Model Rocket Range, "Launch Fee's"

[Micromeister]

Our club is looking for insight on what other groups are doing around the country, concerning club sport launch particapation launch fees.

We have a pending dilemma approaching. As our club is now putting out about 100.00 a month to host our open Sport Launches. We are looking for an approprate way to spread this expense out between all those who fly with us.
Some have suggested it be buried in club dues, others have mentioned a user fee collected from each flyer?

As we launch with permission from a public park, we also allow anyone, member or not to fly with us from our equipment.
We're not sure if an "on site" fee collection is allowed. nor are we really looking to make money out of this fee.. just cover the storage and use fees?
I know most HPR launches require a user fee, but I haven't seen this much at Model rocket ranges, unless used to pay for trophies and such as a contestant fee.
Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[WShoreRockets]

What about an "equipment rental" fee? They pay a fee to use the pads and controllers.



Bob

 

[11bravo]

I'm wondering, what's the $100?
Is it a fee to use the park or what?
Is this up in Middletown?

 

[dasein668]

CMASS charges $5/per day or $20 for a season pass. That's separate from the $8/year annual dues. That way a non-member can come down and just pay to fly for the day.

CMASS does have HPR launches as well, at least at their Amesbury site. But the bulk of flights are LPR/MPR.

 

[Micromeister]

Originally posted by 11Bravo
I'm wondering, what's the $100?
Is it a fee to use the park or what?
Is this up in Middletown?

We're not at Middletown anymore, We've moved to Old National Pike Park, in Mount Airy. Md. about 8 miles East of Frederick, Md.
No it's not a park fee at this time; its a combination of equipment Storage fees. But it's something the club will have to pay pretty much monthly from now on
It may also come to pass at some future date that a "Park User Fee" or some sort of land rental fee may be in the winds as well? Currently its not quite a hundred buck but close, just used that number are easy figuring.

 

[shreadvector]

Here is what we do and your situation may be different:

Our public park launches are officially cosponsored by the agencies whose logos appear on our Calendar of Events. By doing this, we do not have to pay the use fees that "for profit" entities would pay to use a section of the public park for an event. We are required to allow anyone to launch as long as their rockets pass safety inspection (which includes a check of motors and appropriate power level).

The park charges a vehicle fee to drive in - $7 or $8 depending on season.

We charge zero. We put a "donation can" on the check in table and some folks voluntarily donate with no prompting. We try to use the PA System at least once per launch to say "Thank you to everyone who put something into the donation can", but we often forget to make any sort of announcement.

Our club charges zero dues.

We get all our income from running rocket building classes for scouts and other youth groups and our monthly class at an area library meeting room. We charge $10 per student and use rockets that range from Estes Generic E2X to Quest Starhawk and Viper to models that I designed.

back to the donation can. I notice that when we have a group of scouts that has an especially good time at a launch or a group that has had "problems" that we were able to help with (like a group that bought and built rockets on their own and used the incorrect glue and had them fall apart in their hands while in the check-in line), that we get a much larger donation put into the can from their leader or some of their parents - often accompanied by an enthusiastic "THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HELP".

Our biggest club expenses are:
* Printing and mailing - usually once a year since most folks use the Web.
* Occaisonal equipment repairs.
* a medium/large donation every year to the park support foundation.

 

[BobH48]

Originally posted by dasein668
CMASS charges $5/per day or $20 for a season pass. That's separate from the $8/year annual dues. That way a non-member can come down and just pay to fly for the day.

CMASS does have HPR launches as well, at least at their Amesbury site. But the bulk of flights are LPR/MPR.

The launch fees are used to pay for the cost of using the field.

The fee covers an adult flyer, and any number of kids can fly on the single adult pass.

 

[WillCarney]

The fees vary from club to club.

One of my clubs has a 10.00 member fee and no launch fees.
Another club has a member fee and 5.00 per day launch fee.
Still another club has 10.00 for H and above and 5.00 for under
with no membership fee.

All my clubs allow kids or anyone to fly free if flying Estes motors.

Because of the expense of launch equipment and everything I
think a 5 or 10 dollar fee for launching above G motors is fine.


William

 

[GlennW]

Our club (GSSS) has a $10 annual member fee and that's it. We fly at a public park that we have had a relationship with for years, and our launches are open and free to anyone, member or not. We do not fly high power as we are limited to 1 pound of weight and F motors as the highest power.

Glenn

 

[DaveCombs]

The club I belong to (QUARK, out of Cincinnati, NAR Section 624) charges non-members $1 per person to use the equipment. Member dues are $5 annually. They also do "kids fly free" up to a certain age.

I don't know if VOA Park charges the club anything or what their "arrangement" with the park is.

That said, after seeing some of the posts on here, I don't think they carry the same volume as a CMASS or other clubs.

 

[jadebox]

All of the club launches I've attended have collected launch fees - always reasonable amounts from $1 to $5.

Generally, club members pay a little less than non-members.

-- Roger

 

[als57]

We typically let kids (under 18) fly BP motors for free. A fee is collected for adults and HPR flyers. This helps pay for the porta-jon and make a donation to the land owner.


Al

 

[mwiggins367]

My club, SEARS 572, charges a $10 range fee each month for flyers that are 18 years and older.

This fee is used to cover the cost of a Port-o-potty ($100/month) and upkeep of the equipment.

We also charge a $5 fee for anyone who used the hybrid equipment (to pay for the bottle and gas).

Some months we come out a little ahead and some months we just break even.

The $10 range fee is not much and pretty well accepted. We do have a few non-regulars that complain about it. I guess they just figure that the equipment pays for itself. They are also the ones that never help setup or break down the equipment, but that is another story.

 

[reduc]

Our club charges 10$ (cdn) per launch. There is no club fees.

 

[quickburst]

Tripoly Houston #002

We have to pay $100.00 rent on our launch site. The rental fee covers both Saturday and Sunday.

After comming up short time and time again we have settled on a $10.00 launch fee. This seems to be working out for us. If a flyer is flying only one of the two available days the $10.00 fee still applies.

The actual schedule:
Under 18 fly free up to H power.

18 and older $10.00, any power level.

We give a break to flyers under 18.

 

[RoyGreen]

Ah! A timely thread!

SoAR is having a meeting this Sunday to discuss this very subject.

We currently charge a $10/year member fee with no launch fees.

Our expenses are rising after a period of dormancy.

1. We're paying for the mowing of one launch site (about $400/mow, two to three times per year).

2. We're replacing and upgrading equipment, both low and high power.

3. We're printing tri-fold fliers, and other materials.

4. We're paying an honorarium for access to a field for high power (though this may be collected at the site from those that use it).


The most likely outcome is that we charge a launch fee to both members/non-members with members being something nominal like $1-2, and non-members being $5. "Season passes" of $15 or 20 could be obtained, or fees would be comped in exchange for range duty.

 

[bobkrech]

Originally posted by dasein668
CMASS charges $5/per day or $20 for a season pass. That's separate from the $8/year annual dues. That way a non-member can come down and just pay to fly for the day.

CMASS does have HPR launches as well, at least at their Amesbury site. But the bulk of flights are LPR/MPR.

Originally posted by BobH48
The launch fees are used to pay for the cost of using the field.

The fee covers an adult flyer, and any number of kids can fly on the single adult pass.

Charging a launch fee was the most difficult decision that CMASS had to make in the 7 years I've been involved in the club.

For the first 20 years, anyone could fly for free with CMASS whether they were a member or not. CMASS dues have never been raised from the clubs inception: $8 a year for adults, and $4 a year for children. The dues paid for the club news letter printing and postage, NAR dues and insurance, website maintainence and other administrative expenses. With a membership ~140, our dues bring in ~$1000 per year.

We funded our other operating expenses such as launch equipment and maintainence, trailer purchase, registration, insurance and maintainence, etc. by selling hot dogs, soda, and snacks at the launches. We net an estimated ~$900 per year from these sales. All our launches are conducted in public parks, and the no launch fee concept worked well until the towns started charging a field rental fee when they needed new revenue sources.

We typically schedule 14 launches a year: 7 HPR/LMR/MR and 2 TARC only launches at our 360 acre field in Amesbury, and 5 LMR/MR launches at smaller fields in Tewksbury and Acton. We have to pay $200 for an 8 hr club launch, and $100 for a 4 hour TARC launch to Amesbury and $120 per launch to the other towns. That's a grand total of $2200 per year which doubled our annual expenses to ~$4,000.

We used our reserves to fund the launches in first year when rental fees were charged, but realised that a new revenue stream would be necessary. We want to keep the dues low and decided that we did not want to discourage children from participating in our launches, so we developed a fee schedule that raises the necessary funds.

Members can buy seasons pass for $20, or they can fly a la carte on a day pass for $5 per launch. Members children and non-adult guests of members can fly under the members pass. Non-member adults can fly for $5 day pass, and their children fly for free. The club pays the rental costs associated with TARC.

Launch fees are something we didn't want to do, but it's fair and has worked well so far.

Bob
CMASS Senior Advisor

 

[DaveCombs]

Bob: Just curious, when you started selling food at the venue, did the park ownership give you any problems about it, or did they make you seek any kind of "vendor" licensing/health department certificate, like that which would be required by a real food vendor?

 

[shreadvector]

Another important note: Aside from the fact that our park launches are co-sponsored with the government agencies, a very strong reason for not charging fees for our launches is to avoid encouraging folks to launch illegally.

In California you need both the permission of the property owner and a permit from the fire authority to launch Model Rockets. If we charged fees on top of the Park's vehicle fee on top of the cost of gasoline to drive to a launch it would drive some folks to launch illegally. Not a good idea in densly populated and dry brush covered California.

For those who just don't want to or cannot come to a club launch, we provide all the info needed to attempt to obtain a legal launch site on their own. Few have succeeded. That NAR section insurance with landowner/site certificates is EXTREMELY important.

https://home.earthlink.net/~mebowitz/

 

[dasein668]

Originally posted by bobkrech
Charging a launch fee was the most difficult decision that CMASS had to make in the 7 years I've been involved in the club.

Bob, thanks for that detailed discussion.

Frankly, given all the other costs associated with this hobby, paying 5 bucks a day/20/year to fly with a well organized group that takes care of all the red tape etc etc is a no-brainer to me. I think most flyers understand that there are costs associated, and don't really mind the small fee, given what it buys!

 

[troj]

We have annual dues ($24/yr, $36/yr family) and charge $5/day for HPR launches.

Our biggest expenses are room rental for monthly meetings, land use, and a portapotty for the HPR site. We have free use of the land we hold our HPR launches from, but opted to buy 2 acres out of a set-aside program, to allow us to mow it more than twice a year, as well as put down gravel on the "driveway" by the road.

-Kevin

 

[Pat Butler]

Our club is talking about charging launch fees too. Our yearly membership dues are $6/youth (<18), $8 per adult, and $12 for a family membership.

There never seems to be enough money left over when we need new equipment. Unfortunately, we launch at a Forest Preserve location that is out of site from the main road. We have someone at the main gate because the site is reserved for our club that day, but it's rare that someone would just drive buy and want to see what's going on. So we don't get any recruitment benefits from our launches.

Worse yet, the Park District does not allow money to change hands on the day of our launches. So it's not easy to charge a fee anyway unless we do it beforehand.

We've thought about a $2 launch fee for non-members, especially from the various scout clubs who use our equipment and never seem to show their thanks.

 

[shockwaveriderz]

Bluesrocks has a yearly $15 membership fee, and a $5 launch fee for adults, members or not ; kidz to 17 always fly free, as do first timer adults. You are ONLY required to be a NAR/TRA member if you wish to participate in HPR. You are NOT required to be a member of Bluesrocks itself, unless you want to do HPR.

SO a typical member pays $15 + 12x5 = $60 = $15 + 60 = $75 per member per year. This assumes of course that you fly at all 12 yearly meets.

hth

terry dean
nar 16158

 

[bobkrech]

Originally posted by DaveCombs
Bob: Just curious, when you started selling food at the venue, did the park ownership give you any problems about it, or did they make you seek any kind of "vendor" licensing/health department certificate, like that which would be required by a real food vendor?

No problems but since we launch in 3 towns, we need 3 food vendor licenses. Each town requires an annual inspection of our equipment and each town charges $50 for their license. (Our trailer is required to have a sink with running water so you can wash your hands.)

Our launches are well attended. On a good summer day we launch between 400-500 rockets and even on a slow day we almost always launch 200 rockets. Everyone has to eat, and we make it easy and cheap. We sell hot dogs for $1.25, soda and water for $0.75 and chips and other snacks for $0.50. Hot dogs cost ~$0.50 with condiments and napkins, soda costs $0.25 per can and the snacks cost $0.25, and I'm guessing we spend between $5-$10 per launch for ice.

We sell two dogs and a soda for $3.25 and a dog, a soda and a snack for $2.50. That's not a bad deal so we probably average $150 per launch in food sales which is ~$1800 in revenue a year for the club. The food costs ~$720 (40% of sales) and our other expenses are the licenses fees of $150, the propane cost of ~$30 and the ice cost ~$120 per year. (The sales numbers are an estimate only, I'm not the treasurer.) So I guessing we clear ~$900 (50% of gross) per year from food sales. It's a painless way to cover clubs equipment costs which is basically our launch equipment maintainence and improvements, and the club's trailer depreciation, registration, insurance and maintainence without have to raise the dues.

Bob

 

[jimn]

LUNAR charges $5 a day for non members, $15 for annual membership. They also have a per flight charge, 25 cents for low power, 50 cents for mid power and one dollar for high power. I think this is a great idea because it collects money for actual use. They also have raffels and auctions.

Jim

 

[terryg]

$3 a day for members, $5 for non members. Paid on an honor system, with a check off box on the flight card to indicate fee has been paid. Put the funds in the cash box yourself and get change if needed (rocket folks are the best!).

 

[powderburner]

While I am not a club member (there don't seem to be any clubs in Fort Worth), I have done a little 'investigating' to check out potential launch sites in East Fort Worth and West Arlington for DARS. Anyway, it makes me very uncomfortable to ask a land-owner to use their property free of charge and then turn around and ask participants to pay.

I would rather seek some local hobby shop sponsors, or organizations like Kiwanees/KOC/Optimists Club/whatever.

Bob Krech, that snack counter sounds like an excellent approach.

 

[Karl Rocket]

NOVAAR takes donations. Of course, hosting TARC Nationals may garner some extra...dunno.

Spent the morning at the Tarc Nationals, btw.... too cool. F-117 fly over. Buzz Aldrin stopped in. My 5th grader wants to do it in 2009!

Karl

 

[Micromeister]

Thanks guys:
These responses and a few pm's i've received tell me NARHAMs isn't alone in this puzzling dilemma.
I really like the donations bucket at The check in table for walk-on flyers. Yes, I was thinking whatever fee structure we come up with would be for Adult or family/groups.
It seems our biggest concern is that since we don't pay a fee to the park for used of the field, we might in some way be violating some park rules but I'm sure the soccer, Baseball, football etc groups are charging big buck for thier members to particapate in their activites, Guess we're slightly different as a lot of these folks are Walk-ons

 

[AKPilot]

What's always surprised me abou Rocketry versus other hobbies, is how 'inexpensive' it is to be involved - especially in clubs.

If you look at our R/C brethern, they usually pay through the nose (yearly) to be club members.