no more kneeling or squatting

[MikeyDSlagle]

I didn't even know this was a thing. I made one a few years back for my own use.
We always called them rod couplers. And if they are standard 1/4-20...less than a quarter at McMaster. Not dissuading anyone from buying the Adeptor. Just adding to the conversation.
I use a tap quite regularly. Especially 4-40, 6-32 and whatever the #8 and #10 are. Even bought some 2-56 for sheer pins.

 

[kuririn]

For those of us who already have a tap & die set, the cost, including the thumb screw, is about $1.25 +/-.

I always have to laugh when I hear someone say "I already have the tools so it's practically free!" Well, you had to PAY to GET the tools in the first place right? Also have to add in the price of the drill, drill bit, metal punch, and drill press or bench vise. To be fair, this should be allocated over the number of jobs that the tool is used for over it's lifetime.
And then there is the matter of time/labor. Let's say your time is worth $50 an hour. Of course, if you were a lawyer, mechanic, doctor, or pro athlete it would be much higher than that. So you multiply that by
1. Time to research correct size of all thread nuts to fit the tripod and size of thumb screws.
2. Time to drive to local hardware store, buy items, and drive home.
3. Time to set up power tools to safely drill holes and tap threads for thumb screws.
Let's say you drive and work fast so it takes maybe an hour to do all that. So you're already over $50 for two units.

Do the math !

Done! And the Adeptor is still a bargain. Especially for those of us who don't own a machine shop at home filled with power tools.

 

[Ez2cDave]

I always have to laugh when I hear someone say "I already have the tools so it's practically free!" Well, you had to PAY to GET the tools in the first place right? Also have to add in the price of the drill, drill bit, metal punch, and drill press or bench vise. To be fair, this should be allocated over the number of jobs that the tool is used for over it's lifetime.
And then there is the matter of time/labor. Let's say your time is worth $50 an hour. Of course, if you were a lawyer, mechanic, doctor, or pro athlete it would be much higher than that. So you multiply that by
1. Time to research correct size of all thread nuts to fit the tripod and size of thumb screws.
2. Time to drive to local hardware store, buy items, and drive home.
3. Time to set up power tools to safely drill holes and tap threads for thumb screws.
Let's say you drive and work fast so it takes maybe an hour to do all that. So you're already over $50 for two units.

Done! And the Adeptor is still a bargain. Especially for those of us who don't own a machine shop at home filled with power tools.

The cost of a single drill bit and tap is $7.00

You can't assign a monetary value to "leisure time" . . . This is a hobby, not a career.

I guarantee you they didn't spend the money to patent the "Adeptor". They may have trademarked the name, but that's it. A quick search could verify that. With that said, one could easily pick up a batch of the components and start blowing them out on eBay for $5.00 a pop, including postage . . .

1. Tripods are a standard 1/4-20 thread . . . If they weren't "standardized" cameras would not fit every tripod.
2. No "special trip" would be required. The items would simply be picked up while doing other shopping.
3. Time to "set-up" - Clamp the nut in a vise, put the bit in the drill, drill the hole, use the tap ( about 15 minutes max ).

 

[kuririn]

The cost of a single drill bit and tap is $7.00

You can't assign a monetary value to "leisure time" . . . This is a hobby, not a career.

I guarantee you they didn't spend the money to patent the "Adeptor". They may have trademarked the name, but that's it. A quick search could verify that. With that said, one could easily pick up a batch of the components and start blowing them out on eBay for $5.00 a pop, including postage . . .

1. Tripods are a standard 1/4-20 thread . . . If they weren't "standardized" cameras would not fit every tripod.
2. No "special trip" would be required. The items would simply be picked up while doing other shopping.
3. Time to "set-up" - Clamp the nut in a vise, put the bit in the drill, drill the hole, use the tap ( about 15 minutes max ).

Cost of drill?
Cost of bench vise or drill press?
And I know tripod mounting bolts are standardized, but I wouldn't know WHAT SIZE it is off the top of my head without spending the time to look it up. Wouldn't want to pick up the wrong all thread nut size.
And no matter what you call it, production time still has value. Especially if it could be spent doing something else you would rather be doing. Like family time.
As far as 1000% markup, take the case of a cup of morning joe at your local diner. Let's say you pay X $. Do you really think the cost of materials comes anywhere close to X $? More like pennies to the dollar. You are paying for the VALUE ADDED, as well as the business overhead, labor, and profit. I would be surprised if the markup was LESS than 1000%. Are you saying that no one should visit their local diner for coffee and instead make it at home?
I have enough hand and power tools to take care of 90% of the repairs to my home and auto. The other 10% gets repaired by a professional tradesman. I also have three drills. I DO NOT have a shop table and bench vise. I think it would be safe to say that a fair number of people don't even own a drill. So I'll say it again, $12 and change is a bargain.

 

[jadebox]

With that said, one could easily pick up a batch of the components and start blowing them out on eBay for $5.00 a pop, including postage . . .

Okay. eBay and the credit card processor will take about 12% of the $5.00 leaving $4.40. The cost of postage will be at least $2.66 leaving $1.74. The envelope and label will cost about $.80 leaving less than $1.00 to cover your labor and the cost of producing the product (acquiring the materials and tools, development, testing, marketing, licenses and taxes, and other overhead).

 

[lakeroadster]

I have this camera tripod dealio set-up in my shop, using a $1.24 Everbuilt coupling nut from Home Depot and an old camera tripod. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-4-in-20-tpi-Zinc-Rod-Coupling-Nuts-822251/204337387

What I've found is using a camera tripod as a rocket launch platform just doesn't work well. The tripod is to light weight as is discussed above. Then if you add ballast or tie down straps to stabilize the tripod, the convenience of using the tripod isn't really "convenient".

And that's when I came up with the Launch Horse, using stuff I had in the shop.

 

[jadebox]

What I've found is using a camera tripod as a rocket launch platform just doesn't work well. The tripod is too light weight as is discussed above. Then if you add ballast or tie down straps to stabilize the tripod, the convenience of using the tripod isn't really "convenient".

It depends a lot on the tripod and the size the rockets you launch. We bought a bunch of tripods from China thinking we would sell them along with the Adeptor, launch rod, and a blast plate as a set. The tripods turned out to be too lightweight for even the smallest of rockets. We ended up selling them for about what we paid for them.

A better tripod works well. You can probably find heavy video tripods at thrift stores since heavy cameras are not as common now.

 

[lakeroadster]

A better tripod works well. You can probably find heavy video tripods at thrift stores since heavy cameras are not as common now.

Good point. However the other issue with the big tall tripod.. easily sliding the rocket onto the launch rod. For a 6 ft tall person, ideally the top of the launch rod needs to be less than 7 ft tall. So if you've got a 4 ft launch rod a 3 ft high launch platform is just about ideal. It's just the right height for connecting leads and getting the rocket onto the launch rod.

That also puts the launch rod above the "you'll poke your eye out kid" height.

 

[jadebox]

If you flip the tripod head over to "portrait" mode, the launch rod is horizontal (careful, "you'll poke your eye out") to load the rocket then flip it back up for launch. Also, you don't have to extend the legs of the tripod all the way. It'll be more stable with the legs less extended, also.

BTW, I still have quite a few of those cheap tripods that I mentioned. I am considering getting a bunch of cheap video cameras and recording a launch from a dozen different angles.

 

[kuririn]

The medium duty tripod that I use works well with all low power rockets. The tilt/pan feature is not only good for loading but for wind compensation. I've flown a Protostar from it with absolutely no issues.
For bigger rockets I have a Porta Pad E. Don't like that I have to squat down to attach the igniter clips.
For larger stuff I have a 6 ft. 1010 rail and homemade PVC launch pad from plans I found on the web. The rail mast has clamps for an 8 ft. 1/2" aluminum rod I got cheap from Grainger's. There are a few people who still use 1/2" launch lugs, so I have all the bases covered.
Even have a mini power rocket launch pad that I piggy back a Micro Maxx rod on. Fits in a small box.
And Roger, I still have a couple of Makerbeam micro rails I bought from you a while back. Will probably mount it to a PVC mast with micro buttons and mount that to a PVC saw horse or tripod. Been on the back burner for a while. Cheers.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Okay. eBay and the credit card processor will take about 12% of the $5.00 leaving $4.40. The cost of postage will be at least $2.66 leaving $1.74. The envelope and label will cost about $.80 leaving less than $1.00 to cover your labor and the cost of producing the product (acquiring the materials and tools, development, testing, marketing, licenses and taxes, and other overhead).

"Acquiring the tools" . . . Who doesn't own a hand drill ? ( maybe the Snowflake generation doesn't )
"Acquiring the materials" . . . Strolling the aisles and Lowes or Home Depot, while doing other shopping.
"Development" . . . It's a hole that gets bored into an existing item and threaded.
"Testing" . . . We already know that a 1/4-20 thread fits a camera tripod . . . Drill the hole, thread it, screw in the Thumb Screw . . . Voila !
"Marketing" . . . It's eBay and only a few hundred would likely ever be sold.
"Licenses" . . . None required for eBay ( "home-made" item, not a registered business ).
"Overhead" . . . Minimal, since you already live where you're making them.

NOTE : Postage would have to be charged to the Customer at that price point.

Bottom line . . . Make them for yourselves, unless you like being "sheep".

 

[Ez2cDave]

Cost of drill?
Cost of bench vise or drill press?
And I know tripod mounting bolts are standardized, but I wouldn't know WHAT SIZE it is off the top of my head without spending the time to look it up. Wouldn't want to pick up the wrong all thread nut size.
And no matter what you call it, production time still has value. Especially if it could be spent doing something else you would rather be doing. Like family time.
As far as 1000% markup, take the case of a cup of morning joe at your local diner. Let's say you pay X $. Do you really think the cost of materials comes anywhere close to X $? More like pennies to the dollar. You are paying for the VALUE ADDED, as well as the business overhead, labor, and profit. I would be surprised if the markup was LESS than 1000%. Are you saying that no one should visit their local diner for coffee and instead make it at home?
I have enough hand and power tools to take care of 90% of the repairs to my home and auto. The other 10% gets repaired by a professional tradesman. I also have three drills. I DO NOT have a shop table and bench vise. I think it would be safe to say that a fair number of people don't even own a drill. So I'll say it again, $12 and change is a bargain.

It's just a 65-cent, 1/4" all-thread nut with a threaded hole and a 17-cent 10-24 ( or similar ) "spade-style" thumb screw . . .

As for not having a vise, try using a pair of vise-grip pliers.

I like being able to "save a buck", whenever possible, rather than being a "slave to consumerism".

If you lack the confidence or skills to make your own, there are always people willing to take your money !

 

[kuririn]

It's just a 65-cent, 1/4" all-thread nut with a threaded hole and a 17-cent 10-24 ( or similar ) "spade-style" thumb screw . . .

As for not having a vise, try using a pair of vise-grip pliers.

I like being able to "save a buck", whenever possible, rather than being a "slave to consumerism".

If you lack the confidence or skills to make your own, there are always people willing to take your money !

Cost of vise grip pliers?

Prices are funny things. I was happy to pay what I paid, and I picked up a Raise, a CorkScrew, and a couple of nice BT-80 tubes. I was quite happy with the products and the price.

There are somethings I am a do-it-yourself, like building a custom nose cone out of a toilet paper roll (https://www.rocketreviews.com/umm-me-uranus-explorer-2-scratch-by-tom-markel.html)

Other things I am willing to pay the prices to let someone else do it for me. I guess my definition of a Rip-off is where the product you receive is not up to what you expected based on the advertisement. In this case I paid exactly what I was told, and I got exactly what I was told. And I am a happy camper. Could I have done it myself? I guess so, but I prefer tp spend my time on things like the SR-73, the Whopper Flopper Chopper, the Mayday, the Gone Fission, the Gyskelion, and the Uranus Explorer.

Agree with you 100%. True six years ago, true now. Some people just cannot understand this.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Cost of vise grip pliers?

Do you have ANY hand tools ? . . . If not, borrow some from friends or neighbors ( Do you have those ? )

Do you have a suitable camera tripod ?

If so, screw the all-thread nut on the camera mounting stud and drill the hole, using the tripod to hold the nut steady . . . Yes, you will have to part with $7.00 at Lowes to get the Tap/ Drill Bit set.

 

[kuririn]

Do you have ANY hand tools ?

See post #34:

I have enough hand and power tools to take care of 90% of the repairs to my home and auto. The other 10% gets repaired by a professional tradesman. I also have three drills. I DO NOT have a shop table and bench vise. I think it would be safe to say that a fair number of people don't even own a drill. So I'll say it again, $12 and change is a bargain.

Do you have a suitable camera tripod ?

See post#29:

If so, screw the all-thread nut on the camera mounting stud and drill the hole, using the tripod to hold the nut steady . . . Yes, you will have to part with $7.00 at Lowes to get the Tap/ Drill Bit set.

Don't need to, already have the adeptor. In fact, for several years now. Very happy with it.
When I was younger I made the same mistake several times of buying a tool to repair something, then having the tool collect dust at the bottom of my tool box. Probably have a dozen of those. Now that I'm older, and presumably wiser. I don't do that anymore. Doesn't make financial sense. Do the Math.
Also doesn't make financial sense to spend all that time to make one adapter that will last several years. I'd rather spend a few bucks and spend my time building and flying rockets. Penny wise, pound foolish.
BUT, I respect your right to your own opinion. Hope we can agree to disagree. Cheers.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Now, THIS is a Tripod . . .

Cost of materials, less than $75 ( about the cost of 6 - 7 "Adeptors" ).

Cost of tripod ? ZERO to me ( I had "connections" in those days and have TWO of them ) . . . But, for those of you who like to surf the internet.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=3061+tripod&_sacat=0&_sop=15

Manfrotto Bogen 3061 Heavy Duty Pro Video Tripod & 116MK2 Fluid Head

This tripod is built extra sturdy for professional use by filming crews; It has a built in ball leveler for you to level your camera quickly. Bogen/Manfrotto says that these legs can hold approx. 66 lbs making this tripod the sturdiest made by Manfrotto and it weighs approx. 20 lbs with head. When standing with out the legs extend it measures approx 42" and when the legs are fully extended it reaches approx. 70".

The tower was built, by me in 1996, from scratch, using ( gasp ) hand tools and power tools, that I have owned for decades . . . LOL !

The tripods have served as bases for several different launchers, over the years.

 

[BABAR]

Bottom line . . . Make them for yourselves, unless you like being "sheep".

Baaaaaaaaa

Dave, commend you for showing how someone can make it for himself or herself. Not sure why you feel the need to go beyond that and criticize those who choose otherwise.

Odd’l Rockets provides a product which people can choose to buy or not.

Some people are happy to be able to get something “off the shelf” or “over the net” that just works out of the box and they don’t have to mess with it.

For me, some things I like to scratch build, some I don’t. Personally I was really happy with this.

I will just go out and graze now.......

 

[BABAR]

Now, THIS is a Tripod . . .

Cost of materials, less than $75 ( about the cost of 6 - 7 "Adeptors" ).

Cost of tripod ? ZERO to me ( I had "connections" in those days and have TWO of them ) . . . But, for those of you who like to surf the internet.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=3061+tripod&_sacat=0&_sop=15

Manfrotto Bogen 3061 Heavy Duty Pro Video Tripod & 116MK2 Fluid Head

This tripod is built extra sturdy for professional use by filming crews; It has a built in ball leveler for you to level your camera quickly. Bogen/Manfrotto says that these legs can hold approx. 66 lbs making this tripod the sturdiest made by Manfrotto and it weighs approx. 20 lbs with head. When standing with out the legs extend it measures approx 42" and when the legs are fully extended it reaches approx. 70".

The tower was built, by me in 1996, from scratch, using ( gasp ) hand tools and power tools, that I have owned for decades . . . LOL !

The tripods have served as bases for several different launchers, over the years.


View attachment 375976


View attachment 375977


View attachment 375978


View attachment 375979



View attachment 375980


View attachment 375981

That IS a really cool tower!

 

[Ez2cDave]

Dave, commend you for showing how someone can make it for himself or herself. Not sure why you feel the need to go beyond that and criticize those who choose otherwise.

It may have seemed as though I was being critical . . . Rather, my replies were more of a retort to ridiculously anal comments, designed to troll the thread. Everyone will see this situation differently.

At any rate, whether someone spends the extra money to buy a commercially-made product or takes the time and effort to save some money, learn a new skill, and get personal satisfaction from doing it themselves, the choice is theirs . . . Choose wisely !

 

[Buckeye]

Yes, it's 6 years later . . .

So, what was the point of necro-ing yet another thread 6 years later? Did you even read it? I'll fill you in: Your tiresome position, repeated over and over, was already covered in posts #4 and #14. Your pompous, self-righteousness added nothing to the conversation, other than wasted bandwidth.

Rather, my replies were more of a retort to ridiculously anal comments, designed to troll the thread.

At least you identify yourself as a troll. That's a good start.

 

[kuririn]

In closing, I will happily and freely post in whatever thread on this forum I like . . . I neither need, require, nor seek your approval, by any means !

Just for your info, there are rules in this forum of what can and cannot be posted. Since you have chosen to ignore them, your posts have been reported to the moderators for further action. Have a nice day.

 

[Handeman]

Don't forget the tap handle for turning the tap.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-Tap-and-Die-Set/1000234799

Add $17.48 to your cost if you don't have one.

 

[hcmbanjo]

This post is not meant in any disrespect for anyone in this thread. But I feel I should say something.
For those who have used the Adeptor with good results, thank you!

I'm the guy that designed and produces the Odd'l Rocket Adeptors. I also write the modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com blog.
I watch the prices of rocket kits and engines. If I see something I feel is unreasonable, I simply pass up the purchase.
It's always your choice.

I sell kits and accessories to vendors at a wholesale cost.
While I have a suggested retail price, the vendor sets a final price to make a profit.

The amount of time it takes to make an Adeptor is more than you'd think. I am very picky about quality and fit.
To produce this product, investments included a vise, drill press, metal drills, metal taps, tap handle and fine files.
Most kitchen table builders probably wouldn't have these tools at hand.
So far, this doesn't include the price of the Adeptor materials. I didn't buy the parts at Home Depot, they don't carry what I require.
Who knows? I may have missed them in the fastener aisle. I have bought the large washers at Home Depot.

To Ez2cDave, the product you showed from Lowe's is not what I need. It may have a hole in the side,
but it isn't tapped for the thumb screw. That nut may not fit the bolt on a camera tripod.
You'd still need the vise, drills, tap and handle. If you have the tools, time and skills, have at it. But don't forget
where you got the inspiration. I give full credit to that picture from the Enerjet News, January 1973.

I'm fortunate to produce (draw, typeset and print) my own instructions. If I had to pay an outside
graphic artist to draw up instructions the retail price might be a little higher.
Add to that, I usually have to pay postage to get the products to vendors.

There is more to small scale product production than the average hobby consumer realizes.
After you've sold a few thousand kits you understand and look differently at domestically produced, small vendor pricing.

The first time I used the prototype Adeptor for a camera tripod launch it saved my sore knees and enhanced
my rocketry experience. If I was not the producer, I'd buy one myself.

 

[Ez2cDave]

To Ez2cDave, the product you showed from Lowe's is not what I need. It may have a hole in the side,
but it isn't tapped for the thumb screw. That nut may not fit the bolt on a camera tripod.
You'd still need the vise, drills, tap and handle. If you have the tools, time and skills, have at it. But don't forget
where you got the inspiration. I give full credit to that picture from the Enerjet News, January 1973.

Hans,

Let me start by saying that I respect you for the way you conducted yourself in your post. There are others on the forum that could learn much from your candor and sincerity !

The threads on the Lowes product are 1/4-20, identical to the standard threads on camera tripods. The hole is, indeed, not tapped, but that is simple to do. The tap in those sets comes with a drill bit. It is self-aligning and uses a simple square drive. Yes, a "handle" to turn the tap, would be preferable, but not 100% mandatory ( "Vise-Grips" are one possible alternative ). No one mentioned "cutting oil" either, for that matter. I do have all the tools necessary to do this, whereas others may not.

I have no intention of mass-producing these and, if I ever give one that I have made to another rocketeer, I would tell them that I was inspired by the "Adeptor".

In closing, thank you, once again, for reaching out in the civilized and professional manner that you did !

Dave F.

 

[kuririn]

For those who have used the Adeptor with good results, thank you!

No, Chris, thank YOU for offering a great product at a great price! All of us in the model rocket community appreciate the unique products and accessories that Odd'l Rockets offers. Well, most of us anyway.
And I know that you are too humble to bring it up yourself, but CONGRATULATIONS on being selected as a speaker at NARCON 2019. Quite an honor. AND on being selected as a "showpiece" builder for Estes kits. Some may call themselves "Master Modelers" but few are. Obviously Estes made the right choice.
Continued success in your business venture and blog. I follow it religiously, always picking up new building tips. Cheers!