Help me figure out what went wrong here...

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Green Jello

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So I had finished my Madcow Piranha and I was pretty happy with the way the paintjob came out. Here are the paints that I used....

IMG_3648.jpgPaint_Orange.jpgPaint_White.jpg

After the paint was dry for a couple days, I applied the sticker I got from Mark. Everything looked beautiful. A few days later, I decided to clear coat the entire thing to protect the sticker and make it look more shiny. So I added this:

Paint_Clear.jpg

After the first light coat, this is what happened to the paint in a few areas: (linked for high res)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7801353/IMG_3669.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7801353/IMG_3671.JPG

Does anyone know what when wrong here? I mostly want to know because I want to clear coat my Wildman Jr. this week, and I'm terrified of the same thing happening to it.
 
If I had to guess I'd say the paint under neath wasn't quite dry yet before you applied the clear. This has happened to me in the past. A painter here will know the correct answer
 
That is the only thing I could think of, but it was inside at 70 degrees for like 6 days before I did the clear coat.
 
I use to inspect painted parts for aerospace applications. Sometimes I saw this, but not very often. I have seen it with lacquer and enamels being incompatible, i.e., you cannot paint lacquer on top of enamel or it will craze. I would suspect that although all of your paints were the same brand, the clear might be actually something different. I was just at the Rustoleum website and looked up the paints in the category of "Stops Rust" (YES, this paint is different from others and the "Stops Rust" label is your indicator. The clear in this category is actually an acrylic (like in enamel) lacquer. If yours is the same, then that is the source of your crazing. One could say it is labeled in-correctly but, for what they are trying to do, it could be accurate. Crazy, I know; if I am correct.
BEAR
 
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That would seem to me to be insufficient cure time on the color coat. I use the rule of thumb that if it still smells like paint, it hasn't thoroughly cured.

And with what Bear said, what are the ingredients of the clearcoat?
 
I use to inspect painted parts for aerospace applications. Sometimes I saw this, but not very often. I have seen it with lacquer and enamels being incompatible, i.e., you cannot paint lacquer on top of enamel or it will craze. I would suspect that although all of your paints were the same brand, the clear might be actually something different. I was just at the Rustoleum website and looked up the paints in the category of "Stops Rust" (YES, this paint is different from others and the "Stops Rust" label is your indicator. The clear in this category is actually and acrylic (like in enamel) lacquer. If yours is the same, then that is the source of your crazing. One could day it is labeled in-correctly but, for what they are trying to do, it could be accurate. Crazy, I know; if I am correct.
BEAR

I also have a can of this at home. Are you saying this shouldn't be used on top of enamels either?

https://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=377
 
My recommendation would be if you want to make 100% sure you do not get any wrinkling on any projects you wish to clear coat don't use the crap. I used it once about 14 years ago on my Estes Phoenix to protect the waterslide decals, paint was fine, decals wrinkled to hell. That was my first and last time bothering with clear coat. Since then I put a coat or 2 of Nu Finish on my rockets. Shines and protects them nicely.

BTW, works with all paints!!Rockets - Paint.jpg
 
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Have you used the Nu Finish over vinyl decals from Stickershock? Protecting that sticker is the main reason why I want to clear coat.
 
I had that happen with a rocket recently same brands. I also had it happen on a pinewood derby car - luckily I was able to fix it in both cases. By sanding!

Nu Finish may be in my future. I've heard about Future - what's the Nu Finish stuff?
 
Everything on those rockets below the nose cones in the pics. are vinyl. They have landed in corn stuble, hard clay fields, etc. If your worried about them coming off during flight, that won't happen. Then again I have no idea what the speed of vinyl is. Rockets have a rough life, if you land on something that's going to scratch it bad or worse, well no polish or clear coat will make a differance anyway.

Nu Finish is a polish, not wax.
 
Krylon clear coat does the same thing to Krylon colors. My problem was using too much at one time. It shouldn't crack like that if you go with a number of light coats. As far as protecting the decals maybe you should look into Microscale Industries. LW gave me some of their products just for setting decals and and such. I will admit, I'm just now starting to use them but it's something you could look into.
 
I also have a can of this at home. Are you saying this shouldn't be used on top of enamels either?

https://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=377

The first ingredient listed on the MSDS for that product is acetone, 30%. That'll probably soften/wrinkle just about anything if it's not fully cured. The red paint has 35% acetone listed as the first ingredient.

Paint a test piece, let it sit for two weeks and then try the clear coat.
 
Krylon clear coat does the same thing to Krylon colors. My problem was using too much at one time. It shouldn't crack like that if you go with a number of light coats. As far as protecting the decals maybe you should look into Microscale Industries. LW gave me some of their products just for setting decals and and such. I will admit, I'm just now starting to use them but it's something you could look into.

I think you have it.This may happen if you apply the clear coat too heavy ,light ,multiple coats are the key ,and plenty of them.

I love the Krylon clears ,but again, multiple light coats.The clear coat could be attacking and re-softening the underlying color coat.



Paul t
 
When using clear finish, use a lot of very light coats till it has a heavier coat. Then you can spray on a heavy coat that should not go through to the color layer, but try this next thing. I sometimes make molds out of plaster of Paris. I have to take Future Floor Wax and fill in the pores in the plaster to get a really smooth finish so I can cast polyester resin, or epoxy into custom shapes. You brush it in to your mold and let it dry. I would suggest that for your clear coat over your decals you use something like the Future Floor Wax or something like McGuiars Hand Paste Wax for your cars and use it on your rocket. Buff it when dry and watch it shine. It has worked for me in the past.
BEAR
 
If I had to guess I'd say the paint under neath wasn't quite dry yet before you applied the clear. This has happened to me in the past. A painter here will know the correct answer

MV most likely hit the nail on the head----one thing we all do --or at least are guilty of---is rush our paint. I think I've said this before but it bears repeating--it's like fishing--when you think your working the lure slow enough--your going too fast! You can spray over wet paint with clear with no problem. If you wait for it to dry enough to apply decals, let it set 2 or more days before putting on clear . Even then do it in lite initial coats and then let them tack off or even dry for a few hours. Then spray a couple of wet coats. The top coat will rewet the lower coat--that is less likely to happen with a long dry time on the color coat. It happens to everybody sooner or later. Moist sand the areas down --just enough to knock down the raised areas--reprime with some primer filler--let it dry and shrink--moist sand and respray--let set for a while and reclear---you'll be good as gold---H
 
Well... you did the ultimate cardinal sin.... you mixed 3 different types of paint. Matters not they are all the same brand. Stick with the same type.I.E. If using Painters Touch...primer, finish & clear should be Painters Touch. The only clear I have used on anything[that I painted] is Dupli-Color that could cross brands with out issue. But I have not used it on every type of paint.

I was a commercial painting contractor for 30+ years [actually was referred to as "coating specialist"]
Coated everything from million dollar yachts to log cabins.

Every brand recommends a 'system for any particular use. It is even more important today as the formulas change like the wind with every new regulation. I could go on & on, but you get the point.

Second it could have cured for months & wouldn't have mattered when too heavy of a coat has the volatiles attacking the underlying surface. It will melt & pull the surface into wrinkles.

It seems to happen worse at fillets because usually that's where everyone "overlaps" twice, from painting the fins & the body tube. You get a heavier area or thickness of paint which is ripe for attack from the clear anyhow, let alone from incompatible paint. Just by seeing your pics....it looks like the problem is in fillet area & along bottom/rear of fins, most likely due to collecting there.

Heck...I've been in a hurry & done it myself...full well knowing better. As stated the best way to beat the odds is to fog a couple of light coats on the surface, let them dry. Then hit the final with steady motion, starting at one fin tip, going to fillet, then up & down the entire tube,across the next fin, around the other side of fin, up & down tube etc.etc. til done with clear. This way there is no backtracking or overloading in any area.

I did a special thread with step by step pics on priming, sanding, painting,clear coating, taping, 2-3 colors, making your own decals and applying them. It's a darn shame that was lost to Rocketry Planets demise. I can't reproduce it here cause all those pics were on a different computer that crashed & burned.



..............................................................................................................
I have painted rockets COMPLETELY in as few as 4hrs. from raw to clear coated, 3 colors. taped off for lines, all with Rusto paints. Sanded between coats [wet is how you beat that one]

Here's a quick rundown on how I did it in 45-50 degree weather to boot. But I painted in the Sun ! How you beat the low temps.

Shot light coat primer over fillets. Spot puttied flaws.
waited 15 minutes, wet-sanded...fogged another coat, just enough to see any flaws.
spot puttied again, sanded again.... dry sanding would have loaded paper.

Fog coated entire rocket [3in Wildman] painting vertically once around, then hit it again. [about 1hr has gone by.] lightly sanded.

Taped off fin tips and area to be painted flour orange later, covered with paper [10 min.]

Shot metallic blue on lower fincan, 3 coats [15 minutes] waited 15 for paint to be dry to touch.
Removed paper, but left tape line over the white primer. [this will become a stripe later]
Reversed paper to cover painted blue areas and shot flour. orange on everything else,including fin tips! another 1hour has gone by.

Now I have to wait about half hour, the orange will pull up if ya don't, it's a soft finish.
I carefully run a razor around the paint/tape lines so it pulls up clean.
I now have a blue fincan ...white primer stripe between that and the orange part of fincan, all the upper stuff is orange too. Even have nice 1/4 white primer pinstripes between blue fins and orange tips!.

Immediately spray 2 fog coats of clear, as soon as they tack up, hit it with 2 heavy coats & I'm done in 4-4.5 hrs...... Clear turns white primer stripes into gloss finish white stripes.

Well almost...I lied...forgot about the black on NC tip. I did that the next day. lol

Here is said rocket ready for the Xmas photo's opps for website. All decals were cut out of sheet goods, from Michel's and hand applied.

Yes I forgot the quick link, but some digging and it lived to fly another day. I still have it...My favorite all time rocket....chopped.. dropped Wildman 3 only weighs 6.5lbs and will spank any other!

So yes... waiting for paint to dry is NOT always needed & yes this was the new formulations in paint.

attachment-12.jpg

100_2803.jpg
 
Thanks so much CJ. I knew about the problems mixing lacquers and enamels, so I didn't worry about the series of paint because they were all enamels. So much for that theory. :eyeroll:
 
Have you used the Nu Finish over vinyl decals from Stickershock? Protecting that sticker is the main reason why I want to clear coat.

Jello:
I have to tell you if your using any rattle can Clear as a protective coating you are wasting your time! Clear coats become very brittle shortly after application. minor bumps, handling and just riding around in the car will cause clear coats to crack, chip and flake off sometimes taking a bit of the underlaying decal or sticker with it. Future is the MUCH better choice as is a couple coats of Nu-Finish Polymer.

As for your wrinkling did you do the "sniff Test"? That is with your nose Placed on the surface of the model could you still smell Paint? If so the previous coat(s) are not dry. depending on humidity and temperature it can take WEEKS for multi-coated painted surfaces to dry enough for clear overcoating.
Hope this little trick helps.
 
I didn't sniff the rocket. I was just assuming that nearly a week at room temperature was enough. I'm done with the paint job on the Wildman now and I'm pretty nervous about this. I may just ditch the whole thing and go with one of the floor polishes.
 
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