, 2012

From what I hear the ship was a bit gamey in the last few days, I can only imagine.. whew...

Discusting is all I can think of! Imagine being stuck sitting in a chair, having to go to the bathroom, and no privacy! P.U.!

snuggles · Dec 24, 2012

I have an Estes plastic Gemini Capsule(BT60) I'd be willing to part with....
I will consider trades ETC......
Thoughts??
Mark T

plano-doug · Dec 24, 2012

From what I hear the ship was a bit gamey in the last few days, I can only imagine.. whew...

Disgusting is all I can think of! Imagine being stuck sitting in a chair, having to go to the bathroom, and no privacy! P.U.!

From what I've read, the Gemini capsule was little more than a slightly enlarged Mercury capsule, a one-man vehicle. Both of them were developed by McDonnell in St Louis. Having read of the longer Gemini missions, I can't help but wonder why they didn't make the capsule larger to provide a little more space for the crew.

That said, I suppose it's not fair to dump on McDonnell - they built to spec, and NASA and the astronaut corps were quite involved in the process. Gus Grissom spent lots of time in St Louis participating in the development, so everyone had a hand in it, for better or worse

But the thought has crossed my mind, why did McDonnell, having built the Mercury and Gemini capsules, not get the Apollo contract, too? Was NASA somehow disappointed in the Gemini and looking for someone else? Or was it simply low bidder and the usual politics?

Doug

.

luke strawwalker · Dec 24, 2012

plano-doug said:
From what I've read, the Gemini capsule was little more than a slightly enlarged Mercury capsule, a one-man vehicle. Both of them were developed by McDonnell in St Louis. Having read of the longer Gemini missions, I can't help but wonder why they didn't make the capsule larger to provide a little more space for the crew.

That said, I suppose it's not fair to dump on McDonnell - they built to spec, and NASA and the astronaut corps were quite involved in the process. Gus Grissom spent lots of time in St Louis participating in the development, so everyone had a hand in it, for better or worse

But the thought has crossed my mind, why did McDonnell, having built the Mercury and Gemini capsules, not get the Apollo contract, too? Was NASA somehow disappointed in the Gemini and looking for someone else? Or was it simply low bidder and the usual politics?

Doug

.

One word-- politics...

There's some interesting stuff about this over on the NSF forum... (nasaspaceflight.com)
Later! OL JR

cjp · Dec 24, 2012

Did you use clear or white decal paper for your decals?Nice black and white wraps.

chadrog · Dec 24, 2012

Great rocket! I've always been especially fond of the Gemini program due to the (very small) part my father played in the recovery of Gemini XI. Your attention to detail is exquisite, right out of the pages of the commemorative book I hold dear.

kidagain · Dec 27, 2012

cjp said:
Did you use clear or white decal paper for your decals?Nice black and white wraps.

Thanks for the comment. I used the Testers Clear decal sheets with a overspray of clear gloss from Krylon. I never use the Tester decal spray as its very poor and I think its just a thinned out lacquer.

kidagain · Dec 27, 2012

chadrog said:
Great rocket! I've always been especially fond of the Gemini program due to the (very small) part my father played in the recovery of Gemini XI. Your attention to detail is exquisite, right out of the pages of the commemorative book I hold dear.
View attachment 109026 View attachment 109027 View attachment 109028

That was my goal. Thank You very much.

JStitz · Dec 27, 2012

Any Astronaut comments here? They had respect for the Gemini boosters..a "Hot Rod Ride" as they described it...the release of the capsule was explosive and violent ..they got shucked back and forth between the harness and seat very violently as I have read...but they loved it...Just a job..

aerostadt · Dec 27, 2012

JStitz said:
Any Astronaut comments here? They had respect for the Gemini boosters..a "Hot Rod Ride" as they described it...the release of the capsule was explosive and violent ..they got shucked back and forth between the harness and seat very violently as I have read...but they loved it...Just a job..

Wally Schirra rode in both the Mercury and Gemini capsules. He said that the Gemini flights felt solid compared to the Mercury flights, because the Atlas was like pushing a balloon through the atmosphere. (The Atlas pressurized Liquid oxygen tank was also part of the the external airframe for the missile.)

luke strawwalker · Dec 28, 2012

aerostadt said:
(The Atlas pressurized Liquid oxygen tank was also part of the the external airframe for the missile.)

This is true of practically every missile and rocket after the V-2... The only difference with the Atlas (and other "balloon tank" construction vehicles like the Centaur) is that they were constructed of materials SO thin that they REQUIRE internal tank pressure to remain rigid and retain structural integrity... Most rockets are constructed in a such a way that the tank walls can support the vehicle's weight and shape without internal pressurization, unlike Atlas. However, ALL these rockets use tank pressurization in flight to stiffen and strengthen the tank walls (much like an inflated tire on your car supporting the vehicle's weight). The pressurization not only helps push the propellants down the lines to the rocket engine turbopump inlets, (helping to avoid cavitation and increase flow rates, thus requiring smaller propellant ducts) but also, by stiffening the tank walls, support greater weight of additional stages/payload on top of the rocket, and/or greater vibration, thrust, atmospheric, and gee loads in flight. The main difference is in whether the rocket is self-supporting structurally when UNpressurized or not... rockets like the Saturn IB, Titan II, Titan I, and Saturn V were self-supporting, whereas Atlas and Centaur are both "balloon tank" constructions, where the tanks must remain pressurized to some level to maintain their structural integrity. Atlas was, in fact, made of stainless steel sheets thinner than a dime. If pressurization of the tanks was lost (outside of a special horizontal cradle designed to support the vehicle's tanks when unpressurized and maintain their shape).

The Titan II wasn't much thicker, just constructed in such a way to maintain rigidity (usually through "waffling" or stiffener rings on the inside of the tank walls). In fact, a dropped socket in a missile silo in Arkansas bounced off the silo wall and struck the tank wall of the missile, puncturing it, releasing a toxic cloud of hydrazine propellant which built up as the tank continued to leak for hours after the missile crew and service personnel had evacuated... two technicians were killed when the fumes and missile exploded in the silo when the cloud was ignited accidentally. The silo door was blown off and the nuclear warhead blown some 800 feet away from the silo. So, the missile's tank walls were quite thin...

I had a buddy who was a missile tech on Atlas ICBM's back in the day... they "introduced" the newbs to the missile in an "initiation ceremony" where the existing crew members had the new guy smack the side of the Atlas tank as hard as they could with a rubber mallet-- and try not to knock themselves out when the balloon tank bounced it back at them just as hard as they swung it...

Once pressurized to flight pressurization, though, one was just as rigid as the other... more or less... thrust levels of the engines and the stage masses (thrust/weight ratios) determined how "sporty" of a ride they got... the gee force levels... the Titan II had pretty powerful engines and at burnout was pulling like 10-12 gees on the second stage...

Later! OL JR

aerostadt · Dec 28, 2012

There are instances (there are pictures) where an empty Atlas sitting on the pad with an Agena upper stage installed had its LOX tank buckle.

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/1326/1

kidagain · Dec 28, 2012

I am glad this could inspire some of you to talk about the Real Gemini-Titan, but I respecfully request that the thread does not get hjacked in a direction away from its intent. Thank You.

kidagain · Jan 1, 2013

Made a New Capsule, shiny and new. Ready to Fly again!!!

NJRick · Jan 1, 2013

beautiful job!

kidagain said:
View attachment 110480 View attachment 110481

Made a New Capsule, shiny and new. Ready to Fly again!!!

Daddyisabar · Jan 2, 2013

Wow! That was a quick turn around. The Elves at Santa's workshop must have worked through their Christmas break!

kidagain · Jan 6, 2013

Perfect weather for a redemption day!! All went well after two launches. Straight and stable....

Daddyisabar · Jan 7, 2013

Great job! Maybe time to try a composite cluster to put it into a higher orbit.

Blast it Tom! · Jan 23, 2020

Such a beautiful job! A buddy of mine mentioned to me the other day... "Can you imagine these Gemini missions? It's like spending up to two weeks with the same guy in the front seat of a car!" - and I said, "Yeah, and ONLY in the car - doing your business and all!"

Our astronauts truly are a breed apart.

By the way, I was poking around a bit - but has anyone ever tried to model the paraglider-style Gemini recovery? I don't think it ever got past the concept stage, but just curious. Couldn't find anything with my searches.

Ez2cDave · Jan 28, 2020

Blast it Tom! said:
By the way, I was poking around a bit - but has anyone ever tried to model the paraglider-style Gemini recovery? I don't think it ever got past the concept stage, but just curious. Couldn't find anything with my searches.

"EL KABONG" . . .