I am working on building my own rocket motor at home with black powder, and I would like peoples thoughts as to how I can increase the maximum thrust and reduce the burn time of my engine to produce as much thrust as I can in as little time as possible. I have attached the video of the test to this post. Any tips or improvement suggestions would be much appreciated!
Homemade Rocket Engine Improvements
- Thread starter jdownie
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Recommend NOT toying with black powder. But if you do, that'll probably get more traction on one of the fireworking forums.
The reason for that is NAR launches on't allow for any motor modifications, and TRA launches don't allow for black powder experimentation.
The reason for that is NAR launches on't allow for any motor modifications, and TRA launches don't allow for black powder experimentation.
Could you please tell me what you mean by NAR and TRA launches? I think I know what they are but I am not certain.
Welcome @jdownie . Discussions of motor fabrication are allowed in the Research sub-forum. Rules for access:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/research-forum-access.17943/post-158303
TRF now hosts a restricted forum related to Research Motors. Requirements for access are:
1) TRA senior member
2) US Person (US Citizen or US Permanent Resident (Green Card Holder)). There are no exceptions.
3) High Power Certification (2 or 3)
To request access to the forum, please send a conversation or PM to cwbullet
Please allow up to 7-10 for access for review and processing -- we're all volunteers and things come up.
Please do not include scans of identification cards (driver's license, passport, etc).
If you are a parent/legal guardian/older sibling of someone who does not qualify for access, allowing someone otherwise not eligible for access to use your account to access the Research forum will result in permanent loss of access to the Research forum.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/research-forum-access.17943/post-158303
TRF now hosts a restricted forum related to Research Motors. Requirements for access are:
1) TRA senior member
2) US Person (US Citizen or US Permanent Resident (Green Card Holder)). There are no exceptions.
3) High Power Certification (2 or 3)
To request access to the forum, please send a conversation or PM to cwbullet
- Your full name:
- Your TRF username:
- Your email address (associated with your TRF account):
- Are you a US citizen (required),
- You must also attach a scan or picture of your currentTRA Membership card, that shows HPR certification. A picture of the card taken with a digital camera or phone is fine, as long as the card image is legible. The image / scan must be a JPG or PNG. No PDFs.
Please allow up to 7-10 for access for review and processing -- we're all volunteers and things come up.
Please do not include scans of identification cards (driver's license, passport, etc).
If you are a parent/legal guardian/older sibling of someone who does not qualify for access, allowing someone otherwise not eligible for access to use your account to access the Research forum will result in permanent loss of access to the Research forum.
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Generally, making your own motors out of black powder is dangerous and not recommended. There are other, more sensible approaches that can be discussed elsewhere (not here).
Just noticed you're an Aussie. Welcome. The NAR is USA only but Tripoli does have a presence in your neck of the woods. Can't speak about the regulatory environment but several of your compatriots are active here. I understand that access to commercial hobby rocket motors can be an issue. Good luck and stay safe. 
[edit] calling @Cape Byron
[edit] calling @Cape Byron
drewnickel
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Definitely recommend getting involved in Tripoli and pursuing high power certification if you plan to make experimental motors. As others have said, research motors are not discussed on the public forums here (primarily due to concerns over ITAR compliance as well as showing those involved are at a sufficient level of experience to begin looking at research motors, i.e. high power certified where they know the regulations and safe building/testing practices). BP motors are not something you should be working with as an amateur, as they normally require packing the powder in a consistent way under several tons of pressure to be predictable and safe, something a company like Estes can do but the average person at home simply lacks the equipment for.
Join Tripoli and scout out some launches, talk with members about getting certified, and before you pursue experimental motors find someone who can physically walk you through the process. Reading a tutorial on the internet is not a replacement for hands-on learning and is a good way to get seriously injured or worse.
Join Tripoli and scout out some launches, talk with members about getting certified, and before you pursue experimental motors find someone who can physically walk you through the process. Reading a tutorial on the internet is not a replacement for hands-on learning and is a good way to get seriously injured or worse.
To this point, BP needs to be compressed over 3000psi to make the motor; autoignition pressure is not much more than that! So it really requires special reliable machine, special building, remote controls, etc.
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Make it CORE burning instead of END burning. Black Powder itself burns at a certain rate unless you change the formula, but you can't change it too much or it stops working. That said, a more aggressive oxidizer might help. But I know zip about chemistry.
drewnickel
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Black powder burns extremely quickly, so basically all commercial BP motors are end burners to prevent over pressurization. That being said, this isn't the place to discuss experimental motors, and even if it were TRA doesn't allow experimental BP motors. If he pursues EX motors he should stick with KN sorbitol or APCP or if he feels adventurous he could do hybrids. You can't even fly experimental motors at club launches without a TRA L2 certification, and you should seek a mentor to directly learn proper safety, design, mixing, casting and firing procedures prior to making motors.
cbrarick
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Don't give advice on what you don't know about. Good way to get someone hurt.
My humble opinion, stay away from micrograins (BP and Zn-S. People have been hurt doing both. Neither is allowed at a Tripoli launch.
get involved with Tripoli and see what you can do in Australia A good search gives conflicting information.
As mentioned by the other members, we don’t discuss motor design and fabrication in this part of the forum. As you’re an Aussie, you (and the rest of us over here) are not eligible to join the Research Forum.
The best advice we can provide here is for you to contact your local Tripoli prefecture or rocketry club and discuss your ideas with an experienced member. There are TRA prefectures in NSW, ACT, Victoria, Tasmania, Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia.
Here are links to a few Australian TRA rocketry clubs:
ACT https://crg.tidyhq.com/
NSW https://nswrocketry.org.au/
Victoria https://www.victorianrocketry.org.au/
WA https://wars.org.au/content.aspx?page_id=0&club_id=301884
Whatever you do, be safe and find an experienced mentor.
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When I learned EX motors making, it cost me $799 to make my J motor that was static fired and not in a rocket... I made a few other motors and then sold all my EX stuff ; just not what I wanted
cbrarick
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It's not everyone's cup of tea. Some of us find it fun, but to do it well, there's a steep learning curve. I've been doing it for years and still have lots to learn. Plus there are many subprojects that are like falling down into a rabbit hole. I'm trying to perfect my vibration table for casting on.
Thanks for that.
Do you know of any clubs that are in Queensland? Because I have looked it up, but I could only find a Facebook page that hasn't been updated in three years, and a website that is no longer up.
The Queensland Rocketry Society (QRS) is active, but their website appears to be down. There are QRS members on this forum, so hopefully they will give you the information you require about local activities up there.
rcktnut
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When trying to make your own BP motors just a few words of advice:
Alright, thanks again.
If you go to the Prefectures page on the Tripoli website you will be able to see all the prefectures in Australia. If you zoom into the Queensland prefecture on the map and click on the marker you will get the contact details for the Prefect.
https://www.tripoli.org/content.aspx?page_id=225&club_id=795696
https://www.tripoli.org/content.aspx?page_id=225&club_id=795696
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