No More BAMA Chutes

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JLP1

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Got an email this evening saying due to unforeseen events BAMA chutes would be immediately and permanently closing. Also got a PayPal refund for a chute I had on order. Web site shows 404 error and I can't see their Facebook anymore. Sorry to see them go they made some really fine chutes. :(
 
This is posted on the Valkyrie site:

After years of bringing innovation and education to the hobby and amateur communities, BAMA Recovery Systems LLC's reputation found its way to the commercial space and aerospace markets. BAMA Recovery Systems LLC quickly grew and was not set up to be competitive in the commercial markets, so Valkyrie Recovery Systems Inc. was formed to focus exclusively on the professional, university, research and commercial markets. This will allow dedicated focus by each company on their respective markets.

Hmmmmmmm hard to say what's going all I know is they sent me my money back I would have rather had the chute.

They did have a holiday sale which they were taking orders for and they did say all holiday orders would be shipped after the first of the year.

Maybe HPR just wasn't a big enough slice of the pie. Then on the other maybe this was all planned and that's why they would not reveal the name of the new owners.

A mystery we may never have an answer for.

RIP BAMA Chutes
 
Total guess based on the email/posting above: after seeing what commercial or large scale outfits would pay for a big chute, they discovered that they could (a) make more money for the same effort, (b) make more money for the same hassle, (c) have less hassle because they have professional clients, or (d) all of the above by focusing on the big boys.
 
So much BAMA drama!

The original founder of BAMA is a parachute genius, and when he started into business, he made parachutes for hobby rocketeers, but he also made much larger chutes for university research projects and commercial ventures. Those are two very different markets, and he was involved in both.

I bought some of his first chutes sold to hobby rocketeers, and they were fantastic, custom designs, made to order. Really first rate chutes, and very good prices. But he is NOT a good business person. It’s not for lack of trying — he just does not have the personality or skills to make a business work well. And it seems like his personal life is a bit rocky too, which affected his ability to run his business.

At some point, he got into a very public social media interpersonal conflict (and maybe a legal dispute) with the owners of another hobby chute company. It was a big deal in the Facebook rocketry groups often referred to as The Parachute Wars. So the hobby chute business turned into a real mess, it became too overwhelming for him to handle, and he basically shut it down maybe 2 years ago, except for occasional side projects for hobbyists.

In the meantime, he continued working on the university and commercial projects. I don’t know much about it, but I believe the Valkyrie business was formed to handle that side of the business, and I sincerely hope the guy I’m talking about is focused on designing and making chutes, which he excels at, and someone else is handling the business side of the business, which he is no good at.

A few months ago there was a big announcement about BAMA chutes reopening. The story I heard was that the original founder I’m talking about had sold the hobby chute business, which was separate from Valkyrie. After the sale, I’m not sure what involvement, if any, the original founder had. People started asking who the new owner was, and it was a huge mystery. The new owner said he wanted to remain anonymous. I think he said he wanted to be known as the mysterious Spruce Wayne, or somesuch. That didn’t sit well with some people who wanted to know who they were dealing with. And then that whole controversy turned into its own social media soap opera. The next thing I heard about BAMA was this unexpected “immediate and permanent” shutdown. I really don’t know if the temporarily reopened BAMA ever shipped a chute. Did anyone get one?

BAMA was like a beautiful, well-crafted rocket. And its flight started gloriously, with a nice, straight boost. But unfortunately, something went unstable, there was an extended period of crazy skywriting, followed by a tremendous cato! And just when you thought it was over, surprise! A second stage ignited! But oh no! It was aiming in a dangerous direction and went on a terrifying cruise missile trajectory, followed by a deployment failure, and a now wicked lawn dart!
 
So much BAMA drama!

The original founder of BAMA is a parachute genius, and when he started into business, he made parachutes for hobby rocketeers, but he also made much larger chutes for university research projects and commercial ventures. Those are two very different markets, and he was involved in both.

I bought some of his first chutes sold to hobby rocketeers, and they were fantastic, custom designs, made to order. Really first rate chutes, and very good prices. But he is NOT a good business person. It’s not for lack of trying — he just does not have the personality or skills to make a business work well. And it seems like his personal life is a bit rocky too, which affected his ability to run his business.

At some point, he got into a very public social media interpersonal conflict (and maybe a legal dispute) with the owners of another hobby chute company. It was a big deal in the Facebook rocketry groups often referred to as The Parachute Wars. So the hobby chute business turned into a real mess, it became too overwhelming for him to handle, and he basically shut it down maybe 2 years ago, except for occasional side projects for hobbyists.

In the meantime, he continued working on the university and commercial projects. I don’t know much about it, but I believe the Valkyrie business was formed to handle that side of the business, and I sincerely hope the guy I’m talking about is focused on designing and making chutes, which he excels at, and someone else is handling the business side of the business, which he is no good at.

A few months ago there was a big announcement about BAMA chutes reopening. The story I heard was that the original founder I’m talking about had sold the hobby chute business, which was separate from Valkyrie. After the sale, I’m not sure what involvement, if any, the original founder had. People started asking who the new owner was, and it was a huge mystery. The new owner said he wanted to remain anonymous. I think he said he wanted to be known as the mysterious Spruce Wayne, or somesuch. That didn’t sit well with some people who wanted to know who they were dealing with. And then that whole controversy turned into its own social media soap opera. The next thing I heard about BAMA was this unexpected “immediate and permanent” shutdown. I really don’t know if the temporarily reopened BAMA ever shipped a chute. Did anyone get one?

BAMA was like a beautiful, well-crafted rocket. And its flight started gloriously, with a nice, straight boost. But unfortunately, something went unstable, there was an extended period of crazy skywriting, followed by a tremendous cato! And just when you thought it was over, surprise! A second stage ignited! But oh no! It was aiming in a dangerous direction and went on a terrifying cruise missile trajectory, followed by a deployment failure, and a now wicked lawn dart!
I remember a small portion of the Parachute Wars drama, but your telling of the rest Thirsty is masterful and humorous!
 
Where can one learn more about the Parachute Wars?
Until Mark Canepa writes about it in his next book, you’ll have to search old posts on the FB rocketry groups. It mostly took place there. You may find some old posts on here from BAMA as well that could help in your research. I think he posted a couple times in the forum.

Thirsty’s description is dead on. BAMA made absolutely gorgeous and amazing parachutes. He introduced designs not usually seen in hobby rocketry. And I think he had a genuine cause against the other company. But he did not handle it well.
 
Ben, the original owner of BAMA is one of the best people I’ve ever dealt with. I ordered all my chutes from him and I was sad when he had someone else take over the hobby side but he did better with commercial stuff like the Electron rocket and I believe he also did the Mars Lander chutes. The new owners did this to themselves though 100% because they didn’t want to introduce themselves to everyone and keep it going so BAMA closing is all on them.
 
Until Mark Canepa writes about it in his next book, you’ll have to search old posts on the FB rocketry groups. It mostly took place there. You may find some old posts on here from BAMA as well that could help in your research. I think he posted a couple times in the forum.

Thirsty’s description is dead on. BAMA made absolutely gorgeous and amazing parachutes. He introduced designs not usually seen in hobby rocketry. And I think he had a genuine cause against the other company. But he did not handle it well.

That’s right, it mostly played out on Facebook in the rocketry groups.

Basically, it amounted to BAMA and another vendor making accusations against each other in the Facebook groups. Mostly it had to do with claims about stolen parachute designs and violations of business agreements between the two vendors. It was very public, with things like posting screenshots of text conversations and emails to prove the accusations. Quickly it escalated from the two vendors arguing, and individual rocketeers started taking sides in the arguments. People got banned from various groups for bad behavior, and then others would step in as surrogates to argue on behalf of their “side”. It was really ridiculous.

The unfortunate lasting legacies of the Parachute Wars include the strict rules relating to vendor posts in the Tripoli and NAR Facebook groups. I’m sure there were other reasons for restricting vendor posts, but part of it had to do with these two vendors and their surrogates having a nasty public spat in the groups.
 
The unfortunate lasting legacies of the Parachute Wars include the strict rules relating to vendor posts in the Tripoli and NAR Facebook groups. I’m sure there were other reasons for restricting vendor posts, but part of it had to do with these two vendors and their surrogates having a nasty public spat in the groups.

Oh yeah. The rocketry version of the Geneva Conventions. And then everyone bitched about the new rules and tried to form breakaway rocket groups 🤣. For all the talk about how nice rocketry people are, it turns out we’re a bunch of schmucks on par with the rest of humanity. No statistical significant difference.
 
Oh yeah. The rocketry version of the Geneva Conventions. And then everyone bitched about the new rules and tried to form breakaway rocket groups 🤣. For all the talk about how nice rocketry people are, it turns out we’re a bunch of schmucks on par with the rest of humanity. No statistical significant difference.

Absolutely! Rocketeers are some of the nicest people I’ve met in person who are also the biggest jerks on Facebook.
 
I'm not on Facebook, so missed out on the parachute wars. However, seems like the nexus of failure is picking a non rocketry related pseudonym like Spruce Wayne. Careful thought around this could have caused a better outcome. For instance, something like Dirk Draggler might have reamed the hole in the amateur market that BAMA chutes was trying to fill. Food for thought.
 
Oh well vendors come and they leave no big deal. I have seen this many times over the last 30 years.
 
The real takeaway here is: if there's a vendor offering something you haven't seen in a while ( or ever ), buy that thing right now!

( don't tell the missus I said that )
 
To be fair, he did steal designs from 3 confirmed people.
As we say in the office, "All the best designs are stolen." That said, there's a big difference between the kind of stealing we're talking about (I saw this design in a picture/in person and it looked pretty cool; I could make something like that) and true stealing (Companies X and Y asked me to make some chutes when they were overflowing with work, now I'm offering those exact same designs for sale myself). If it's the former, I'm not too excited about it unless the companies patented their designs. If it's the latter, that's a different story and not cool.

Either way, it doesn't matter much now that Bama is out of the hobby business.
 
That’s right, it mostly played out on Facebook in the rocketry groups.

Basically, it amounted to BAMA and another vendor making accusations against each other in the Facebook groups. Mostly it had to do with claims about stolen parachute designs and violations of business agreements between the two vendors. It was very public, with things like posting screenshots of text conversations and emails to prove the accusations. Quickly it escalated from the two vendors arguing, and individual rocketeers started taking sides in the arguments. People got banned from various groups for bad behavior, and then others would step in as surrogates to argue on behalf of their “side”. It was really ridiculous.

The unfortunate lasting legacies of the Parachute Wars include the strict rules relating to vendor posts in the Tripoli and NAR Facebook groups. I’m sure there were other reasons for restricting vendor posts, but part of it had to do with these two vendors and their surrogates having a nasty public spat in the groups.
Nope, that was it.
The Tripoli Facebook group loosened its rules afterwards and vendors have been very good.
 
As we say in the office, "All the best designs are stolen." That said, there's a big difference between the kind of stealing we're talking about (I saw this design in a picture/in person and it looked pretty cool; I could make something like that) and true stealing (Companies X and Y asked me to make some chutes when they were overflowing with work, now I'm offering those exact same designs for sale myself). If it's the former, I'm not too excited about it unless the companies patented their designs. If it's the latter, that's a different story and not cool.

Either way, it doesn't matter much now that Bama is out of the hobby business.
My understanding is that it was the worst form of #2, a direct copy based on the very same patterns, possibly from de-constructed examples.

But the copier only had 2 examples and scaled up linear, whereas the originator scaled them across the size offerings in a slightly exponential curve because that's what the source math directed.(Which accounts for the originator's drum beat of 'If they're original, get him to explain the math!'

It's that "scaling factor" difference that the imitator initially offered up as proof that the designs were not direct copies, even though the piece comparisons between the initial same sizes showed that they were EXACT copies.
 
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That’s right, it mostly played out on Facebook in the rocketry groups.

Basically, it amounted to BAMA and another vendor making accusations against each other in the Facebook groups. Mostly it had to do with claims about stolen parachute designs and violations of business agreements between the two vendors. It was very public, with things like posting screenshots of text conversations and emails to prove the accusations. Quickly it escalated from the two vendors arguing, and individual rocketeers started taking sides in the arguments. People got banned from various groups for bad behavior, and then others would step in as surrogates to argue on behalf of their “side”. It was really ridiculous.

The unfortunate lasting legacies of the Parachute Wars include the strict rules relating to vendor posts in the Tripoli and NAR Facebook groups. I’m sure there were other reasons for restricting vendor posts, but part of it had to do with these two vendors and their surrogates having a nasty public spat in the groups.

Rocketman
 
Rocketman
Please don’t bring this up, it’s in the past and has nothing to do with Bama closing. I prefer to stay neutral, as everything claimed that was “copied” were chutes designed by the military long before we were both alive (combined). If we want to argue about copying, look at cars now days, they all look the same on the outside, it doesn’t mean they are on the inside. Some have better quality, better stitching and higher quality materials. We could talk about Wildman copying Skyangle, Fruity Chutes copying Rocket Rage, Dino Chutes copying Top Flight and Paramedic Chutes copying Sperachutes. But at the end of the day, this is a small hobby market, let’s all be friends and get along. We all provide excellent products and we’re all just trying to support our family’s. My goal is to have every type of parachute ever designed, at the best prices, best quality, and have every color available, as the one stop shop in high quality recovery products, and recovery systems from 9” to 60ft+.
 
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