Prayers For Maui...

[K'Tesh]

I'm so sad to hear about the fire that has devastated the community of Lahaina, Maui. I have fond memories of Hawaii, and visits to Lahaina town are among them.

Prayers for all those affected.

 

[Hobie1dog]

I missed that news, 6 dead

 

[Rob Campbell]

Amen!

 

[tsmmiller]

News now reporting at least 36 dead. Very sad...

 

[kuririn]

https://www.hawaiicommunityfoundation.org/maui-strong

 

[Hardline]

I donated today to the Maui Food Bank and the Maui Humane society.

Links if you are interested:

https://www.mauihumanesociety.org/donate-olx/?formID=mainButton
https://mauifoodbank.org/donate/

 

[SDramstad]

I spent some time in Lahaina a few years ago. Incredible place. One of the few places I could keep going back to over and over, now its gone......

 

[Hobie1dog]

12 people resorted to going in the ocean, and were rescued.

 

[MClark]

I have never been to Lahaina, never been to Hawaii.
Long long ago I heard about a place called Lahaina, a magical place, Paradise.
I met someone at a launch who lived there, said it was Paradise. Weather always perfect, the few doors had no locks. Everyone happy. (Many years ago when it was still small)
Now it’s gone. Deleted. Lost. The only thing remaining is the fantasy place in my head. I will never have the opportunity to see the real thing.

Paradise.

 

[Hobie1dog]

The death toll is now up to 53

 

[K'Tesh]

From what I seen in the news, the old banyan tree, the oldest one in the US, was likely killed by the fire.

I couldn't recognize what I was seeing in the overflights, but Hawaii Mixed Plate and the Old Lahaina Luau location look to also be lost.

So many folks have lost not only their homes, but their livelihoods.

 

[Hobie1dog]

1/2 of the Evening News was dedicated to the tragedy

 

[Hobie1dog]

They say 1000 people are unaccounted for.

 

[K'Tesh]

Sadly, the number of people killed has climbed to 93.

Continuing to pray for the folks of Maui.

 

[OverTheTop]

It is getting quite a bit of news coverage here too.

 

[86mustang408w]

It's very sad. I've been watching on the news as much as I can. I have a cousin out there but I have no clue where she's at!!!

 

[Hobie1dog]

Sad to hear a girl say that her Mom went back to get her cell phone and didn't make it.

 

[boatgeek]

Over 100 confirmed dead now. Cause is likely power lines blown down/hit by trees in high winds. According to the paper today, the fire department declared the fire contained and then it flared up again.

On the recovery side, the company that owns the barge I posted about here carries most of the construction materials to the islands from the mainland US. A lot of stuff like lumber, rebar, and plywood doesn't containerize all that nicely, so it's easier to carry on the barge than on container ships. That company has two barges in service and the one discussed above should be carrying cargo by late April. They can carry 17,000 tons over each week with the two barges they have.

On the grim side, conspiracy theorists are already blaming the fires on space lasers, including using a shot of a Falcon 9 liftoff from Vandenberg as justification for their claims. Read this link only if you are OK with losing a little more faith in humanity.

 

[kuririn]

Maui FD was fighting three separate wildfires threatening populated areas.
Kula. Kihei and Lahaina.
The initial Lahaina fire was contained and resources were shifted to the Kula fire.
The Lahaina fire subsequently flared up again.
They say that alerts were sent via cell phone, television and radio.
But if the power was out how many people actually received the alerts?
What gets me is that the state has an extensive network of civil defense sirens to alert the public of threats.
THE SIRENS WERE NEVER SOUNDED.
Many survivors said that they only became aware of the threat when they smelled smoke and heard explosions.
I'm getting more and more PO'd with every passing day.

 

[boatgeek]

Maui FD was fighting three separate wildfires threatening populated areas.
Kula. Kihei and Lahaina.
The initial Lahaina fire was contained and resources were shifted to the Kula fire.
The Lahaina fire subsequently flared up again.
They say that alerts were sent via cell phone, television and radio.
But if the power was out how many people actually received the alerts?
What gets me is that the state has an extensive network of civil defense sirens to alert the public of threats.
THE SIRENS WERE NEVER SOUNDED.
Many survivors said that they only became aware of the threat when they smelled smoke and heard explosions.
I'm getting more and more PO'd with every passing day.

Maybe you can answer this as a resident. I've mainly seen the alert sirens described as tsunami warnings. If that's accurate, if they sounded those, then the immediate response should be to head uphill as quickly as possible. That would be exactly the wrong thing for this fire. If the sirens are "all-hazards" meaning you should check your regular alerts, then I entirely agree with you.

It's wild that tourists were showing up to check into hotels while residents and other tourists were fleeing for their lives.

 

[kuririn]

Maybe you can answer this as a resident. I've mainly seen the alert sirens described as tsunami warnings. If that's accurate, if they sounded those, then the immediate response should be to head uphill as quickly as possible. That would be exactly the wrong thing for this fire. If the sirens are "all-hazards" meaning you should check your regular alerts, then I entirely agree with you.

It's wild that tourists were showing up to check into hotels while residents and other tourists were fleeing for their lives.

When the sirens go off you are supposed to tune in to a radio or tv station to find out the nature of the alert.
A message will appear saying if this is a test or an actual emergency.
They were built in response to the 1946 deadly Hilo tsunami.
But they can be sounded for any emergency: tsunami, fire, nuclear attack.
They are all tested once a month.
Any defective sirens are repaired and yes, they do have battery backup IIRC.

 

[boatgeek]

When the sirens go off you are supposed to tune in to a radio or tv station to find out the nature of the alert.
A message will appear saying if this is a test or an actual emergency.
They were built in response to the 1946 deadly Hilo tsunami.
But they can be sounded for any emergency: tsunami, fire, nuclear attack.
They are all tested once a month.
Any defective sirens are repaired and yes, they do have battery backup IIRC.

Thank you for the clarification. Tar and feathers seems appropriate.

 

[OverTheTop]

Our Black Saturday bushfires back in 2009 burned 59 million acres, 3000 homes destroyed, about 70 dead from the fires and a further 429 from injuries such as smoke inhalation and other medical events. There were three main causes: firebugs deliberately lighting fires, lightning strikes and sparking from power lines.
It seems to me that the power line situation is always not given enough forethought. I heard it was a problem in Hawaii also. Let's hope they rebuild quickly and learn from the sad events.

 

[kuririn]

Our Black Saturday bushfires back in 2009 burned 59 million acres, 3000 homes destroyed, about 70 dead from the fires and a further 429 from injuries such as smoke inhalation and other medical events. There were three main causes: firebugs deliberately lighting fires, lightning strikes and sparking from power lines.
It seems to me that the power line situation is always not given enough forethought. I heard it was a problem in Hawaii also. Let's hope they rebuild quickly and learn from the sad events.

There was a question of why the power utility didn't shut power when high winds were forecast.
Apparently they do that in some areas of the mainland US to preemptively prevent wildfires.
It's controversial, even more so in a tourist destination area.
You would have a lot of upset visitors who came here and found they had no electricity.

 

[OverTheTop]

You would have a lot of upset visitors who came here and found they had no electricity.

They would be more upset if they were barbecued.

 

[kuririn]

They would be more upset if they were barbecued.

So would you have made the call to shut down the power?

 

[boatgeek]

There was a question of why the power utility didn't shut power when high winds were forecast.
Apparently they do that in some areas of the mainland US to preemptively prevent wildfires.
It's controversial, even more so in a tourist destination area.
You would have a lot of upset visitors who came here and found they had no electricity.

That's more common than it used to be. There were a bunch of fires in the last 5 years that were caused by downed power lines in heavy wind. I think that power system managers are getting the message that unhappy customers for a few days is better than a fire that kills a lot of people.

They would be more upset if they were barbecued.

So would you have made the call to shut down the power?

Recognizing that I'm Monday-morning quarterbacking, it would have been reasonable. Dora was forecast to bring in a bunch of wind, and (as I understand it) Maui is really dry right now and has had brush fires sparked by fallen power lines before. It's something that could have been scheduled since the wind impacts from hurricanes are fairly well known.

Alternatively, leaving one truck at the scene of the brush fire to make sure it stayed out would also have done the job.

 

[kuririn]

Red flag conditions (high winds, dried out vegetation and warm temperatures, low humidity and rainfall) were forecast for 2 or 3 days continuous for all islands.
Lacking a crystal ball, where do you shut down the power?
The whole state?
For 3 days?
Not feasible.

 

[OverTheTop]

So would you have made the call to shut down the power?

Red flag conditions (high winds, dried out vegetation and warm temperatures, low humidity and rainfall) were forecast for 2 or 3 days continuous for all islands.
Lacking a crystal ball, where do you shut down the power?
The whole state?
For 3 days?
Not feasible.

Yes, maybe if the risk is too high then shut it down. Might have saved some lives. Not my call, and way above my pay grade. I am not an expert in the field. In our situation it was flagged that increased maintenance (costs had been cut due to privatisation) was the probably fix.

 

[kuririn]

Yes, maybe if the risk is too high then shut it down

How do you quantify "too high"?