Open Rocket

[Lt72884]

That is interesting, assuming it is not a haha. How much is your tuition? What happens if you go over budget, or under budget? What happens if you fail to meet the performance objectives?

Thats all part of the assignment, learning how to stay in the budget, BUT if we go over, thats opportunity for us to learn more about design and how most projects usually go over budget haha. If we fail to meet the objectives, we get to try again. We are doing alot of testing and sims. We have 2 semesters, a full school year for us, to get this figured out. I am now a member of the NAR and We will be doing a lvl 1 build and flight soon.

 

[Lt72884]

I would strongly suggest you learn about building rockets prior to looking for funding for your project. Very strongly suggest.

I agree 100% but, because of time constraints, we have to get funding first so that we CAN buy lvl 1 rocket, then get lvl 2 certified, then build the lvl 3. In between the lvl1 and 2 rockets, this is where most of our design and sims will be. So far, using a lot of information from my fluids class and aerodynamics class, we have figured out a few things. Also, i have studied a lot about the motors we need to use and how they effect design.
Im not proficient by any means, but im learning haha. Also apogee rockets has some interesting software that has a 30 day trial. I am using that as well as OpenRocket.

 

[PayLoad]

This thread has become simply surreal. If you receive funding to build something you have never built before and do not fully understand, for a school project a year from now that you may or may not do, then dammit, I want funding as well. I'm simply and as gently as I can telling you to try & be realistic here, and (this is most important) take the first steps first. Such as learning how & why rockets work. Before going to Thiakol / a US Defense Contractor for a grant. When I was young, I went to my family for "Grants", not Lockheed Martin.

haha

 

[Charles_McG]

Knowing that you’re working with local clubs and following a (somewhat) beaten path will help settle minds here. You’re roughly the n-th person who has asked similar questions - and some have been pretty stubborn. As a group, I suspect forum ‘residents’ have little respect for the professors who toss out a challenge without having the skills/knowledge to mentor their students. ‘Figure it out’ is a way to learn, sure. But this not a harm-free endeavor.

Keep in mind that teams are not certified- individual fliers are. You’ll likely want multiple people certified at each level for personnel redundancy. Also an important lesson - people come and go.

 

[krislhull]

I agree 100% but, because of time constraints, we have to get funding first so that we CAN buy lvl 1 rocket, then get lvl 2 certified, then build the lvl 3. In between the lvl1 and 2 rockets, this is where most of our design and sims will be. So far, using a lot of information from my fluids class and aerodynamics class, we have figured out a few things. Also, i have studied a lot about the motors we need to use and how they effect design.
Im not proficient by any means, but im learning haha. Also apogee rockets has some interesting software that has a 30 day trial. I am using that as well as OpenRocket.

To me, that sounds like rushing into things a little too fast. Have you made contact with the local Utah high power clubs yet? I would highly recommend using the funding that you have now to buy and build a kit that can be used for a level 1 certification. such a kit can be found for around $150 or less. A single use H or I motor can be had for not much as well. I strongly echo many of the sentiments that have been mentioned here: Seek out a local club and experienced flyers IN PERSON, sit and talk with them, let home show you some of their projects, how they go about building their rockets, LEARN from them. I have yet to meet a rocket flyer who will not talk about their projects, and show how they do things. We are a very open group, and love to talk about our hobby.

This thread has become simply surreal. If you receive funding to build something you have never built before and do not fully understand, for a school project a year from now that you may or may not do, then dammit, I want funding as well. I'm simply and as gently as I can telling you to try & be realistic here, and (this is most important) take the first steps first. Such as learning how & why rockets work. Before going to Thiakol / a US Defense Contractor for a grant. When I was young, I went to my family for "Grants", not Lockheed Martin.

Knowing that you’re working with local clubs and following a (somewhat) beaten path will help settle minds here. You’re roughly the n-th person who has asked similar questions - and some have been pretty stubborn. As a group, I suspect forum ‘residents’ have little respect for the professors who toss out a challenge without having the skills/knowledge to mentor their students. ‘Figure it out’ is a way to learn, sure. But this not a harm-free endeavor.

Keep in mind that teams are not certified- individual fliers are. You’ll likely want multiple people certified at each level for personnel redundancy. Also an important lesson - people come and go.

The above quotes give some of the best advice one could give. Listen to them, take what these guys have said to heart. Seek out help and a mentor before you go any farther. Trust me, you will not regret doing that.

 

[Lt72884]

Yes, every team member has now become part of the local utah high power rocket club as well as the NAR.

We all understand this is NOT a harm free project. Safety measures were the very first question asked in our group meetings.

We are ALL becoming certified, not just one member, that would be way to irresponsible on our end.

Only reason i mention thiokol is because of the post someone mentioned on page 2 to get some sponsors. I have also been offered a job at thiokol to help with the GEM63 motors, but still debating if i want to

My entire team is made up of aerospace engineers, since this is capstone for our class we know how and why rockets work, we are just doing the design principle now.

I have done about 5 to 6 hours of flight sims in OR this weekend to see what we can do. We have some ideas now that we want to test out. We are getting some kits as well

I understand all of this groups concerns very much. We are a very realistic team. We are not made up of just friends want to launch rockets. This is a REAL and very important project. The entire team has had years of math, science, physics, fluids, aerodynamics and design classes. We are just simply trying to get all our ducks in a row and take what we have learned in years of school from chemistry, o-chem, strengths, material science and the classes listed above and now make something so we can get jobs. This is NOT a fly by night project

 

[MadRocketer]

I have done about 5 to 6 hours of flight sims in OR this weekend to see what we can do. We have some ideas now that we want to test out. We are getting some kits as well

Simulations are great for design and understanding what to expect from the rocket.
However, If you have not built a rocket yet (I have not read all of this or the other thread) you really need to do that right now. Nothing can compare to a real world, hands on, getting dirty, messing things up and fixing it type of experience.
Build something that goes up and comes down safely. Then build something that goes up farther and faster and comes down safely. Next, something that you must have a tracking device in or else you will never find it again, that comes down safely. The same rocket could be used for all of these tasks, but multiple builds will increase your precision and skill set.
Remember; the up part is easy, the down part is much more difficult.

 

[PayLoad]

And reading it on a forum pales in comparison to actually making something yourself. That "AhHa" moment when you say "so that is what they were talking about". All the reading in the world does not compare to getting your hands dirty, making mistakes, learning not to make them again.

"Remember; the up part is easy, the down part is much more difficult." A better statement of fact there is not.

 

[tsmith1315]

My entire team is made up of aerospace engineers, since this is capstone for our class we know how and why rockets work, we are just doing the design principle now.

You're in good company on this forum, rocketry seems to be a magnet for engineers and technical types. Lots of engineers here, some are working on real rockets at NASA, now.

It's good to hear that you're connected with the the club. Attending those launches may be more helpful than you'd think.

Tip: When it's time to do your certification flights, don't plan on sharing motor hardware between all of them.

 

[Lt72884]

You're in good company on this forum, rocketry seems to be a magnet for engineers and technical types. Lots of engineers here, some are working on real rockets at NASA, now.

It's good to hear that you're connected with the the club. Attending those launches may be more helpful than you'd think.

Tip: When it's time to do your certification flights, don't plan on sharing motor hardware between all of them.

I have been offered a job at thiokol who makes the motors for nasa. Still debating haha.
Ok, i have run into an interesting problem.. I think i might have misunderstood something somewhere.. In order to do a lvl 1 flight, we need at least a H motor, but we cant buy an H motor unless we are lvl 1 certified??? something is off hahaha

 

[PayLoad]

You are allowed to purchase one (1) H or I motor for your certification attempt without being already certified.

 

[Lt72884]

You are allowed to purchase one (1) H or I motor for your certification attempt without being already certified.

ok, i could not find that in the NAR pdf i have. Thanks for clarafying that. What if we need a second motor because of some weird issue?

thaks

 

[PayLoad]

If you fail in your first attempt at level one, you can then buy another motor for certification purposes. You should NOT be able to get two certification motors at once.

 

[Antares JS]

Damn, thats a great idea!!!! I live down the street from Thiokol who makes solid rocket motors for Elon

You kind of broke my brain with that sentence. Thiokol no longer exists. It became part of ATK at some point, which merged with Orbital Sciences in 2014 to become Orbital ATK, and now is part of Northrop Grumman after they bought out Orbital ATK. Also, Elon Musk/SpaceX does not use solid rocket motors.

 

[PayLoad]

Lucy? You got some 'splaining to do. I learned years ago not to BS too much here - you are literally fencing with a room full of rocket scientists.

 

[Lt72884]

You kind of broke my brain with that sentence. Thiokol no longer exists. It became part of ATK at some point, which merged with Orbital Sciences in 2014 to become Orbital ATK, and now is part of Northrop Grumman after they bought out Orbital ATK. Also, Elon Musk/SpaceX does not use solid rocket motors.

HAHA, yeah, i still call it thiokol because my grandparents worked there. It will always be thiokol for me. For elon, that depends. about 3 blocks from my house is a large facility, who makes the motors privately for him. Last year there was a fire and the entire side of town had to evacuate.
amazon just got a very large contract with the facility by my house for their satellite system.

 

[Antares JS]

HAHA, yeah, i still call it thiokol because my grandparents worked there. It will always be thiokol for me. For elon, that depends. about 3 blocks from my house is a large facility, who makes the motors privately for him. Last year there was a fire and the entire side of town had to evacuate.
amazon just got a very large contract with the facility by my house for their satellite system.

Understandable about the Thiokol bit.

SpaceX does not use solid rocket motors and has no facility in Utah. If someone there is telling you they are working for Elon, they are BS'ing you.

For the last bit, I assume you are referring to the huge order of GEM boosters that NG just got from ULA, part of which is for launching the Kuiper satellites.

 

[Lt72884]

Understandable about the Thiokol bit.

SpaceX does not use solid rocket motors and has no facility in Utah. If someone there is telling you they are working for Elon, they are BS'ing you.

For the last bit, I assume you are referring to the huge order of GEM boosters that NG just got from ULA, part of which is for launching the Kuiper satellites.

correct, Elon does not use solid motors, but that does not mean he is not using privately run groups in other states to make them without others knowing. Could this person who lives by me be telling me a bunch of BS that he makes motors for ELon, most likely hahaha.
However, a lot of companies do that. They will have smaller groups make them something and no one knows it. The shop is actually labeled as a "storage unit" on google maps, but really its a gentleman who runs a private shop and does indeed make motors for rockets. But are they for Elon like he says? possibly. Maybe maybe not. What i do know is true is he does make rocket motors. Now he has told me he has made some for Elon, thats the questionable part haha, but it is possible. and his shop is not small by any means

Government is famous for doing this type of thing, so why cant Elon or anyone else do the same tactic? The stealth bomber was kept in a regular shed with no guards posted or any type of signs.

Possibly. My friend i grew up with and have know for 30 years works at northrup and the GEM is his current project. My current professor was one of the design engineers for the GEM63 and they were both telling me about the amazon contract thats all i know about it

 

[Hobie1dog]

This is just a thank you to those have taken their time to develop this program for us to use. I delayed using it out of fear, but once I finally started watching a couple of tutorials, I'm now at least familiar with it enough that I can design/change a rocket around and feel confident that it will fly properly. I'm having fun with it now.

Thanks again.