Highperion - My attempt to break the Tripoli H altitude record

Onebadhawk
SilicdyneTRF
madcow rocketry
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I'm going to spray it with the 2k clear coat tomorrow morning. Are there any guides on how to polish it?

I also can't find the 12" mylar parachute I used for the first flight. I have a 9" nylon that should work, but I am a bit concerned about breaking a fin on landing with it. I know people have flown very similar rockets just fine with a 9" parachute, and the playa will be a bit softer than the rocks it landed on last time, but I'm still mildly concerned. Mostly just kicking myself for not realizing sooner and ordering a new one.
 
O.M.G. That is a beautiful AV-Bay, @Neutronium95 !

Q: How much volume do you have for a chute ?

I don't think I have anything that would fit in your 29mm nose -- a 15-inch Top Flight 'thin' is my smallest chute.

Otherwise, I would overnite a chute, just because I want to 'see' your flight :)

Maybe someone local has a larger-than-9-inch chute that you could borrow that fits in your nose ?

Otherwise, looking back at your thread, "Hyperion I" landed at 22 ft/sec on the 12-inch mylar chute ( just about perfect ), so you should be 'legal' on a 9-inch chute and the Playa should be soft after all that fairly recent rain ...

Good luck this weekend at Balls !

-- kjh

EDIT: p.s. I had to do a little arithmetic ...

A1 = Area( 12-in chute ) = 6 * 6 * pi = 113 in^2
A2 = Area( 9-in chute ) = 4.5 * 4.5 * pi = 64 in^2

v1 = terminal velocity for the 12-inch chute = 22 ft/sec

Assume a similar burn-out mass for Hyperion I and Hyperion II and a similar atmosphere and CD.

v1 * v1 * A1 = v2 * v2 * A2

v2 = sqrt( v1 * v1 * A1 / A2 )

v2 = sqrt( 22 * 22 * 113 / 64 )

v2 = 29.2 ft/sec

Did I do that right ?

I've had more than a few rockets land a little faster than that at Ocotillo on purpose :)
 
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I was prepping everything for clear coat when I dropped the nosecone and the tip broke off. I have it back in the mold, but with this delay I don't think that I'll have time to clear coat the rocket, let it cure, and then sand and polish it before I leave.


I'll probably just get the surface as smooth as I can with sandpaper and call it good.


PXL_20230919_170620037.jpgPXL_20230919_172057296.jpg
 
Hobie1dog said:
I think I read where you said you were going to put a lot better finish on it, can you put an automotive paint job on it and buff it out so that it is perfectly smooth? like this one?
CEBOwMY.jpg

bEOj3TS.jpg

this should definitely reduce drag
scSwibQ.jpg
Click to expand...
Dang how do you get finishes like those?
 
I did a quick test assembly of my new tower this morning. Highperion fits pretty much perfectly. I designed this tower to work for 29-98mm rockets, and both 3 and 4 fin configurations. The lean is because of protruding bolt heads on the bottom.

PXL_20230920_163950473.jpgPXL_20230920_164316971.jpg

The uprights are 1.25" Aluminum tubes from a local metal supplier. I wanted 8 foot, but they only had 6 and 12 foot options, so I went with 6 foot. All of the flat metal parts were cut out of steel by SendCutSend. I'll post all of the part files in a new thread after BALLS, assuming I don't find any major problems with it when using it for the first time. I'll be flying a H13, K1103, and a KBA M3500R out of it, so I should have a pretty good ide of whether or not it'll work.
 
jackiboi_11 said:
Hope you don’t mind me asking but is wet sanding when you sand before it’s dried?
Click to expand...
Wet sanding is when the part and the sandpaper are both wet with water. I dot it occasionally, just to keep the dust down, but from what I know it can also lead to nicer results.
 
robopup said:
Nice printed guides for tacking fins on! After my experience last week I think I'm dumping my current method and headed that direction as well. Off to order a serious pile of filament now...

@jackiboi_11 - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=wet+sanding
Click to expand...
The block with a hole down the middle abd slots for the fins works great, but doesnt scale up well since it uses so much filament. I came up with this design fro my 54mm submin, which I think I'll iterate on for future projects.

PXL_20230716_002800707.MP.jpg
 
Yes, that's very similar to what I do here. I have different versions printed for different fin thicknesses. In general I've been happy with the results (29mm to 75mm), but I think most of the coning on my latest flight was caused because of my jig. Even though the forward and aft ends are connected by 8 angles, it's still possible for the top and bottom jigs to be slightly out of line, at least with my set up. I tried to handle this by allowing one side to float on another piece of tubing, where a motor casing went through both the tubing and the fincan. The tubing was a good fit, but could still rotate freely, theory being it would properly line up with the other side. In reality, I don't think that's what actually happened.

Accordingly, on my next project I think I'm going to just suck it up and print a custom tank of a guide like yours.

Good luck with the flight!
 
Neutronium95 said:
I did a quick test assembly of my new tower this morning. Highperion fits pretty much perfectly. I designed this tower to work for 29-98mm rockets, and both 3 and 4 fin configurations. The lean is because of protruding bolt heads on the bottom.

View attachment 605422View attachment 605423

The uprights are 1.25" Aluminum tubes from a local metal supplier. I wanted 8 foot, but they only had 6 and 12 foot options, so I went with 6 foot. All of the flat metal parts were cut out of steel by SendCutSend. I'll post all of the part files in a new thread after BALLS, assuming I don't find any major problems with it when using it for the first time. I'll be flying a H13, K1103, and a KBA M3500R out of it, so I should have a pretty good ide of whether or not it'll work.
Click to expand...
Any chance you are willing to share the files for the tower?
 
jackiboi_11 said:
Hope you don’t mind me asking but is wet sanding when you sand before it’s dried?
Click to expand...

Typically, the sanding process involves multiple sessions with sandpaper getting progressively finer in grit. An example would be starting with 180 grit, then 220, then 400, etc.

For the exceptionally smooth finishes you see in those photos above, a person switches to 'wet or dry' sandpaper, which can be used (like the name implies) wetted with water or dry. If sanding wet, you're just dipping the sandpaper in a small bucket of water, then sanding, dipping in water frequently to clean the sandpaper.

Wet sanding usually starts at about 600 grit and goes up to 2000, which would be super-fine sandpaper.

All sanding, whether wet or dry, is done when the paint itself is completely dry.

For what it's worth, a reasonably smooth finish may be obtained without wet sanding. The rocket pictured below was sanded with 220 first, then 400, then 600 grit, all of it dry.

IMG_0698 (2).jpg
 
It flew today.

Good news: Boost was relatively straight, and it hit 18,102 feet.

Bad news: The parachute was damaged by the ejection charge, and it twisted up on descent, leading to a hard landing and a broken fin.

PXL_20230922_221123654.jpg


Moving forward, my goal is still an H14 flight at NSL West next year. I'm going to build a rocket to test this recovery system on. I really want to change to dual deploy on this
 
Neutronium95 said:
It flew today.

Good news: Boost was relatively straight, and it hit 18,102 feet.

Bad news: The parachute was damaged by the ejection charge, and it twisted up on descent, leading to a hard landing and a broken fin.

Moving forward, my goal is still an H14 flight at NSL West next year. I'm going to build a rocket to test this recovery system on. I really want to change to dual deploy on this
Click to expand...
Holy cow, @Neutronium95 !

18,102 ft is an amazing altitude, but you predicted that you could beat your initial 17,755 ft and you did !

Sorry about the 'chute damage and the tangle and your fin -- bad luck there !

What size chute did you end up flying ?

Hmmm ... an H14 is 240 N-sec in a 29x240 mm casing where the H13 is 'only' 211 N-sec in a 29x213 mm casing.

Trading 29 N-sec for an additional 27 mm motor length 'feels' like a great trade-off, especially when you'll be launching from 7,600 ft ( Alamosa ) -vs- 3900 ft ( Black Rock ).

Contratulations !

This has been a great project to follow !!

And now you've set a new goal post to aim for !!!

Thanks !

-- kjh

EDIT: p.s. your nose cone repair appears to have made the landing unscathed too !
 
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Neutronium95 said:
It flew today.

Good news: Boost was relatively straight, and it hit 18,102 feet.

Bad news: The parachute was damaged by the ejection charge, and it twisted up on descent, leading to a hard landing and a broken fin.

Moving forward, my goal is still an H14 flight at NSL West next year. I'm going to build a rocket to test this recovery system on. I really want to change to dual deploy on this
Click to expand...

You can make the R&D mule program easier on yourself by buying just the empty H13 case as a component and using it as an airframe with 24mm power so you can get more flights on the recovery system without having to build a new rocket for each flight:

https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/details/p1577809_20536419.aspx
https://d11fdyfhxcs9cr.cloudfront.net/templates/170652/myimages/h13st-p_rcs_assembly.pdf
 
That's an incredible flight. Congrats!

Jeremy Sim said:
Given this rockets is not "reusable" can I still be used for the H Record?
Click to expand...
I was told no to that question by the records committee before NSL this year. I asked for clarification on that & a couple other things once the new rules came out, but I haven't heard anything back...I haven't checked the website for updates either though.
 
GrouchoDuke said:
Jeremy Sim said:
Given this rockets is not "reusable" can I still be used for the H Record?
Click to expand...
I was told no to that question by the records committee before NSL this year. I asked for clarification on that & a couple other things once the new rules came out, but I haven't heard anything back...I haven't checked the website for updates either though.
Click to expand...
Gerald Meux (chair of the records committee) was in DFW tonight and had dinner with a few of us local rocketry folks. I asked him if flying cases - including DMS motors - were records-legal. He said they are. There should be no damage to the rocket though. So the popped fin would be a disqualification, but flying the DMS motor without a separate airframe would not be.
 
bad_idea said:
Gerald Meux (chair of the records committee) was in DFW tonight and had dinner with a few of us local rocketry folks. I asked him if flying cases - including DMS motors - were records-legal. He said they are. There should be no damage to the rocket though. So the popped fin would be a disqualification, but flying the DMS motor without a separate airframe would not be.
Click to expand...
He's the one that told me they weren't records-legal. I'd love to see official verbiage on this in the rules.
 

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