Missing Airliner

[VonMises]

Hope I'm way off.

• “Terrorist” organization X pays off a third world flight crew to deviate from the planned course and deliver the aircraft intact. Most Likely Sri Lanka or Pakistan. Explains the lack of wreckage.
• Circuit breakers are pulled to disable the transponders, and other equipment that transmits an electronic signature. Explains lack of communication except for the satellite signals from the engines.
• At altitude, the cockpit crew goes on O2, disables the pax masks, then depressurized the cabin until everyone is asleep. Explains the lack of contact with the pax.
• The aircraft is delivered, and parked in a hangar. Explains why the aircraft doesn’t show up on satellite imagery.
• The pax are placed in quarantine. By now all electronic devices are confiscated.
• The aircraft will be disguised as an air freighter, fitted with fuel bladders, and a nuke.

After the attack, the pax will be put on trial and beheaded live on the internet for the world to see.

Iran will be blamed and the US will rally behind obama for the war with Iran that the feds have been trying to start for a decade.

Questions?

 

[TopRamen]

When I was 8, my Mother took my Brother and I to Kenya. On the way over, at Heathrow Airport, I baught a couple of Aviation Themed Magazines and some Toblerone Chocolates at one of the Shops. After Boarding the Plane, I settled in to read my Magazines, as it was my very first time Flying, and I was fascinated by all things Jets/Planes.
One of the Stewardesses,(Now called a "Flight Attendant") noticed, and invited me up to the Cockpit,(Now called "The Flight Deck"), to get to see it. It was 1986, so they were apparently not afraid of an 8 Year Old being a Terrorist. It was a 747, and it was a Clear Night. It was Awe Inspiring to say the Least!!! The Stars and the Sky were so amazing at Cruising Altitude! I was allowed to ask questions, and remember asking about all the "Buttons" on the Roof, and being told that those were mostly Fuses or some such.
I spent nearly a half an Hour up in the Cockpit, and it was something I'll always remember for the rest of my Life.
It is sad that Children nowadays will never have that Opportunity. It was inspirational.

 

[VonMises]

When I was 8, my Mother took my Brother and I to Kenya. On the way over, at Heathrow Airport, I baught a couple of Aviation Themed Magazines and some Toblerone Chocolates at one of the Shops. After Boarding the Plane, I settled in to read my Magazines, as it was my very first time Flying, and I was fascinated by all things Jets/Planes.
One of the Stewardesses,(Now called a "Flight Attendant") noticed, and invited me up to the Cockpit,(Now called "The Flight Deck"), to get to see it. It was 1986, so they were apparently not afraid of an 8 Year Old being a Terrorist. It was a 747, and it was a Clear Night. It was Awe Inspiring to say the Least!!! The Stars and the Sky were so amazing at Cruising Altitude! I was allowed to ask questions, and remember asking about all the "Buttons" on the Roof, and being told that those were mostly Fuses or some such.
I spent nearly a half an Hour up in the Cockpit, and it was something I'll always remember for the rest of my Life.
It is sad that Children nowadays will never have that Opportunity. It was inspirational.

In the 70s we would go to Weir Cook airport at night and go on the aircraft to look inside.
In the 80s we'd sit at the end of the runway and drink beer.

 

[10fttall]

Iran will be blamed and the US will rally behind obama for the war with Iran that the feds have been trying to start for a decade.

Questions?

Yes. If a terrorist organization has the ability to stage piracy of a 777, spirit the thing away, land it in a place where it can take off again, hide it, , hide 200 some people, and refurbish/weaponize it; Why the hell wouldn't they just buy a plane or hire a plane? Pretend it's for some rich dude and they're going to pimp it out, and they wouldn't even really have to hide the renovation of the aircraft very much.

By the way, a nuke would not take anything close to an airplane to deliver. Leveling whole cities, you know? Posession of a nuke would mean these people have already smuggled it internationally. You could drive almost any vehicle you want within a few blocks of ANYTHING in the world. Trust me, hijacking the plane for later use as a flying weapon is NOT what has happened. It is illogical and would take way more effort than MANY other plans that can be thought up in a couple minutes.

 

[TopRamen]

Yes. If a terrorist organization has the ability to stage piracy of a 777, spirit the thing away, land it in a place where it can take off again, hide it, , hide 200 some people, and refurbish/weaponize it; Why the hell wouldn't they just buy a plane or hire a plane? Pretend it's for some rich dude and they're going to pimp it out, and they wouldn't even really have to hide the renovation of the aircraft very much.

By the way, a nuke would not take anything close to an airplane to deliver. Leveling whole cities, you know? You could drive almost any vehicle you want within a few blocks of ANYTHING in the world. Trust me, hijacking the plane for later use as a flying weapon is NOT what has happened. It is illogical and would take way more effort than MANY other plans that can be thought up in a couple minutes.

Agreed. These countries that we seem to be so afraid of, thinking that they would "Steal" a Plane/Jetliner to use as a Weapon, already own plenty of Planes and Jets. Why would they steal what they already have available???

 

[GDJ]

My 2¢: Massive systematic electrical failure due to less than ideal maintenance or just plain missed.

 

[Lowpuller]

When I was a kid, we were allowed in Mission Control during the Apollo 11 launch.


So many rockets, so little time, and money.

 

[georgegassaway]

When I was a kid, we were aloud in Mission Control during the Apollo 11 launch.

You should have been aquiet.

- George Gassaway

 

[VonMises]

Yes. If a terrorist organization has the ability to stage piracy of a 777, spirit the thing away, land it in a place where it can take off again, hide it, , hide 200 some people, and refurbish/weaponize it; Why the hell wouldn't they just buy a plane or hire a plane?

Really?

Buying a plane wouldn’t be as efficient in terms of terror, message or cost. Stealing one mid-flight sends a message that no one is safe, nor out of reach. This also gives the perps a group of hostages to negotiate with if caught, or a group of people to do unspeakable things to after the mission. This is assuming they’re even alive. The cabin pressure could have been lowered to the point where everyone died and they simply tossed them out when they reached the lower altitude. But this wouldn’t be a smart move given the value of hostages that can be used for live “demonstrations” later on. It could give them away as well.

in addition I don’t know of any airlines willing to cough up a relatively new airliner that’s fresh out of major maintenance and inspection, do you? Pulling one out of mothball would cost an overhaul to ensure a successful mission and this is very expensive. Renting or leasing doesn't have the same effect in terms of terror.

So here’s "Why the hell wouldn't they just buy a plane or hire a plane?"

• Paying off a third world flight crew is far more cost efficient.
• It gives the perps a group of hostages, if they’re even alive.
• It sends the message mentioned above. Something that’s important to terrorists. It’s what they do. (Am I the only one that has studied the culture of our enemy?)
• If they succeed, it sends the message that our security efforts since 911 were pointless.

Finding somewhere to land in a friendly country isn’t an issue. And any airfield large enough for a 777 and a hangar for it, would most likely have at least one other building large enough to hold the pax. So this isn’t an issue either.

Pretend it's for some rich dude and they're going to pimp it out, and they wouldn't even really have to hide the renovation of the aircraft very much.

I didn’t mention “some rich dude” nor “pinping it out.” I mentioned disguising it as an air freighter. Why, because air freight doesn’t go through the pax terminal, or the extra layers of security encountered with pax. As a freighter, it isn’t subjected to the same level of scrutiny. In fact, since 911, it’s now easier to get freight imported because the feds made many companies vouch for their foreign partners. All the plane has to do is come in from a “friendly” country on a flight path over the intended target, and it will most likely go unmolested.

The disguise is as simple as a paint job, and removing the interior. This removes weight for fuel and payload. Fuel bladders can be installed in a couple hours and painting an airliner to look like a freighter would take maybe a day.

What do you think the chances are that every airfield large enough for a 777 within 1600 miles from the last known position is being watched by satellite right now? Still think “they wouldn't even really have to hide the renovation of the aircraft very much?” If that aircraft is intact, you can bet it’s in a hangar.

By the way, a nuke would not take anything close to an airplane to deliver.

By the way, a nuke may not need an aircraft for delivery, however:

• It’s cost effective
• Relatively fast
• Best chance for delivery without being caught
• Best opportunity to detonate at the optimum altitude

Leveling whole cities, you know?

Indeed, do you? If you did, then you’d know that a ground level detonation hasn’t nearly the effect of an aerial detonation.

Posession of a nuke would mean these people have already smuggled it internationally.

How does possession of a nuke automatically mandate that it was smuggled across international borders? This makes no sense at all. What borders have our nukes been smuggled across? Pakistan has nukes. So does several other countries that don’t particularly like us right now. Smuggled? Why?

Trust me, hijacking the plane for later use as a flying weapon is NOT what has happened. It is illogical and would take way more effort than MANY other plans that can be thought up in a couple minutes.

If I’m to trust you, then tell us what you know about hijacking? Perhaps you can enlighten us. Besides, I didn’t say it was hijacked. I said the crew was paid to fly it to an alternate destination.

So tell me again, how exactly is this illogical? How would it take so much effort? More effort than 911? Doubtful.

By the way. You’re on the clock. You have a couple minutes to come up with “MANY pother plans” that would take less effort than:

• Paying off a third world flight crew (2 men)
• Landing at a friendly airfield (no effort)
• Prepping the aircraft for the mission (10 men)
• Delivering the package to the target and the optimum altitude (2 men)

And go.

Don’t take too long, Sept 11 is only 6 months away.

I hope I’m wrong. Realistically, odds are that I am. But until wreckage is found, it remains a solid theory.

 

[JPVegh]

From a terror stand point it's not the airliner that has the real value, it's the passengers. This whole idea of using a hijacked airliner for a nuke attack is just plain stupid. There are so many easier, less elaborate ways to sneak a nuke into a city. Flying it across the border in a much smaller aircraft is one way, sailing it into port on a pleasure craft is another. Thousands of tons of illicit drugs enter this country every year, a small percentage of it gets intercepted.

It's starting to look like this may have been a highjacking gone wrong but I still have my money on an electrical malfunction or structual failure or both.

 

[jmight]

If it was terrorism why hasn't anyone stepped up to claim responsibility?

 

[Fred Garvin]

According to Nightline, Malay officials are saying the plane was hijacked, and they will confirm this any moment in a news conference...(AP)

just sayin what they just said on Nightline.....that is all......

 

[TopRamen]

According to Nightline, Malay officials are saying the plane was hijacked, and they will confirm this any moment in a news conference...(AP)

just sayin what they just said on Nightline.....that is all......

Ofcourse it was Hijacked................








By Aliens!!!!

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

When I was 8, my Mother took my Brother and I to Kenya. On the way over, at Heathrow Airport, I baught a couple of Aviation Themed Magazines and some Toblerone Chocolates at one of the Shops. After Boarding the Plane, I settled in to read my Magazines, as it was my very first time Flying, and I was fascinated by all things Jets/Planes.
One of the Stewardesses,(Now called a "Flight Attendant") noticed, and invited me up to the Cockpit,(Now called "The Flight Deck"), to get to see it. It was 1986, so they were apparently not afraid of an 8 Year Old being a Terrorist. It was a 747, and it was a Clear Night. It was Awe Inspiring to say the Least!!! The Stars and the Sky were so amazing at Cruising Altitude! I was allowed to ask questions, and remember asking about all the "Buttons" on the Roof, and being told that those were mostly Fuses or some such.
I spent nearly a half an Hour up in the Cockpit, and it was something I'll always remember for the rest of my Life.
It is sad that Children nowadays will never have that Opportunity. It was inspirational.

In 1981, I was on a jumbo jet of some kind on an AeroMexico flight, and one of my friends said, "Lets go up and see the cockpit." He pressed one of the buttons that called the fight attendants and asked to see the cockpit. She took us up front and we spent about 15 minutes looking out the windows and chatting with the pilots. Awesome view!

I think maybe you're not allowed to do that anymore...

 

[Sooner Boomer]

Might as well jump in with my valuable insight and knowledge about the flight (sooo....basically none).

An alternative to deliberate, direct action by humans is a "serial" or "cascading" failure. There was an initial event That was either ignored or mis-handled, for example a fire caused by inappropriate cargo or cargo handling. The fire caused a series of electrical failures, affecting communications and navigation. The fire didn't cause everything to fail at once, but rather caused radios and other instruments to fail one by one over time. The crew, either not understanding what was happening, or overwhelmed by events does not properly deal with the situation. Things get worst, fire spreads, more circuits become involved and fail. The crew loses situational awareness, flight course deviates. In a desperate attempt to extinguish the fire, the plane is "zoom climbed" To the maximum operational flight ceiling. That might have put the fire out, but the plane is fatally damaged. Flight level is brought back down to a much lower altitude (or it could have been loss of control). The plane staggers along for a while until either total loss of control, mechanical/electrical failure, or it ran out of fuel and crashed into ocean.

 

[Scott Evil]

I was worried about it too, and I don't even remember if you found it or not! Forgive me, did you?

Yup, after about three hours of wandering around aimlessly high steppin' those freakin' corn stalks. Kinda funny how I found it but I'll save that story over a beer at LDRS :wink:

 

[Coop]

What ahappened to the missing aircraft is rather obvious. Consider: 40 mins after takeoff, the flight entered a radar dead spot, and its transponder was shut off. It then climbed past its approved ceiling, and turned left to cross into the Indian Ocean.

What the pilots saw in the sky at that dead spot --shortly after one in the morning, local time... The weather was clear, with light winds at all flight levels. No clouds, no storms in the area. A perfect night for flying, really.... They saw, of course, stars.

The stars must have been right.

Therefore, the only plausible explanation is, that with the right alignment of stars, Great Cthulhu woke up, saw the plane, said --and I quote: "Oh! Neat! An appetizer!" and looked for his Old Bay. Alas, he had none--having used the last of it in 1937 on some little morsel in the Pacific. Nylarlathotep had some, he knew, but Cthulhu and the Crawling Chaos are still in a tiff about that whole thing on the plains of Leng, you dig, and was highly unlikely to let him borrow any. So Cthulhu spirited the plane away to South Africa, where he knew he could acquire some from the markets set up to cater to American tourists. So, any cephalopod seen in South Africa acquiring Old Bay is doing so for nefarious purposes. Be warned. And don't look directly at him, for meeting his gaze reveals the vast expanse of your ignorance and cosmic indifference to us all. The human mind is ill-prepared to fathom this reality. Just give him the Old Bay for the love of god and let him be on his way.

Either that, or something else happened. Without evidence, I'm going with Cthulhu.



Later!

--Coop

 

[VonMises]

From a terror stand point it's not the airliner that has the real value, it's the passengers.

It’s the message as well. Honestly, Am I the only one that has taken the time to study the enemy?

This whole idea of using a hijacked airliner for a nuke attack is just plain stupid.

How so? If they already have the aircraft, without a paper trail I might add. Stupid? Lets explore stupid…

There are so many easier, less elaborate ways to sneak a nuke into a city. Flying it across the border in a much smaller aircraft is one way.

Ok so you agree that using an aircraft is not stupid. It’s the size, right? Since you apparently know everything regarding aircraft size for delivering an unspecified payload mass, why don’t you enlighten us on which aircraft is and is not “stupid.”

What if they have multiple nukes? How much aircraft will it take to carry this unknown payload? Besides, what makes you think the target is a city, or a single city for that matter?

An airliner the size of a 777 could carry multiple devices and at 30,000+ feet 400 mph, it could strike multiple targets before the threat is terminated.

.. sailing it into port on a pleasure craft is another. Thousands of tons of illicit drugs enter this country every year, a small percentage of it gets intercepted.

Indeed, but you forget the message. That, and inbound ships and land vehicles crossing our borders are screened for signatures that would indicate a nuclear device. Not that it couldn’t be masked, but that adds complication. So tell us, the "easier, less elaborate" ways to get around this? Yes stupid indeed.

Not saying this is what happened. It's a theory, and it remains a solid theory until we have evidence otherwise.

Most likely it’s what sooner.boomer is saying.

If it was terrorism why hasn't anyone stepped up to claim responsibility?

Why would they want to give themselves away before the mission?

Might as well jump in with my valuable insight and knowledge about the flight (sooo....basically none).

An alternative to deliberate, direct action by humans is a "serial" or "cascading" failure. There was an initial event That was either ignored or mis-handled, for example a fire caused by inappropriate cargo or cargo handling. The fire caused a series of electrical failures, affecting communications and navigation. The fire didn't cause everything to fail at once, but rather caused radios and other instruments to fail one by one over time. The crew, either not understanding what was happening, or overwhelmed by events does not properly deal with the situation. Things get worst, fire spreads, more circuits become involved and fail. The crew loses situational awareness, flight course deviates. In a desperate attempt to extinguish the fire, the plane is "zoom climbed" To the maximum operational flight ceiling. That might have put the fire out, but the plane is fatally damaged. Flight level is brought back down to a much lower altitude (or it could have been loss of control). The plane staggers along for a while until either total loss of control, mechanical/electrical failure, or it ran out of fuel and crashed into ocean.

We received regular signals from the engines for 4 hours after it disappeared. These reports didn’t indicate anything other than normal operation. So whatever happened it didn’t cause the crew to manipulate the throttle during the normal broadcast intervals. Still this doesn’t preclude an electrical event.

From what I understand, this aircraft is fly by wire and has no hydraulic system. So an electrical fire could cause a temporary or total loss of flight control.

 

[Fred Garvin]

If the plane was indeed hijacked then it's been taken somewhere, landed and hidden.

WHERE ARE THE PASSENGERS?

What will it take to get them released? I understand the need to keep the plane hidden.....if it's located it will be watched 24x7 and shot down as soon as it attempts to fly again.....or disabled by a missile, while still on the ground.....or the runway destroyed by bombing....

Maybe the pax are being used as a human shield? Still in the plane....being held prisoner to prevent any hostile action against the hijackers and plane.....


Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum

 

[georgegassaway]

In replying to JPVegh:

Stupid? Lets explore stupid…

Let's not.

Much of this is devolving into "you can't prove it didn't happen, or CAN'T be done". Which is a rat-hole to nowhere.

I mean, I can't prove it wasn't swallowed by a worm-hole....so what does that mean?

There is a good point that has been made by Mary Schiavo. if the Malaysian government now thinks it was hijacked by a number of people, why hasn't the Malaysian government shut down Malaysia Airlines as a security risk response? Same as how here on 9/11, all flights were stopped for a week or so until security changes were made?

Malaysia has never had to deal with something like this. And it involves their national flag-carrying airline. So there are elements of inexperience, confusion, pride (refusing help from Interpol and the FBI), institutional secrecy, and politics going on.

In some ways, it might be better politically to blame it on hijackers (THEM!) rather than mechanical failure or a pilot gone nuts (US!).

Indeed, there was an Egyptian airliner that crashed because the pilot intentionally committed suicide*. But Egypt never officially concluded that because......politics (In fact, the NTSB report did not use the word suicide, but made it clear that the crash was due to the actions of the relief pilot who pushed the controls nose-down. ). I'm not suggesting that one of the pilots of this flight did that, but that some governments can really interfere with the results of an air crash investigation.

- George Gassaway


* - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

 

[boomtube]

If it was “pilot suicide” then why take so long to do it?
Why turn off the transponder?
Why after turning off the transponder would the suicidal pilot continue flying for many hours before taking the plunge?
One thing is for sure; there is no happy ending for this story.

 

[o1d_dude]

There's a theory that the missing airliner is now parked on a runway in Iran.

 

[georgegassaway]

There's a theory that the missing airliner is now parked on a runway in Iran.

I've got a theory... it could be Bunnies....

[youtube]wcLwtg98S-8[/youtube]

If it was "parked on a runway in Iran", too bad that there are not recon satellites that could show the plane parked on a runway in Iran. Oh, there are.

I do not have any really good theory of what happened. But if it was taken over, and if someone else was flying the plane, such a bad pilot that they could not keep the plane at the same altitude but vary up (beyond its service ceiling) and down, then they would not have had the piloting skills to land it safely. That is what one of the experts have said that makes sense. Along with Mary Schiavo's observation that if the Malaysian goverrnment thinks it was hijacked, then why have they not shut down all of the air Malaysia flights to do a security review and make changes, otherwise it could happen again today.

- George Gassaway

 

[shreadvector]

You should have been aquiet.

- George Gassaway

Best response (so far) for March 2014.

 

[Lowpuller]

I never claimed to no how to spell..........


Yes that one was intentional.


So many rockets, so little time, and money.

 

[Zeroignite]

Gassaway, I like you.

 

[o1d_dude]

Passengers? What passengers...they are now "martyrs" for the cause.

 

[dixontj93060]

Passengers? What passengers...they are now "martyrs" for the cause.

As the investigation moves toward the pilots they are saying the initial move up to 45K feet could have been to "silence" passengers and crew. "A current Boeing 777-200 pilot for an Asian-based airline said the move could have been intended to depressurize the cabin and render the passengers and crew unconscious, preventing them from alerting people on the ground with their cellphones."

 

[MClark]

At lunch today my friends suggested two possibilities.

1. It was done by the Russians as a diversion for the Ukraine invasion.

or , my favorite-This one should be a movie.

2. It was a heist, there was a shipment of gold on board headed for China. Faking a crash gives time to unload the plane and escape. Passengers to be found OK with the plane to avoid 200+ death sentences.


M

 

[10fttall]

Indeed, do you? If you did, then you’d know that a ground level detonation hasn’t nearly the effect of an aerial detonation.

Oh, I forgot, thanks...It turns out you can extinguish a ground-level nuclear bomb detonation with a fire extinguisher.

So please explain again why? Why not use a plane you already have, or one you can buy? You can disable every piece of location/identification at your leisure. If you have a facility to land such a plane and have it take off again, and a place for 200 hostages and the manpower to control them and renovate the plane...you have an organization that has the cash and resources to smuggle anything anywhere ALREADY. What you are saying is ludicrous.