Drill Press Runout

[m85476585]

I just got a drill press form Harbor Freight. It was on sale for $40 and I had a 15% off coupon, so I figured it was a good enough deal. Setup went OK, but when I went to try it I noticed a lot of wobble using a 1/2" bit (I didn't try any others yet, but it's a new bit. I'll try a 1/2" steel rod later). I took the chuck off and I couldn't feel any runout on the spindle. Since I don't have a dial indicator I put my fingernail against the spindle as it was spinning to check it. I tried to reinstall the chuck, and it helped until I tried to put a circle cutter on it (very wobbly), and now it is back to the way it was.

Is there any way to fix the runout? Could the chuck be bad? There is no noticeable runout near the jaws of the chuck, but the outside (where you would hold it to tighten or loosen) wobbles a lot when it spins.

I need to return the circle cutter (it was completely inaccurate because the cross bar could move at least 1/16" even with the blades tightened on, so it would sometimes cut a double circle), so maybe I will exchange it for a dial indicator.

 

[Shade]

First of all where are you at?

I would be willing to send you a peice of drill rod that is straight.

However to give you some things to investigate.

1) with a HF drill press the chuck is the most likely culprit.
2) the next is likely the taper on the end of the shaft typically these are a JT taper, It is most likely improperly ground at the factory.
3) in the import presses they use ball bearing so no adjust can be made to them

I suggest getting a dial indicator and some drill rod. www.use-enco.com is a good source on the net.

Indicate the drill rod. Then remove the chuck from the drill press and indicate in the taper.

That will let you know what it is.

 

[bigone5500]

Try and exchange the press?? Maybe the spindle is bad. I would think for $40 it would be a good drill press for projects that don't require much accuracy, but then again I bought a pair of digital calipers for $20 and they are right on...:surprised: Then again I have seen some $500 presses that are just plain junk...

That's just my outlook on it...

P.S. - Welcome to the forum Ron!

 

[Shade]

P.S. - Welcome to the forum Ron!

Thanks!

BTW, you are all welcome over in my little corner of the www.....


www.shopfloortalk.com

 

[m85476585]

Try and exchange the press?? Maybe the spindle is bad. I would think for $40 it would be a good drill press for projects that don't require much accuracy, but then again I bought a pair of digital calipers for $20 and they are right on...:surprised: Then again I have seen some $500 presses that are just plain junk...

That's just my outlook on it...

P.S. - Welcome to the forum Ron!

I don't think it is the spindle (But I can't be sure until I measure it). I'd rather not exchange it because Harbor Freight is about 45 minutes away, and there is always a risk that another one will be worse, or broken in some other way.


Edit: Where can I get a good circle cutter?

 

[bigone5500]

Edit: Where can I get a good circle cutter?

I have seen others using the kind like Lowe's or Home Depot is supposed to have although I haven't seen any there. I have however seen them on eBay ... Try this link: https://cgi.ebay.com/GENERAL-CIRCLE...8QQihZ005QQcategoryZ50384QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A guy at work has a cutter that mounts in a drill press or milling machine and uses a carbide bit. I think it's called a fly cutter...?

 

[Shade]

I have seen others using the kind like Lowe's or Home Depot is supposed to have although I haven't seen any there. I have however seen them on eBay ... Try this link: https://cgi.ebay.com/GENERAL-CIRCLE...8QQihZ005QQcategoryZ50384QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A guy at work has a cutter that mounts in a drill press or milling machine and uses a carbide bit. I think it's called a fly cutter...?

I had one of the General cutter once, it is a POS. I was cutting aluminum sheet with it. I had the material well clamped on my Bridgeport mill and the HSS tool bit would not stay tight, might would if you are cutting wood or other "softer" material but I am guessing you would still want to accurate. I now have a couple of these.

www.use-enco.com

255-3030
225-3040
225-3035

And if you have an R8 spindle

225-3010

The tool bits can be found on page 98 in Enco's catalog.

BTW, You never want to use a carbide tool in this type of cutter.

 

[ben]

matt go to Sears and get a fly cutter. $25 and worth it. I sharpened my blade once and its good to go. up to 6" circles

Ben

 

[m85476585]

I had one of the General cutter once, it is a POS. I was cutting aluminum sheet with it. I had the material well clamped on my Bridgeport mill and the HSS tool bit would not stay tight, might would if you are cutting wood or other "softer" material but I am guessing you would still want to accurate. I now have a couple of these.

www.use-enco.com

255-3030
225-3040
225-3035

And if you have an R8 spindle

225-3010

The tool bits can be found on page 98 in Enco's catalog.

BTW, You never want to use a carbide tool in this type of cutter.

I don't see how those would work for centering rings, and since I only need to cut plywood they are probably overkill.

 

[Shade]

I don't see how those would work for centering rings, and since I only need to cut plywood they are probably overkill.

You can grind a notch in the tool to fit your needs, I have used mine for trepanning they are very stable.

 

[Micromeister]

I'd try to exchange it: sound bad to me.
I've been using a Harbor Freight drill press for about 10 years with just about every kind of bit and cutters you can think of. My bench top 10speed doesn't have any run out at all!
I wouldn't play around with it for a minute, take it back and exchange it for another I'm sure you'll find be a lot happier in the long run

 

[m85476585]

I think I'll wait for the drill rod from Shade before I try to exchange it.

I wasn't expecting much from such a cheap drill, but is a new one likely to be any better?

 

[JoesRocketry]

FYI,

I just bought the same model drill press at a Harbor Frieght and it doesn't seem to have any runout at all.

 

[Pat Butler]

I've been looking at some of the lower end drill presses from HF as well as Delta. I haven't been pleased with the runout on any of them that I've seen in the store. I've been pretty much resigned to the opinion that the lower end presses just aren't made that great.

I have a 50 year old Atlas drill press that is built like a tank. My initial concern is that it's difficult to find replacement parts; though some are available on EBay. I finally found a local machine shop that can make me replacement parts, so I'll probably stick with the Atlas.

You might try to replace the chuck, but if it's otherwise a problem with the bearings or spindle then it's pretty much a lost cause. Interstingly enough, the HF drill presses seem to have pretty decent chucks.

 

[narmember]

You do know, if you call that customer service number, they will likely send you a replacement chuck? Of course, if it isn't the chuck,...

 

[judo]

I'm a doctor, not a machinist!

Seriously, what is "runout?"

 

[RimfireJim]

Runout, in the context of a drill press, is the error from running true. The "wobble" at the drill bit, if you will. Very hard to define w/o illustrations. This might help: https://www.tec-ease.com/tips/march-98.htm

Runout is a combination of circularity and coaxiality errors. The former is the error of the surface from being a true circle; the latter is the error due that quasi-circle being off-center of the axis of rotation. On a drill press, errors that cause the axis of the chuck to be at an angle to the axis of the spindle will create more runout measured at some distance from the chuck than measured right at the chuck. The usual test for measuring runout on a drill press is to chuck up a piece of drill rod and measure the runout (with a dial indicator riding on the cylindrical face of the drill rod) at both the chuck and at some distance from the chuck, then remove and reseat the chuck in a new position with respect to the spindle, and remeasure. If the results are the same for both tests, all the error is in the chuck; if they differ, some of the error is due to the spindle and some due to the chuck. The inherent assumption is that any error due to the drill rod itself is negligible.

Re. a drill press "not having any runout at all": I gotta call BS on that. All machine tools have runout. It's just a matter of magnitude, and your ability or desire to measure it. There may be so little runout that you can't see it or detect it with a dial indicator with a certain resolution, and it may be so little that for your purposes it is inconsequential, but there is still some runout. Ultra-precision machine shops spend big bucks on reducing runout and other tolerances (and on measuring them), but can't eliminate them entirely.

 

[aerospike]

Sounds like you got a $40 drill press. What's the problem again?

 

[JoesRocketry]

"Re. a drill press "not having any runout at all": I gotta call BS on that. All machine tools have runout. It's just a matter of magnitude, and your ability or desire to measure it. There may be so little runout that you can't see it or detect it with a dial indicator with a certain resolution, and it may be so little that for your purposes it is inconsequential, but there is still some runout. Ultra-precision machine shops spend big bucks on reducing runout and other tolerances (and on measuring them), but can't eliminate them entirely."

Let me rephrase my above statement... it has no noticable runout that affects the hole drilled. I did not mean to imply that the tool is perfect, because it is not and i din't mean to imply that the runout has a magnitude of zero. I'm sure that if I actually measured it, I would find some runout, but not enough to affect my uses or the uses of most people on this forum.

 

[m85476585]

I don't expect it to be perfect, and even a few thousandths of an inch is OK, but right now at the end of the 1/2" bit I'm seeing between .5mm and 1mm runout. Since I don't have any way to measure it yet, I'm just estimating. I'm going to exchange the circle cutter for a dial indicator this weekend to try to determine whether the chuck or the spindle (or both) is bad. Then I'll either exchange it, try to get a new chuck form the customer service number, or return it and buy a name brand drill press.

 

[m85476585]

I got the dial indicator. The runout at the bottom of the spindle is less than .001", closer to .0005" (but I'm estimating). .0005 is the difference between the maximum and minimum needle positions (instead of .0005 each way, which would be a total of .1") The runout on the bit near the jaws of the chuck is about .010", so I think the chuck is bad. Should I buy a new chuck or try to get one from the customer service number (or exchange the whole drill press)?

 

[m85476585]

I tried it one more time. I reseated the chuck, and tried some different bits. It looks like my 1/2" bit is actually bent a little. The 3/8" bit from the same set still had some runout, maybe .005", but it wasn't too bad. The other bits were the same (but as they got shorter the problem was less noticeable). I also tried a 3/8" bit from a really old set, and it looks a lot better because the outside is round instead of shaped. I still need to try drilling metal with it, and I'm also going to check it with the drill rod Shade is sending me, but I think I'm keeping the drill press.