Hound Dog Missile

[burkefj]

I was sent this prototype kit by one of my rocket glider customers and I told him I'd do a build thread and try to get the word out in case people were interested.
This is a BT-60 based kit with a 24mm motor mounted in the main body and parachute recovery.

This will be my first time papering fins as well since normally I would just use basswood for a model this size if it needed strength, but I'll do it his way.

The kit is fairly scale, but the canards are not in the correct location on the cone as designed, he wasn't sure why the designer did this, whether for CG or just an incorrect drawing, but I'm going to replace the papered balsa fins with a single .030 styrene canard slotted through the nose cone using a dremel and ca'd in place. I'll make a new openrocket file accordingly. Also the conduit/access panel underneath the turbojet should be flatter on the bottom, not as rounded.

The kit came with some nice features, a crimped on cable shock cord anchor, nylon chute with double swivels, clay nose weight(I'll use lead bb's since it is easier to install), a metal screw on motor retainer and a thrust ring, clear printed waterslide decals, plastic nose cone, a laser cut stand for attaching the wings straight, 3 3-d printed cones for the turbojet and tail cone, two small plastic cones for the turbojet intakes, and many pages of instructions. Nice 1/8" balsa for the fins which must be hand cut using templates provided.

I'll also use rail buttons instead of launch lugs for my model, mounted on the side of the turbojet pod.

Designed by Richard Dean and kitted by him and Rick Ely. Contact Rick at [email protected] if you have questions I haven't answered, like cost and how to get one.

 

[burkefj]

I'll be using this technique:

 

[burkefj]

Assembled the fuselage/wing alignment guide, and then made the new .03 styrene canards, downsized about 20% and then slotted into the nose cone starting about 2" back from the tip and glued in place with a little styrene cement and then thin CA for a fillet, looks good and won't shift the cp forward that much according to my new ork file I'm making.

 

[Daddyisabar]

For a kit I would just use some simple 3M lable paper. No need to sand balsa, just make sure no dust, slap it on the lable paper, trim with Xacto, CA the edges, trim off a small section with Xacto on root edge for fillets. Slap on some tacky glue with a small drop of thick CA on top and bottom of root edge and place. Throw on a fillet and done in no time. Easy peasy lemon squeezy, no pain. CA soak if needed but probably overkill. Makes it harder to paint.

Sure this will lead you to the Dark Side techniques but you are already a lost cause building a silly airplane oddroc like the hound dog.

I like silly airplane rockets with power pods on the belly. Good to see some kits pushing the envelope. No need for complex scratchers when the kit has it all!

 

[Daddyisabar]

Assembled the fuselage/wing alignment guide, and then made the new .03 styrene canards, downsized about 20% and then slotted into the nose cone starting about 2" back from the tip and glued in place with a little styrene cement and then thin CA for a fillet, looks good and won't shift the cp forward that much according to my new ork file I'm making, rest of the build will be on hold till I get my papering glues on monday.
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Fins up front look cool. But the dern things need to be perfectly straight. Blast the CP, you are building a hound dog! More nose weight and power will solve All yer problems! Well most anyways.

 

[burkefj]

Fins up front look cool. But the dern things need to be perfectly straight. Blast the CP, you are building a hound dog! More nose weight and power will solve All yer problems! Well most anyways.

I used the mold line in the cone to cut the slots and the fins are one piece through both sides so there's no cant or twist to them it should be pretty good

 

[burkefj]

A little more progress, glued the centering rings and the rear retainer onto the motor tube, then constructed the turbojet pod. You can see how the rear retainer just sticks back past the end of the boat tail.

 

[Daddyisabar]

A little more progress, glued the centering rings and the rear retainer onto the motor tube, then constructed the turbojet pod. You can see how the rear retainer just sticks back past the end of the boat tail.View attachment 618038View attachment 618039View attachment 618040View attachment 618041View attachment 618042

The motor and fins are at the back of the rocket. WHERE THEY SHOULD BE! It looks good and looks are the most important.

 

[Daddyisabar]

I used the mold line in the cone to cut the slots and the fins are one piece through both sides so there's no cant or twist to them it should be pretty good

You are my airplane rocket Master Jedi, like a Yoda.

 

[Daddyisabar]

Can't wait to see the papered fins. Gone is your papered balsa fin virginity. Go over the top and receive your baptism of fire! Build them light, build them strong!

 

[burkefj]

Got the fins cut out of the very nice hard balsa using the templates and sanded the LE's round waiting for papering. I did two changes, reduced the depth of the turbojet conduit on the bottom and flattened the profile as per the real missile. I also made a tab on the top of the turbojet pylon and slotted both the turbojet pod and the main body tube to help with alignment and strength.

I then completed the very nice cable recovery mount, crimped the cable to length using the supplied crimp blocks and attached the kevlar line and swivel included.

 

[Astrobuf]

I was sent this prototype kit by one of my rocket glider customers and I told him I'd do a build thread and try to get the word out in case people were interested.
This is a BT-60 based kit with a 24mm motor mounted in the main body and parachute recovery.

This will be my first time papering fins as well since normally I would just use basswood for a model this size if it needed strength, but I'll do it his way.

The kit is fairly scale, but the canards are not in the correct location on the cone as designed, he wasn't sure why the designer did this, whether for CG or just an incorrect drawing, but I'm going to replace the papered balsa fins with a single .030 styrene canard slotted through the nose cone using a dremel and ca'd in place. I'll make a new openrocket file accordingly. Also the conduit/access panel underneath the turbojet should be flatter on the bottom, not as rounded.

The kit came with some nice features, a crimped on cable shock cord anchor, nylon chute with double swivels, clay nose weight(I'll use lead bb's since it is easier to install), a metal screw on motor retainer and a thrust ring, clear printed waterslide decals, plastic nose cone, a laser cut stand for attaching the wings straight, 3 3-d printed cones for the turbojet and tail cone, two small plastic cones for the turbojet intakes, and many pages of instructions. Nice 1/8" balsa for the fins which must be hand cut using templates provided.

I'll also use rail buttons instead of launch lugs for my model, mounted on the side of the turbojet pod.

Designed by Richard Dean and kitted by him and Rick Ely. Contact Rick at [email protected] if you have questions I haven't answered, like cost and how to get one.



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I like to use a material called Silkspan to reinforce balsa fins, wings etc. It is an old school material used to wrap balsa RC aircraft before monocote became popular. I paint it on using aircraft dope as the adhesive. A coat or two of dope on top and it sands out beautifully.

The material is still readily available, atbleast on line. I guess the history is it is the same fabric as used to make teabags. It is tough and porous, so the dope mounting gives good strength.

Astrobuf

 

[burkefj]

So first tests with papering was garbage. I followed Tim's video to the letter, the paper lightly sprayed with contact spray, then stuck to the wood, then soaked with CA and wiped off, the problem with there were a few spots on the edges that came up a bit, and when I pulled it just pulled all the CA paper right off. Tim says to not use a lot of spray so the CA can soak all the way through to the wood, the problem is even if I use no spray adhesive and just hold the paper onto the balsa and soak with the water thin ca he recommends, it still does not soak all the way through and stick to the wood even though it looks saturated at the top.

I'm using copy paper that says multi purpose designed for two sided printing. The kit designer says to use more spray adhesive but if you do that the only thing holding the paper to the wood is the mild removable contact cement, not the CA and the CA is not soaking into the wood to strengthen it.

The only thing I found that works was to CA the paper to the wood a bit at a time, then soak the top layer, messy but that seemed to work. People using label paper are just relying on the sticky back to hold the paper to the wood and I don't think they are getting the benefit they could get.

I must be the only person that thinks this.

I was using 3m-77 spray as the cement to hold the paper, I could spray both the paper and wood and then the paper would hold down permanently but the CA will still not soak through.

 

[burkefj]

Okay I did one more test after doing some reading, so people are using label paper which is just mildly sticky and then either just painting directly on that or soaking that with CA so they're not getting adhesion to the wood with super glue, they're just using the sticky paper glue so I decided to go back and use the 3M 77 like it's intended where you spray the wood and the paper and let that dry and then use it like a contact cement and put that on and then I soaked that with CA and yeah it destroyed the paper trying to peel it off the wood so at least that gets good adhesion to the wood so I did the wings that way and I got the wings and tail attached and I'm moving forward.

 

[burkefj]

Assembled, time for fillets. I went with 5-minute epoxy for this part.

 

[Daddyisabar]

Oh the pain and suffering of papering squishy balsa fins. Such a difficult and complicated mess. Why would anyone do it when there are so many pieces of beautiful basswood lying around just crying out to be used? But you are a true warrior. Keep up the good work!

 

[burkefj]

Oh the pain and suffering of papering squishy balsa fins. Such a difficult and complicated mess. Why would anyone do it when there are so many pieces of beautiful basswood lying around just crying out to be used? But you are a true warrior. Keep up the good work!

The only reason I'm doing it is because I wanted to do a fair review of his kit and that's what he recommended and I didn't want to spend a dollar on this project of my own money

 

[Daddyisabar]

The only reason I'm doing it is because I wanted to do a fair review of his kit and that's what he recommended and I didn't want to spend a dollar on this project of my own money

It is so wonderful you are taking your first steps into non guided airplane rockets for your friend! All the trials of papering balsa and not melting your thin plastic nose cones while curing epoxy nose weight. There is a certain pleasure when you pound modeling clay into tiny LPR nose cones, not as cool or hip as epoxy and BB's, but fun. Implementing high end mods to use awesome rails instead of stinking rods is also cool. But best of all it is totally free! Awesome!

Watching these awesome build threads helps me try to take my first steps in overcoming my fear of using computer simulation, basswood, swing tests, RC, cut outs, soaking CA in copy paper on my balsa fins, etc. Much fear and fear is the mind killer. In hindsight, maybe I should have just stuck with kits. But now there are many more kits of non guided airplane rockets I love. YIPEE! Keep 'em coming!

 

[burkefj]

It is so wonderful you are taking your first steps into non guided airplane rockets for your friend! All the trials of papering balsa and not melting your thin plastic nose cones while curing epoxy nose weight. There is a certain pleasure when you pound modeling clay into tiny LPR nose cones, not as cool or hip as epoxy and BB's, but fun. Implementing high end mods to use awesome rails instead of stinking rods is also cool. But best of all it is totally free! Awesome!

Watching these awesome build threads helps me try to take my first steps in overcoming my fear of using computer simulation, basswood, swing tests, RC, cut outs, soaking CA in copy paper on my balsa fins, etc. Much fear and fear is the mind killer. In hindsight, maybe I should have just stuck with kits. But now there are many more kits of non guided airplane rockets I love. YIPEE! Keep 'em coming!

I've been doing bomarcs and winged plastic model conversions since the 90s, the only thing I'm afraid of is tractor mounted motors

 

[neil_w]

Okay I did one more test after doing some reading, so people are using label paper which is just mildly sticky and then either just painting directly on that or soaking that with CA so they're not getting adhesion to the wood with super glue, they're just using the sticky paper glue

I use label paper. It doesn't add as much strength as glued paper but it definitely does add some. Not sure what the real requirement is here for this kit.

My procedure is to *thoroughly* remove the dust from the wood, first using a soft brush and then blue tape to lift the remaining dust. Then apply the paper. I would say it is more than "just mildly sticky", it really adheres quite well if the balsa is properly prepared. Then I sand off excess (words the paper edges into the wood) and run thin CA only around the edges. My results are consistently quite good, and I haven't yet had a any separation (oldest papered fins are about 8 years old now).

If you really need maximum strength then glue is the way to go, but that is rarely the case for me.

 

[burkefj]

I use label paper. It doesn't add as much strength as glued paper but it definitely does add some. Not sure what the real requirement is here for this kit.

My procedure is to *thoroughly* remove the dust from the wood, first using a soft brush and then blue tape to lift the remaining dust. Then apply the paper. I would say it is more than "just mildly sticky", it really adheres quite well if the balsa is properly prepared. Then I sand off excess (words the paper edges into the wood) and run thin CA only around the edges. My results are consistently quite good, and I haven't yet had a any separation (oldest papered fins are about 8 years old now).

If you really need maximum strength then glue is the way to go, but that is rarely the case for me.

For this kit it's needed for the standoff because of the balsa sheet size and for handling/finishing the grain is parallel to the model, for the rest it's just for finish and maybe impact damage from the heavy cone. I might try the adhesive paper if I ever do another balsa finned model. I get spoiled with my gliders and Depron which don't need any finishing. The last few models I've built that weren't gliders had clear fins or 3-d printed ones.

 

[Astrobuf]

I've been doing bonarcs and PMC conversion since the 90s, the only thing I'm afraid of is tractor mounted motors

I built my first BOMARC from the '71 Estes kit 50 years ago. Flew like a lead balloon.

This model looks to be of great interest to me. It seems smaller than the old Estes kit, but not so small (mini bomarc) to be of no interest to me. This looks to be goldilocks "just right" Will this reach the market? When?

Astrobuf

 

[burkefj]

I built my first BOMARC from the '71 Estes kit 50 years ago. Flew like a lead balloon.

This model looks to be of great interest to me. It seems smaller than the old Estes kit, but not so small (mini bomarc) to be of no interest to me. This looks to be goldilocks "just right" Will this reach the market? When?

Astrobuf

Use the email at the top in the first post, talk to Rick tell him you saw this thread he's making some tweaks based on some feedback that I gave him and he can probably let you know when they think they might have it ready, it's a nice size, actually larger than your Citation Bomarc, in length and body tube size.

 

[burkefj]

Ready for primer, you can see the size of it.

 

[Daddyisabar]

With all the junk hanging on one side it might want to go more airplane and chase things like a Hound Dog! How far can you push the drag imbalance envelope given flying conditions and motor chosen? So exciting! Yes Mr. RSO, an airplane like flight nice and high after the initial thrust spike is really cool, just no naughtiness off the rod/rail or close to the ground. Those perfectly straight, tiny canards will have little to no effect. At least it is not mindsimed!

Big airplane rockets rock!

Time to go to Beauty School with no drop outs. I forsee a lovely matte finish.

 

[jhill9693]

So first tests with papering was garbage. I followed Tim's video to the letter, the paper lightly sprayed with contact spray, then stuck to the wood, then soaked with CA and wiped off, the problem with there were a few spots on the edges that came up a bit, and when I pulled it just pulled all the CA paper right off. Tim says to not use a lot of spray so the CA can soak all the way through to the wood, the problem is even if I use no spray adhesive and just hold the paper onto the balsa and soak with the water thin ca he recommends, it still does not soak all the way through and stick to the wood even though it looks saturated at the top.

I'm using copy paper that says multi purpose designed for two sided printing. The kit designer says to use more spray adhesive but if you do that the only thing holding the paper to the wood is the mild removable contact cement, not the CA and the CA is not soaking into the wood to strengthen it.

The only thing I found that works was to CA the paper to the wood a bit at a time, then soak the top layer, messy but that seemed to work. People using label paper are just relying on the sticky back to hold the paper to the wood and I don't think they are getting the benefit they could get.

I must be the only person that thinks this.

I was using 3m-77 spray as the cement to hold the paper, I could spray both the paper and wood and then the paper would hold down permanently but the CA will still not soak through.

You are definitely NOT the only person that thinks this.

 

[Daddyisabar]

Dear Mr. Santa. All I want for Christmas is a paper and glue that works for everything!

I remember when the Sirius Interogater 18mm LPR came out and the directions incorporated this "new fangled" lable papering of fins. I worked for that kit if you just rounded the edges and didn't airfoil the fins. Those directions were good.

Some curse the sticky lable paper while I have gone through three boxes of 8.5X11 sheets of the stuff. What works for one doesn't always work for the other. You must search your feelings and find your own way with the Force. So many variables in the techniques!

But now you are entering the realm of the (non guided) airplane oddroc builder. Desperate to take weight off, especially on the hind end on your highly questionable design. Despirately needing strength and fin area to bring down the CP, but lazy and cheap at the same time. Desperately trying to make it look good too! So much desperation.

Slap your forehead and lament, "I couldda had a 3FNC!" (From an old tomato juice commercial only the old dudes will remember. )

 

[burkefj]

With all the junk hanging on one side it might want to go more airplane and chase things like a Hound Dog! How far can you push the drag imbalance envelope given flying conditions and motor chosen? So exciting! Yes Mr. RSO, an airplane like flight nice and high after the initial thrust spike is really cool, just no naughtiness off the rod/rail or close to the ground. Those perfectly straight, tiny canards will have little to no effect. At least it is not mindsimed!

Big airplane rockets rock!

Time to go to Beauty School with no drop outs. I forsee a lovely matte finish.

You are so weird, I mean that as a compliment of course

 

[burkefj]

Dear Mr. Santa. All I want for Christmas is a paper and glue that works for everything!

I remember when the Sirius Interogater 18mm LPR came out and the directions incorporated this "new fangled" lable papering of fins. I worked for that kit if you just rounded the edges and didn't airfoil the fins. Those directions were good.

Some curse the sticky lable paper while I have gone through three boxes of 8.5X11 sheets of the stuff. What works for one doesn't always work for the other. You must search your feelings and find your own way with the Force. So many variables in the techniques!

But now you are entering the realm of the (non guided) airplane oddroc builder. Desperate to take weight off, especially on the hind end on your highly questionable design. Despirately needing strength and fin area to bring down the CP, but lazy and cheap at the same time. Desperately trying to make it look good too! So much desperation.

Slap your forehead and lament, "I couldda had a 3FNC!" (From an old tomato juice commercial only the old dudes will remember. )

Normally I just use basswood and skip the toilet paper civering, and my mind Sim is fully backed up with the power of open Rocket, confidence! I think this is going to fly just like a bomarc which has the elevator, stab and the wing line up high, even with those 2 ram Jets hanging down, they typically go toward the spine not the ramjets so the wing and tail drag seem to be dominant, this model does have a single larger ramjet but the wing line is in the middle and it doesn't have an elevator so I think it'll be fairly neutral.

 

[Daddyisabar]

My mindsim says it will fly with a tendency to arc over showing off that glorious belly. A tad over stable, punchy motor and conservative delay on first flight. Get to know it and increase delay for more glide excitement. Stay away from wind that will make it go airplane off the rod or rail. Fly with confidence, fairly neutral, no fear! Then make the canards bigger and cooler looking.