Loki Green motors?

[wsume99]

I have a rocket that I only fly on green motors. I'm not sure why I didn't notice this before but Loki does not have any green motors for sale. Am I missing something? I saw no answer in the first 4 pages of a forum search. There has to be a logical answer to this.

 

[Antares JS]

Loki produces a white, red, blue, sparky, a pink/purple that's red and blue together, and the G94 ice blue that's white and blue together. There is no Loki green.

Maybe you are thinking of AMW Green Gorilla, which was also flown in a snap ring case?

 

[wsume99]

Maybe you are thinking of AMW Green Gorilla, which was also flown in a snap ring case?

Yeah, I think I associated Gorilla with Loki. Still wondering why Loki doesn't make green motors though.

 

[Antares JS]

Yeah, I think I associated Gorilla with Loki. Still wondering why Loki doesn't make green motors though.

Loki is a small operation that doesn't seem to have the capacity to make a lot of different propellant types.

 

[rharshberger]

It might also have to do with the fact that the chemical that makes greens...well green...a barium compound...is pretty nasty stuff, why risk a powdery nasty chem when their are already enough liquid ones in the mix (heres looking at you isocyanate curatives). A small company may not want to assume the additional risk, but I really dont know.

 

[wsume99]

Loki has a pretty good assortment of propellants available. I was just surprised to see there was no green. I didn't notice it until I wanted to order a green motor from Loki.

 

[Loki Research]

It might also have to do with the fact that the chemical that makes greens...well green...a barium compound...is pretty nasty stuff, why risk a powdery nasty chem when their are already enough liquid ones in the mix (heres looking at you isocyanate curatives). A small company may not want to assume the additional risk, but I really dont know.

BINGO! I gave away all my barium chems years ago. I won't go near the stuff. Not worth the risk to us, at all.

 

[cwbullet]

BINGO! I gave away all my barium chems years ago. I won't go near the stuff. Not worth the risk to us, at all.

There are other ways to make green outside of Barium.

 

[jmasterj]

Speaking of "why doesn't Loki have a specific product," why are there no Loki 54mm blue (and therefore cocktail) motors, @Loki Research ?

 

[SparkyVT]

There are other ways to make green outside of Barium.

Boron? I'm curious if you are thinking of another way to make a green flame. My understanding is that you need a green-light producing compound since green is a primary color on the light wheel. This means that if you try to add Blue (Copper) and Yellow (Sodium) you'll get white instead of green.

I bought a pound of Boron a few years back and tried many, many different formulations to no avail. To the best of my knowledge and experience, the problem is that BO2 is responsible for the green flame but is a transient molecule that only gets produced in high-oxygen environments. Lots of other compounds want to form first before BO2, and you need an extremely high AP ratio to produce enough BO2 for a good green flame. Consequently, this requires a fairly dry mix absent metal stabilizers & sound dampeners like zinc. You also can't just ramp-up the Boron ratio to make up for it. It reacts poorly and you end up with a supersonic boron sprayer instead of a green flame. Eventually I got my AP ratio high enough to produce a green-ish flame, but then the motors started CATO'ing from what I suspect were cracks forming in the grains. After some spectacular and costly failures, I gave up.

I've used Barium Nitrate with pretty good success and I'm still alive. Barium Nitrate isn't as soluble or powdery as Barium Carbonate, which I stay away from. I flew a green 6500 N-s M motor at Airfest this past weekend that worked great. Keep in mind that my exposure risk is much lower than a manufacturer, since I only make a few motors per year but a manufacturer would need to make thousands.

 

[NateB]

I've used Barium Nitrate with pretty good success and I'm still alive.

I have haved used Barium Nitrate as well and it can make an excellent green. It is toxic and some people are more sensitive to it than others. I have not had any problems mixing it outdoors with a simple half face respirator on, but some people get an instant, very strong headache being around it. If that were me, I wouldn't want to know what a longer exposure would do. There is also a difference in the amount of exposure for a typical hobbiest and someone mixing for commercial sales.

 

[Loki Research]

There are other ways to make green outside of Barium.

None that are worth the trouble or cost, or that produce as good of results as barium.

Speaking of "why doesn't Loki have a specific product," why are there no Loki 54mm blue (and therefore cocktail) motors, @Loki Research ?

There will be at least one before fall arrives.

 

[cwbullet]

None that are worth the trouble or cost, or that produce as good of results as barium.

There will be at least one before fall arrives.

We used to make nice green flames with one of the copper chlorides and sodium borate.

Have you tried either? I just know chemistry from my high school and undergrad education. We used to use it to make fireworks. Seems like it might be forth a test motor.

 

[terryg]

LOKI cocktail rules!

 

[jmasterj]

There will be at least one before fall arrives.

Any update on 54mm blue/cocktail motors?

 

[aerostadt]

Chemistry is interesting stuff. Although, it is well known by rocketeers that barium can be toxic, barium sulfate is commonly injected into the rectum for taking x-ray pictures.

 

[KBlack]

There will be at least one before fall arrives.

Which fall?

Or is it as we've been joking at work lately, by EOD, as in End of December. (Which December is not specified.)

 

[Art Upton]

pancreatic cancer is what the original owner died of at AMW [Green]

 

[prfesser]

Flame color depends on the element or species in question, and on the specific temperature and chemical environment. Borax produces a nice green when dispersed in methanol and lighted, but is pretty innocuous at higher temperatures. Copper in some lower-temperature APCP compositions can produce a pinkish-red flame rather than blue or purple. Lithium is nicely red at low flame temperatures but invisible at high temperatures. Etc.

 

[cwbullet]

pancreatic cancer is what the original owner died of at AMW [Green] , His sister helped the new owner and now she passed also ... been a hard time; Rest In Peace

Did she die of the same cancer?

 

[Art Upton]

.

 

[cwbullet]

We do not know. Her husband would however.

Your post could be interpreted as if the deaths were tied to green motors. I do not think we need to know.

 

[Art Upton]

Your post could be interpreted as if the deaths were tied to green motors. I do not think we need to know.

They probably are not tied to green motors; I simply said the original owner died of that ...

 

[jsdemar]

Did she die of the same cancer?

No she didn't.

 

[Loki Research]

Any update on 54mm blue/cocktail motors?

I got bogged down with continued strong sales this summer/fall that has kept us very occupied.
There's a 54/1200 4g blue load ready to send off together with the N-5500's. I'm trying to get the instructions finalized and finished on the latter still. I have an 8 grain 38/480 blue load I was going to send in as well (USPS shippable), but I don't know how advantageous it will be now that SP-7887 allows for us to ship the 4 grain I-430 without hazmat, other than the more expensive cost of a UN 4g box isn't required for USPS. Ideally I'd like to get everything sent in one shipment.