Good points. You're probably correct!
Firearms Safety In The Entertainment Industry
- Thread starter K'Tesh
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If it were up to me I might rule that a producer should be acutely aware of the risks incurred by combining the armorer and propmaster jobs. I’m also curious as to whether he knew about the live rounds on the set and the gun being able to accept them. If he did, failing to put 2 and 2 together would be negligent in my opinion.
That's what gets me. Something just stinks, and it seems like because he's Big Time, the stink will never stick to him.
If the armorer had been doing her job the way she was supposed to then what he did would have carried no risk at all.
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Way back at the start of this it was reported in multiple outlets that she has a history of basic negligence (whether because of lack of knowledge or simple incompetence is up for debate) on set, with several complaints lodged against her. What is pretty clear, though, is that nepotism was in full effect, with her trading on her last name and her father's accomplishments vice her actual demonstrated knowledge, skills, and abilities. Her trial is likely to end in her conviction.
I also thought that I read they were shooting live rounds on the set with said gun.
They were. That should never be allowed, there’s no need for it.
Yes, and the producer is ultimately responsible for that. And, as far as I know, he was there and knew about the live rounds (I am willing to be corrected). This is not like Jeff Bezos and some middle manager in East Podunk... he should have reviewed her record, likely even interviewed and hired her. Others has walked off due to safety concerns and the way things were bring run. That's on him, as far as I'm concerned, full stop. For him to go on TV and say he felt no guilt over her death at all is reprehensible.
Exactly. I might not be so hard on him if he'd taken some manner of responsibility, and if in general he wasn't so d*****d full of himself.
History of basic negligence??? This was only her second job, wasn't it?
He's got the money to hire better lawyers than the armourer so yeah the odds are very much in his favour of walking away with a simple bloody nose.
However, if this moves forward he may just plead down since he may not want damning details brought up in any trial.
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Second job as primary, I believe, but there were all sorts of complaints and walk-offs due to safety violations on her previous as primary, and reported misconduct on her jobs before that that are similar to what happened here (unaccounted for and improper usage of firearms, mix up of blanks/hero ammo/props, poorly kept logs of inspections, etc). That's what you would call a pattern of behavior, and if true, is not going to go well for her at trial or sentencing (if it doesn't get to plea before that)!
Let's also not forget that it's been reported that there were no union members on the call sheet for the day, and that production attempted to minimize the use of union folks.......and thereby de facto intentionally skirting union safeguards.
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So combine that with the 2 misfires on set, you think Baldwin and the other producers would have fired her before it came to this?
dr wogz
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unions or not, I would expect a certain level of safeguards in place, just by common sense / courtesy..
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Well documented and reported that what safeguards there were in place were basically ignored by all.
And none were even sufficient to meet any industry norms or minimums.
And thus the direct culpability of the armorer in question.
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Alec will be cleared of any crimes, that’s just how it works. Civil suits will be an issue but an Actor is not responsible for the gun. The Armorer and Assistant Director ( already took plea) are criminally liable. You may not agree or understand, but that’s how it is. I’m on year 24 in the Film Biz and this is why I won’t work on non- Union films or anything low budget, it’s can be a dangerous business. We’re on Season 11, have fired 10s of thousands of rounds, no accidents or even incidents.
There were 5 safeguards in place, 2 people chose to ignore all of them. Film work can be dangerous, and the most qualified people are usually in a Union which is not easy to get into for most. Took me 5 years of 18 hour days and zero mistakes to get in. I don’t recommend it to anyone. I do love it however, it’s the Coolest job I can think of.
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Further developments. Looks like the armorer is headed to trial soon.
https://www.breitbart.com/entertain...ive-ammunition-got-on-alec-baldwins-rust-set/
https://www.breitbart.com/entertain...ive-ammunition-got-on-alec-baldwins-rust-set/
There are so many people in this world that are so mixed up in their head about who should take the blame for things. etc.; I'm better than you, I'm entitled to this, it's not my fault, and so on. And the people that allow them to get away with that!
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Recent news. Doesn't look good for the armorer.
https://deadline.com/2024/02/rust-armorer-trial-latest-1235838920/
https://deadline.com/2024/02/rust-armorer-trial-latest-1235838920/
I've been watching some of the testimony. In a nutshell, NOBODY knows how live rounds got on set or at least no proof of how this happened. It was proven that PDQ's dummy rounds which had a different appearance did no appear on set until 2 days prior to filming but the live rounds were already on set. So in all likelihood, HG brought them to set with her kit but it can't be proven. Hannah Gutierrez's father, is actually her step-father (at least 50 yrs older than her) and a well known Armourer himself. He is on the witness list, probably a character witness to verify her training. This was only her second film as lead. Ammo and firearms were provided by PDQ Arm & Prop who had a long standing professional relationship with her step-father and recommended HG to the producers (can you say nepotism?). Some of the ammo came from the set of 1883 (Taylor Sheridan, producer) and some was carried over from HG's previous film, The Old Way with Nicolas Cage, were 2 misfire incidents also occurred. On 1883, live rounds were used during special closed practise. HG's civil lawsuit against PDQ was dropped.
HG was probably taking drugs (i.e. cocaine) although the defense left some doubt as to whether the substance the Craft Services lady threw away was actually cocaine (HG asked her to hold it for her then asked for "her stuff" back later on). HG was unprofessional and amateurish in her maintenance of the firearms and ammunition on set and did not control the actors mishandling of the firearms on set. HG initially got 5 days for her time on set which was extended to 10 days but was refused additional training time to work with the actors and especially refused training time with the child actor. She had ample time to verify by shaking which rounds were dummies and which rounds were suspect but according to the Props Master was never observed actually doing that on set. The Props Master, who had zero experience with firearms prior to this production, was given responsibilities she should not have performed and was not trained properly by HG. Her inexperience directly led to a mis-fire of Baldwin's firearm on set but this was not reported up the chain of command. She also ignorantly disposed of spent blanks and dummy rounds in the garbage, which means she tampered with evidence, probably while in a panic.
HG and the Prop Master had a weird working relationship on set; HG was the Prop Master's boss when acting as the Armourer but the Prop Master was the boss when it HG was acting as Prop's Assistant. The management of film (i.e. producers, line producer, 1st AD, and production designer) mismanaged the production, paid lip service to safety, conflated the roles of the Armourer and Prop Master due to budget constraints, hired inexperienced staff, and did not permit them to fulfill their jobs correctly. The film production company was fined$100,000 by OSHA (correction, they were fined $136k which was the max amount) but did not single out the specific staff and fine them. 1st AD and the Props Master have agreements with the Prosecution that they would testify in exchange for not being prosecuted themselves. Correction: the 1st AD pleaded guilty to a misdemeanour charge. After the incident there was mass panic and confusion with NOBODY taking charge until the cops and medics got to site. According to a private investigator, who was previously a cop, the entire scene and investigation was mismanaged by the police, even with them handling evidence with bare hands and none of the cell phones on set were secured. The firearm was damaged during testing without 3rd party or defense attorney's awareness.
Lots of blame to go around here. IMHO, the Armourer Hannah Gutierrez will be found guilty. The trial of Alec Baldwin will happen in July and he should be found guilty although the other producers should also get stung as well if there is any justice in this world. There will be a heightened awareness in the film industry and procedures will change. The unions and guilds will come out with additional guidelines and rules. MAYBE future incidents like this can be avoided???
HG was probably taking drugs (i.e. cocaine) although the defense left some doubt as to whether the substance the Craft Services lady threw away was actually cocaine (HG asked her to hold it for her then asked for "her stuff" back later on). HG was unprofessional and amateurish in her maintenance of the firearms and ammunition on set and did not control the actors mishandling of the firearms on set. HG initially got 5 days for her time on set which was extended to 10 days but was refused additional training time to work with the actors and especially refused training time with the child actor. She had ample time to verify by shaking which rounds were dummies and which rounds were suspect but according to the Props Master was never observed actually doing that on set. The Props Master, who had zero experience with firearms prior to this production, was given responsibilities she should not have performed and was not trained properly by HG. Her inexperience directly led to a mis-fire of Baldwin's firearm on set but this was not reported up the chain of command. She also ignorantly disposed of spent blanks and dummy rounds in the garbage, which means she tampered with evidence, probably while in a panic.
HG and the Prop Master had a weird working relationship on set; HG was the Prop Master's boss when acting as the Armourer but the Prop Master was the boss when it HG was acting as Prop's Assistant. The management of film (i.e. producers, line producer, 1st AD, and production designer) mismanaged the production, paid lip service to safety, conflated the roles of the Armourer and Prop Master due to budget constraints, hired inexperienced staff, and did not permit them to fulfill their jobs correctly. The film production company was fined
Lots of blame to go around here. IMHO, the Armourer Hannah Gutierrez will be found guilty. The trial of Alec Baldwin will happen in July and he should be found guilty although the other producers should also get stung as well if there is any justice in this world. There will be a heightened awareness in the film industry and procedures will change. The unions and guilds will come out with additional guidelines and rules. MAYBE future incidents like this can be avoided???
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Many knowledgeable people have opined that if existing procedures, guidelines and rules had been followed, then for sure this incident would not have occurred. There is no need for changing "the rules." What competent people already do now works, and works well.
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Hmm, that's what they said after Brandon Lee (The Crow) was killed on set. Since then rules were changed but apparently not always followed either. Preventing incompetent people from being on set should be a focus of future productions.
Full disclosure: I have some experience in film production and was employed as a Set Designer on a half dozen projects with only a minimal time actually on set.
Well, that went down faster than I thought.... Hannah Gutierrez was convicted of involuntary manslaughter but not guilty of evidence tampering. Presumably because the evidence of proof that it was actually cocaine she passed off. She faces up to 18 months in prison in addition to a $5,000 fine.
I don't think there is any excuse for this. The type of weapons they are using aren't exactly rocket science to deal with. I don't know how much control she can have over what the actors do but she could certainly teach them the way to do it. If an actor still refuses to handle the weapons properly she could complain to the producer which might or might not help.
Not having listened to the testimony or seeing the evidence, there is still the question of where the live ammunition came from. If an actor or another crew member puts one in the firearm is the armorer liable for that? If she is responsible for handing the firearm to the actor and she didn't catch that it contains live ammunition then for sure she would be guilty. If she is using drugs on set that probably doesn't help.
I told you Alec wouldn't be charged. Next time believe the expert with decades of experience. None of us in the Film Industry were surprised by the conviction of the Armorer, we expected this since day 1. I'm glad she was Convicted, her actions have made our difficult job just a little bit harder despite a perfect safety record on our 11 year show.
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WOW!!! I thought Baldwins trial was labeled as #2. In fact I just saw that 2 minutes ago. pretty sure you have to be charged to have a trial. Maybe the expert that was quoted is an idi@t.
