My First Big Daddy! - My First Lawn Dart!

[ttbit]

Embarrassing... I actually was on another thread entitled "Big Daddy - Stuffer tube or no?". I must be getting old.

 

[ttbit]

OK. I have new data to give. I decided to launch with the stuffer tube. The chute deployed, however, it was melted in quite a few places. I did use a few squares of wadding in the stuffer tube also. Neat thing is, you can get the wadding back out of the nose and re-use. Anyway, obviously, a plastic chute is not the way to go here, or I need to wrap the chute in wadding. I guess I should have not tried a second time though. Chute did not deploy. It was really stuck in there! Maybe my repair had sticky tape exposed, or some more melting occurred. Not sure what happened, but, because the nose cone released and it did not lawn dart. It bounced off the ground and survived. The cone is pretty tight now, so something got tweaked in that last landing. I should have done the chute repairs back at the house.

So... The stuffer tube may complicate things a little (learning curve on packing with this config) and did not completely protect the chute, in my case. The good thing is, the cone released.



https://thediskwiz.com/bigdaddyfull.mp4
https://thediskwiz.com/bdaddylaunchslowmo.mp4

 

[ttbit]

Estes did take care of me. Impressive. Wish I could say the same for USPS, as the box and contents were crushed.

 

[MikeyDSlagle]

Well I am glad I saw this thread. My girlfriend got me a Big Daddy for Christmas and it was the first rocket I actually took my time to do a nice finish. Would hate to have the thing lawn dart on its maiden flight. I will for sure mod mine to prevent that from happening.

Sorry for your misfortunes on the launch pad. Good Luck.

Mike

 

[Mushtang]

OK. I have new data to give. I decided to launch with the stuffer tube. The chute deployed, however, it was melted in quite a few places. I did use a few squares of wadding in the stuffer tube also.

How did the parachute get melted? You didn't have it IN the stuffer tube did you?

 

[ttbit]

How did the parachute get melted? You didn't have it IN the stuffer tube did you?

hahaha.. NO. I had a couple of squares in the stuffer tube and the 'chute on the outside. It is a bit of a mystery. I figured this would work better than some of the baffles I have been reading about.

Estes emailed me back to say they are sending me another one from the USPS damage. Wow. They really do have good customer service. I guess my son and I will have to stop at the Hobby store and get a couple more kits to help support them.

I am not sure if they are sending me a whole kit or just a tube, but I might have some Big Daddy's to modify and play with. Maybe a piston drive? The nose cone will be modified to get rid of the odd angle on at least one of them!

 

[Cosermann]

Does your stuffer tube extend to the top of the body tube (and is actually inside the NC when it's in place)?

 

[ttbit]

Does your stuffer tube extend to the top of the body tube (and is actually inside the NC when it's in place)?

Yes. Post #26 shows it some, although it is hard to see from that perspective.

 

[USAFmissileer]

I'm now encouraged to get my original BD repaired. Had a D12-3 CATO on me. Miraculously, the bird suffered only minor damage. One benefit was that stupid engine hook came out.

Story behind the CATO...so my uncle, who passed away in 2003, got me started in LPR in 1971 at Christmas. Launched his Big Bertha and a Midget (remember those...) on Christmas Eve and then gave me a launcher, Big Bertha and Alpha the next day. How he got those on Christmas Eve, I will never know... This 8 year old was hooked....

Anyway, after he died, my aunt sent me a box of his rocket stuff. Inside was an unfinished 13 mm Bomarc, some fins, and one D12-3. I just so happened to have just completed a Big Daddy itching for a maiden flight. So I go to our soccer fields in Omaha where we lived at the time and launched tons of 13mm and 18 mm birds. Final launch was the BD. That was in 2005.

Well was supposed to be the final launch. It moved about four inches and then it CATO'd. Nozzle blew out along with ejection charge going off. Kinda hilarious in a way.... So I look at the engine. Manufacture date of April 1971.....no wonder! Moral of the story? There isn't one other than check your dates on your engines. (Sitting in an airport so not sure they have them anymore).

Anyway, I'm inspired to launch her again with mods found in this thread. And thought the story would amuse you too LOL. I laughed as I was typing it.

Mike


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

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[ttbit]

Good story, Mike. I have some c6-5's that are bloated and have been around for over 20 years. Guess I should just soak them instead of trying them out...

Every time I look at my Der Big Red Max, I think of my uncle who passed away some time ago. He had a really nice one and was his first rocket. It was the first time my cousin, uncle, dad and I had a launch together. You could only get one with the launch kit at the time so I was out of luck. My local hobby store told me I could just get the longer tube and customize. It opened my eyes. I still have it sitting behind me and I flew it some weeks ago.

Be sure to post back when you launch the BD!!

 

[USAFmissileer]

I will indeed ttbit. It is going up, if all goes according to plan, at my wife's family reunion next weekend. Her cousin saw my rockets a couple weeks ago and got me inspired to start up again. The BD is my crescendo shot for the day. I will be sure to post something, good, bad, or just plain humorous!


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

 

[USAFmissileer]

Now I am also wishing I knew about leaving out thrust rings back when I built it several moons ago. I only discovered that last week when I joined this site! I'd shove an E up the aft end and let her rip!


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

 

[USAFmissileer]

Well I launched the BD this afternoon. Awesome flight on a D12-5. And......wait for it. It lawn darted. Nose cine completely jammed to the point that I can't remove it. I will open her up tonight to see if the charge went off.

I have some pics I will post. The little kids loved the flights!

I think I will contact Estes about this.

Anyway, at least it flew!

Mike


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

 

[SCrocketfan]

Mine CATO'd on it's first flight too (see attached pic) I put a piece of tape over the vent hole in the bottom of the nose cone to see if that would help ensure deployment, but didn't get a chance to try it because of the explosion.

 

[USAFmissileer]

Okay, here are pics of the last flight of my BD



Getting ready to load it up



Engine (D12-5) prepped....did not need the tape so removed it



Loaded and ready. Note bar in the background....needing a drink now after today's launch!



I did not take a launch picture. Others did however, but I don't have them. After launch she augered in as you see it. I was thankful that no one was near it when she came in with the huge thud. The kids were excited when that occurred.





Nose cone is shoved in from impact. There was no visible signs of ejection but I haven't taken her apart yet



Damage near lug area



Other side of body tube

I'm sad but gratified that she had a nice 300 foot or so flight on her last voyage!

Mike




Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

 

[USAFmissileer]

So I just did the autopsy on my BD. The ejection charge went off. I had seven or eight sheets of wadding inside. Some was charred. I have to say I do like that smell .
Plastic laundry had some melting. No damage to the shock cord, which is found surprising.

All this leads me to some observations which may or may not gave be en made before:

1. Tube length and diameter may be affecting ejection charge potency.
2. Nose cone shoulder is too large.
3. This rocket is built like a beast!

I plan on getting another one. I will send a report to Estes to report the issue of the lawn dart. However, dId I do anything wrong to prevent ejection?


More pics



Nose cone dusting. Was clean prior to launch



Parachute damage



Wadding and charred wadding



More chute damage

Obviously I did not use enough wadding. I plan on switching over to Nomex I do believe (not just for this rocket either)

Any thoughts guys?

Mike


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

 

[Rex R]

one thing that can cause problems is getting the tail end of the shock cord jammed between the nose and the body tube.
Rex

 

[USAFmissileer]

Ah didn't think of that. I usually trim them on my recent builds. I didn't think to do that on this one. Thanks Rex


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

 

[Rex R]

nomex is good. as you may have noticed, space for recovery items is limited and it has a 3" diameter tube...all ingredients for singing chutes. don't know how mine would fare on bp motors, I have only flown mine on composites (E18-4s and once on an F39(weee!)). would suggest a 'thin mil 18" chute' from top flight recovery, llc.
Rex

 

[ttbit]

Wow. Sorry for your loss. OK. So, mine did the exact same thing and I can tell you that my shock cord was not jammed and everything was loose. I am going to cut the nose on my next one (Estes Warranty) so that it is shaped like most Estes cones. I have a Nomex protector that I did not use, due to weight. I will now use it and cutting that cone will give extra room in there. I will paper the fins again and not install a hook, but instead plan on more than BP loads.

This thing IS A BEAST. I was saying that myself just the other day.

I am thinking about buying the Aerotech 24mm kit: https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/aro/aro91241.htm

I think your rocket won the depth contest. The damage to my nose cone paint is just slightly more than 2 1/2". Please measure yours. I realize ground softness plays a roll, but maybe you will feel better if you know yours went further.

BTW, my son got more excited about the lawn dart and wanted to see it again! Geeez...

edit: Oh and look at where the black is on the cone from the discharge. That might tell you how far the nose came out before the crash. That excessive burning must be from it just being trapped in the tube for so long as mine was pretty bad as well. Wadding does not seem the way to go.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

nomex is good. as you may have noticed, space for recovery items is limited and it has a 3" diameter tube...all ingredients for singing chutes. don't know how mine would fare on bp motors, I have only flown mine on composites (E18-4s and once on an F39(weee!)). would suggest a 'thin mil 18" chute' from top flight recovery, llc.
Rex

I agree on the thin mill chute, and I'd suggest a 9x9 nomex, not 12x12. I bought a regular 18" nylon chute and 12x12 nomes blanket, and it was to big of a "burrito" to fit in the tight space. Mine got jammed and failed to deploy. The nomex actually got burnt and so did the chute. Thin mill and smaller blanket should work.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Wow. Sorry for your loss. OK. So, mine did the exact same thing and I can tell you that my shock cord was not jammed and everything was loose. I am going to cut the nose on my next one (Estes Warranty) so that it is shaped like most Estes cones. I have a Nomex protector that I did not use, due to weight. I will now use it and cutting that cone will give extra room in there. I will paper the fins again and not install a hook, but instead plan on more than BP loads.

This thing IS A BEAST. I was saying that myself just the other day.

I am thinking about buying the Aerotech 24mm kit: https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/aro/aro91241.htm

I think your rocket won the depth contest. The damage to my nose cone paint is just slightly more than 2 1/2". Please measure yours. I realize ground softness plays a roll, but maybe you will feel better if you know yours went further.

BTW, my son got more excited about the lawn dart and wanted to see it again! Geeez...

edit: Oh and look at where the black is on the cone from the discharge. That might tell you how far the nose came out before the crash. That excessive burning must be from it just being trapped in the tube for so long as mine was pretty bad as well. Wadding does not seem the way to go.

If I were going to modify this rocket, I'd cut straight across the shoulder to remove the entire angled section, leaving just about 2" of shoulder and an open bottom. Then I'd glue a screw eye or a kevlar loop for attaching the parachute and maybe some extra nose weight inside the tip of the NC. That would allow room inside the NC for packing the chute and other recovery gear and plenty of room for wadding or dog barf in the short BT.

 

[ttbit]

If I were going to modify this rocket, I'd cut straight across the shoulder to remove the entire angled section, leaving just about 2" of shoulder and an open bottom. Then I'd glue a screw eye or a kevlar loop for attaching the parachute and maybe some extra nose weight inside the tip of the NC. That would allow room inside the NC for packing the chute and other recovery gear and plenty of room for wadding or dog barf in the short BT.

Yes. That is what I am planning. I figured I would use a kevlar loop coming from the motor mount, although I think the kevlar I picked up is too small. The Nomex I have is a 9x9. I have yet to figure out how to pack all that so the chute comes out OK. I think I will test with the BD that was damaged in shipping first, before I go all out on painting the nice one this time.

When I tested the 9x9 on my original BD, it fit, but it wanted to push the nose cone up a bit (cone was pretty loose). With that shoulder gone, there should be enough room for everything.

 

[USAFmissileer]

Thanks guys for all the advice. It buried just shy of 3" ttbit. I was really worried it would something or someone. Never had a lawn dart before. Short ejections near the ground but never a lawn dart.

I did twist the cone prior to launch so I know it was loose enough.

Question, should I contact Estes on this? It was the second flight (first one was the CATO and I didn't know to report that)




Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

 

[ttbit]

Thanks guys for all the advice. It buried just shy of 3" ttbit. I was really worried it would something or someone. Never had a lawn dart before. Short ejections near the ground but never a lawn dart.

I did twist the cone prior to launch so I know it was loose enough.

Question, should I contact Estes on this? It was the second flight (first one was the CATO and I didn't know to report that)




Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

Well...you win then.

I think it would be worth mentioning it to Estes. My engines and model were only a month or so old when I launched with failure, so they covered me, but it is probably a good thing that they know of all these failures. It was my first ever lawn dart (that I remember) also.

 

[Lowpuller]

I agree with Rex, I think you may have trapped the tail end of the shock cord between the nose cone and body. It even looks nice and crisp white in your first autopsy picture.


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[ttbit]

I agree with Rex, I think you may have trapped the tail end of the shock cord between the nose cone and body. It even looks nice and crisp white in your first autopsy picture.


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Maybe I am seeing something wrong, but it looks charred as heck on my monitor. ?? The tail goes to the left. You raise a good point. If it is charred, we KNOW that is not the problem. If it is clean, then it is a possibility.

 

[USAFmissileer]

Hers a better shot of the cord tail. It is blackened. Not a lot but it is still blackened.


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

 

[USAFmissileer]

Christine from Estes already replied to my email and asked for pics of the rocket and engine. I like how fast they respond! I didn't even ask for anything, I merely wanted them to know of my issues.

Mike


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

 

[AlfaBrewer]

After a less than optimal ejection, I replaced the stock chute with a thin mill nylon one, and added a 9" nomex pad. I also fly it almost exclusively on AT 24/40 reloads. I have flown it a couple more times on D12s, and have had a couple more sub optimal ejections.

I have another short 3" rocket that doesn't always get the laundry out when using BP motors.