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Well, even if I don't get a visible blue flame, it'll still be a spectacular flight. Also, QCC Explorer is currently my favorite OOP Estes kit! I love seeing them with paint schemes that differ from the package art. Here's mine that has coincidentally only flown on E30s:

20190213_072117.jpg

 
I think you'll be okay because of your setup. The motors themselves should be consistent, so if one E15 doesn't light, it's a good bet the other won't either, and you won't have an off-center thrust. Just tossing that out there, as I have no direct experience with these motors. Your cluster profile has some fail safes built in, even if not ALL bases are covered (one motor lights or 3 light, or one of each type).

Checked out your build thread on my lunch break. Very nice looking rocket, and cool idea to launch the scotch.
 
Pretty!


Heh? E30 has 1 second burn time, it's pretty high in the air by that point (well, "high" relative to the rod). Or does the flame kind of disappear well before actual motor burnout?

Thats what I was getting at in my post also. The blue seems tonappear better in the higher pressure regions of the burn
 
The new Estes kits are pretty exciting to me.
They have a lot of neat stuff out for Space Corps and Expedition Mars
I am mostly a semi scale guy, but the new sci fi rockets are also getting my juices flowing.
Not too expensive
 
Pretty!


Heh? E30 has 1 second burn time, it's pretty high in the air by that point (well, "high" relative to the rod). Or does the flame kind of disappear well before actual motor burnout?

This is a little bit apples and oranges, but the CTI F36 has a clearly visible blue flame as it goes up. They’re pretty comparable average thrust so I would think the flames would be roughly similar.
 
I've been looking at these 3" mailing tubes all afternoon. They have some pretty deep grooves but I have a fair bit of epoxy I can fill them with, not sure if epoxy is good for that, but wood glue will shring and that's what I have on hand. Each is 28 inches long and weighs about 240 grams. When I did the scratch build I made a "coupler tube" first and then used that as a mandrel for rolling the body tube, so connecting them after trimming might be an issue. I'm still going to build my LPRs and I'm placing the order with Apogee. They'll send it when they can. But I can't resist playing with these things and seeing what I get. Immediately behind them is a stack of insulation foam that is leftover from the house build. Actually, I need to put some of it up in the ceiling still, just haven't done it. They feel pretty darn stiff, and 3" is a pretty good diameter. Maybe these might make a decent L1 kit? Not sure. Gonna find my hole saw here in a bit and see about making some cutouts for centering rings and baffles and anything else I decide to stuff down inside them. Done enough chores for today, I can have a little fun, right?
 
It will be a lot easier to get the tube smooth with Elmer’s Carpenters Wood Filler it epoxy mixed with micro balloons than with straight epoxy. The straight epoxy is harder than the tube so it’s hard to sand smooth and it doesn’t stay put very well.

I’ve seen people make couplers out of a piece of body tube with a sliver removed, but I haven’t done it myself so I can’t offer any experience there.
 
It will be a lot easier to get the tube smooth with Elmer’s Carpenters Wood Filler it epoxy mixed with micro balloons than with straight epoxy. The straight epoxy is harder than the tube so it’s hard to sand smooth and it doesn’t stay put very well.

I’ve seen people make couplers out of a piece of body tube with a sliver removed, but I haven’t done it myself so I can’t offer any experience there.

I'll keep that in mind. I had some wood filler around here somewhere so if I find it I might try that route. Have no microballoons on hand. This is a long-term project so maybe I'll wait till I acquire some better stuff, but I kinda want to spend these up, even if it ends of being a mock up. I wonder would automotive putty be a bad idea over cardboard? I found an old can and it still has a tube of hardener hiding in the lid, not sure if it's any good or not. Or maybe there's something else I can mix with my epoxy? I've tried sanded foam before and that made a mess more than anything else, plus it never cured right. You make a fair point about the sanding, I didn't think of that today.

With the couplers, I can't get a visual of how removing a layer or two would make it work. Perhaps cutting a piece open and taking a sliver off the length so that I can be compressed inside? There would surely be a little gap but I don't think that would be a huge issue on the inside of the body tube. ??? maybe. I'll keep looking around here.

I don't have a 3" hole saw (mine go up to 2 1/2) so I'll be thinking about that, too. I think I will glue up some foam boards tonight though. 15" sounds like a good size for a 3" tube. :p
 
Bondo spot and glazing putty is used quite often. (The one-part red stuff, not the two part woth hardener)

I use it after Ive laid the first coat of filler primer on the tube and let it dry fully
 
Bondo spot and glazing putty is used quite often. (The one-part red stuff, not the two part woth hardener)

I use it after Ive laid the first coat of filler primer on the tube and let it dry fully
Hmm. I actually have a tube of that stuff, or perhaps I used it. Funny I've only every used that for REALLY tiny little things, like deep scratches. I didn't know if cardboard wraps would qualify for it, which is why I mentioned the regular bondo. Usually my method is bondo the big spots, primer, then fix the rough bondo filler with the red stuff, so it seems funny to go straight to the spot filler, almost like overkill.

Or perhaps I'm overthinking the spirals. They are about 1/32" wide (1mm maybe, close) I was planning to fill them with something before doing much else with the exterior of the tube.
 
Heed Nytrunner's words. Spot and glazing putty is what folks use for this, not the two-part Bondo. It works well but stinks like crazy.

(Unless they're using something entirely different, like CWF or spackle or tons of filler/primer or whatever).
 
Heed Nytrunner's words. Spot and glazing putty is what folks use for this, not the two-part Bondo. It works well but stinks like crazy.

(Unless they're using something entirely different, like CWF or spackle or tons of filler/primer or whatever).
Oh I am, believe me, but also trying to keep runs to town minimum. I'll burn up $20 of gas to make a run, so I try not to make one-off trips. If I can find the putty I'll definitely use it. I wonder can it also be applied directly to the cardboard, or is this filling step better left till the fin slots are cut?

You mentioned spackle. I'm looking at about 3 gallons of joint compound and a half gallon of thin-set mortar sitting right here in the house, in visual range. I might do a quick search and see how that turns out for folks.
In the meantime, my Apogee order is placed, so the little bag of rocket parts should be on the way soon with some B motors. Kind of excited to get started, plus I have another tube here in the house for a small kit that I can maybe do something with. That one probably needs little to nothing for the grooves as they are hair thin. That's what I think of with spot filler.
 
I'll keep that in mind. I had some wood filler around here somewhere so if I find it I might try that route. Have no microballoons on hand. This is a long-term project so maybe I'll wait till I acquire some better stuff, but I kinda want to spend these up, even if it ends of being a mock up. I wonder would automotive putty be a bad idea over cardboard? I found an old can and it still has a tube of hardener hiding in the lid, not sure if it's any good or not. Or maybe there's something else I can mix with my epoxy? I've tried sanded foam before and that made a mess more than anything else, plus it never cured right. You make a fair point about the sanding, I didn't think of that today.

With the couplers, I can't get a visual of how removing a layer or two would make it work. Perhaps cutting a piece open and taking a sliver off the length so that I can be compressed inside? There would surely be a little gap but I don't think that would be a huge issue on the inside of the body tube. ??? maybe. I'll keep looking around here.

I don't have a 3" hole saw (mine go up to 2 1/2) so I'll be thinking about that, too. I think I will glue up some foam boards tonight though. 15" sounds like a good size for a 3" tube. :p

For the couplers, I was thinking about slicing it down the length twice so the length is just right when you put it in the tube. If you have parchment paper, you could use that to line the main tube when you glue/glass the inside of the coupler to keep it strong and round. For a 3" CR, you could probably cut it close enough to sand round with a jigsaw.
 
I used 3in mailing tubes & woodglue w/ a 38mm MMT for my L2. Big Daddy nosecone wasn't a perfect fit, but didn't require much adaptation either.
 
For the couplers, I was thinking about slicing it down the length twice so the length is just right when you put it in the tube. If you have parchment paper, you could use that to line the main tube when you glue/glass the inside of the coupler to keep it strong and round. For a 3" CR, you could probably cut it close enough to sand round with a jigsaw.
I had a similar idea with the rings. Thought about making a jig for my skillsaw but that idea hit a snag pretty quick. I have a roll of duct tape that is the perfect size for drawing templates, and I have some 1x oak laying around that I never used for anything. To heavy? A long 3-1/2" plank, maybe 4ft is a kilogram. I have a feeling it would be lighter than plywood and plenty strong. As far as fin material, I think I'm sol. Next time I'm at the hardware store I might pick up some 1/4" ply. Not looking forward to airfoiling those. The balsa for my LPR build will be much easier, hehe.

Still not resonating on the coupler. A picture might be needed. Basically cutting a piece of to length, then cutting that piece long-ways down the tube twice to remove a little sliver, probably less than 1/8". Is that what you mean? Cause that's what I'm thinking if I can't find a proper piece.

I blocked up three sheets of foam with Titebond, planning a wooden round bottom for it with a steel rod through the middle so I can turn it without it going wobbly. The last one I did was an inch thick and a couple inches long. This guy is almost 2' long. Might be a trick for my cordless drill. I use a rasp to get the rough shape and then take it down the rest of the way with sandpaper of varying grits.
 
I used 3in mailing tubes & woodglue w/ a 38mm MMT for my L2. Big Daddy nosecone wasn't a perfect fit, but didn't require much adaptation either.
Good to know. I'll keep it in mind. I saw a thread here somewhere about a NC that fit perfectly in the mailers.
Did you glass it for your L2 or was it plenty strong enough?
 
Sweet deal. I have a plan moving forward but always good to find another opinion, especially when I can see what's going on. This looks identical to my idea for cutting up the cardboard tubes. This vid definitely filled in a few gaps for me though. Thanks.
I'm also seriously considering joint compound as a pre-filler for my spirals. I'm not thinking about paint for a long time and they annoy me, so I want something in there. Using it on sheetrock works really well, and after thinking about it for a few minutes on the toilet, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. It's heavy, but they're just spirals. I can't imagine too much weight being added if they are filled right, unless you're using lead. Think I'm going ahead with that after I get the tube made.
Also considering making my cone slide over the rocket body instead of under... Guess maybe I should start a build thread on this? It won't be a fast build so I'm not sure if that's an issue. I never look at the dates when I see build threads from you guys.
 
Sweet deal. I have a plan moving forward but always good to find another opinion, especially when I can see what's going on. This looks identical to my idea for cutting up the cardboard tubes. This vid definitely filled in a few gaps for me though. Thanks.
I'm also seriously considering joint compound as a pre-filler for my spirals. I'm not thinking about paint for a long time and they annoy me, so I want something in there. Using it on sheetrock works really well, and after thinking about it for a few minutes on the toilet, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. It's heavy, but they're just spirals. I can't imagine too much weight being added if they are filled right, unless you're using lead. Think I'm going ahead with that after I get the tube made.
Also considering making my cone slide over the rocket body instead of under... Guess maybe I should start a build thread on this? It won't be a fast build so I'm not sure if that's an issue. I never look at the dates when I see build threads from you guys.
@Off Grid Gecko , I'd consider sealing the tube & then sand it before you use the joint compount. That way there it won't soak into the cardbard & it should make things lighter.
 
My L1 was a 3" mailing tube. Totally doable.
Couplers aren't that hard to make - John Coker has a good video on this:
CRs are usually made stronger than they need to be. If you can't cut/sand plywood, consider balsa or foamboard, but bulk it up well structurally - for example, consider two rings spaced maybe a half inch apart, but with 4-6 radial 'webs' of material connecting them.
 
My L1 was a 3" mailing tube. Totally doable.
Couplers aren't that hard to make - John Coker has a good video on this:
CRs are usually made stronger than they need to be. If you can't cut/sand plywood, consider balsa or foamboard, but bulk it up well structurally - for example, consider two rings spaced maybe a half inch apart, but with 4-6 radial 'webs' of material connecting them.


Thanks for the info. I weighed one of the oak disks and they come up to about 45g without material removed near the middle. They are each 0.75 inches thick, and I'm certain as strong or stronger than 1/2" plywood. I have a feeling they are a little lighter, but may be about the same weight. Oak is pretty tough wood, much tougher than balsa or basswood obviously.

@Greg Furtman :
Hadn't thought of that. The paper on drywall isn't sealed to my knowledge, and whatever makes the strong bond there I want to do the same. I could be wrong so I'm going to look into what coatings, if any, are applied to regular drywall. It may well be sealed because only 10-12" areas near the seems get the joint compound (and screw holes, of course). If the bond is better on bare paper then I'll go that route, if not I'll find some spray sealer.
Would outdoor silicone work? I have a can of stuff for tents and coats, but I'm almost certain it won't work for sealing a cardboard tube. I might have some other options laying around that will work better.
 
First coupler is done, first NC attempt is a no-go, at least for now. I'll probably take the easy route and just buy a nose cone. I can make smaller foam cones with my drill, but this giant chunk proved a bit too much for both myself and the drill. That may or may not stop me from trying again though :p

Can't wait till my LPR rocket pieces get here. I really don't feel like getting too carried away with a mailtube L1 rocket at the moment. I still may buy a kit, so I'm trying not to focus on the big tube, but I'll work on it here and there as I feel like it.
 
First coupler is done, first NC attempt is a no-go, at least for now. I'll probably take the easy route and just buy a nose cone. I can make smaller foam cones with my drill, but this giant chunk proved a bit too much for both myself and the drill. That may or may not stop me from trying again though :p

Can't wait till my LPR rocket pieces get here. I really don't feel like getting too carried away with a mailtube L1 rocket at the moment. I still may buy a kit, so I'm trying not to focus on the big tube, but I'll work on it here and there as I feel like it.

I've made a few large nose cones from extruded (pink or blue stuff, NOT beadboard) styrofoam. Check out construction sites, they often have scraps of foam large enough for rocketry use. Peel the vapor barrier off both sides, cut disks, apply a very thin layer of epoxy to BOTH sides of a disk, stack them.** Glue in the largest-diameter metal rod that will fit in your drill chuck. Carve off the corners to make the block very roughly cylindrical. Work at a fairly low speed at first, the blob of foam won't vibrate as much. Hold the file/sandpaper lightly against the work at first, to knock off the high spots; pressing hard against the work early on gives a cone that is anything but round.

Once the block is more or less cylindrical, begin sanding near the tip to bring the diameter down, and work your way to the shoulder, rather than working shoulder-to-tip. Tip-to-shoulder reduces the mass near the tip more quickly, reduces vibration and out-of-round.

**Glue joints must be perpendicular to the axis, not parallel. That is, don't cut and glue long rectangles to make the block. The technical term for the resulting nose cone is "lumpy".;)
***A nose cone can be made w/o a drill or lathe, though it takes more time and effort. Clamp the block, metal shaft horizontal, in a vise. Hold a strip of coarse sandpaper by the ends and use it the way that a shoeshine uses the buffing cloth (except that you do not spit on the nose cone). Rotate a quarter-turn or so, clamp again, sand some more, repeat. Slow, but it works; I've done it for smaller cones, 2" dia or thereabouts.

Best -- Terry
 
Thanks @prfesser
Yes the insulation foam is what I have, blue XPS, but mine doesn't have a plastic barrier on it. Just to note this somewhere while I'm at it in case anyone reads this wondering, it isn't very expensive to buy a 4x8 sheet.

One thing I messed up was gluing them along the long axis, a point I noted shortly after failure. I've only done a couple to this point and they have been very small, an inch in diameter or less. Starting at the tip might have helped too. I didn't really think about that part too much. I was starting to wonder if I'd need a tailstock for something this size.

The rasp is very rough but cuts the smaller foam blocks with ease as long as you go slow, but in fact the result is very fast. You have to leave enough room to sand out the little gouges though. Course, those small cones sand so quickly that I'll likely ditch the rasp on the next one and go straight to P60 sandpaper.

I used wood glue but didn't let it tak, and it was not as thin as I had hoped. Will take more time next time, or maybe I'll pick up a can of that 77 when the funds are right and I become more serious about a nose cone made from foam board. I can buy a plastic cone for 30-40 bucks that will work, found some on PML. Maybe it was 50. But in any case the point of this is to get a servicable cone on the cheap, not to mention my own sadistic longing to do everything by hand. You should see what I can do with just a hatchet. ;)

I did stick my cone back together after killing it, so I'll probably give that one another shot just for the funzies. Gotta find something to eat first, though. Worked late today at the day job and just getting home.

Thanks again for the very detailed post. What kind of sandpaper and glue do you use on yours?
 
Two batteries later, She's starting to smooth up. I cut her way back from my original 20" length before the explosion. Just used a piece of sandpaper to slice off the end. Going slower tonight. It took some time, but it really smoothed out. None of this lumpy you mentioned, but I am using a soft glue.

In case you are curious, the reinforcement is a solid oak circle that I cut to fit my tube, attached with epoxy, and there's a 1/4" threaded insert in the middle. I forget the name, maybe a T-clip? In that I have a 1/4" rod that I cut from a carriage bolt running as far into the foam as I could to leave a shank that bottoms out on my drill. The bolt and the nut cost 83 cents, the little clip I had leftover from the ongoing battle of the door-jamb on my house. I also have four 3" screws drilled into the plate and secured to both plate and foam with more epoxy. I didn't want any weakness because I've had too many of these little projects come loose from the centering rod before. Plus the 1/4" threaded hole will make a nice spot for an eye-bolt later, and the screws add about 30g of weight. Prolly not needed but compared to the rest of the 150g+ nose I figured it wouldn't hurt anything.

Still waiting on LPR parts. I have another package of facemask filters for work that's running late, so not sure when the rocket parts will get here.
 
Just thinking outside the box, for these big tubes with big deep spirals, why not just do a wrap with drawer liner self adhesive paper? Okay, you will have one tiny seam on one side, but seems like you could often fit this into the design.
You would need to cut out the attachments sites for fins and lug, but seems like a lot easier than fill and sand and fill and sand.
 

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