Dr Zooch Soyuz build (Completed!)

[gdjsky01]

Hope not a double post


OL JR is another of those TRFers I am sure I could spend hours on porch learning from, jaw boning with, and arguing with. But OL JR seems to me, one way or another, agree, or sometimes not, is alway worth listening to.

 

[luke strawwalker]

Not sure what rocket it was.. but I remember seeing a launch video, and as the rocket was rising you could see "smoke rings" of frost around the exterior of it, it made it look like it had saturn rings. I think it was either a Mercury Redstone or a Saturn V, either way it was very surreal looking

Yep, Saturn V's unleashed a veritable BLIZZARD of frost/snow/ice when those big F-1's fired up and started vibrating the thing...

Atlas produced some pretty good ice showers too... Have you ever seen the videos from Spacecraft Films called "The Mighty Saturns-- Saturn V and Saturn IB?" Those videos are amazing... pad videos of the liftoffs from various angles, tracking camera videos, heck even videos from inside the liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen tanks, even in orbit in zero gee... REALLY cool stuff... staging vids, the works.

I think I've seen that effect before... not sure which rocket it was, but it must have been in still air, because it was like a fog hanging around the rocket like a shroud, and it lifted off right through it and left it behind, until it got sucked into the low pressure area around the engines as it lifted off...

Really neat stuff...

Sorry for the mega post, but I figured that if you really wanted to improve your game when it comes to balsa cones and transitions, I'd give you the information to do it. At least, how *I* do it, and there's plenty of folks around here who'll tell you it works and works very well... There's other ways to do it, but honestly most of them seem much harder or use much more volatile, expensive, and difficult/stinky materials to work with (like sanding sealer/dope, epoxy, etc...)

Later! OL JR

 

[luke strawwalker]

Hope not a double post


OL JR is another of those TRFers I am sure I could spend hours on porch learning from, jaw boning with, and arguing with. But OL JR seems to me, one way or another, agree, or sometimes not, is alway worth listening to.

Thanks Jeff... I always enjoy your builds...

Got anything TLP in the works?? One of these days I need to finish my TLP Maverick-- she's pretty well done constructionwise, but she's nekkid... need decals!

Later! OL JR

 

[Fred Garvin]

...Have you ever seen the videos from Spacecraft Films called "The Mighty Saturns-- Saturn V and Saturn IB?"....

In my Netflix queue....all the spaceflight series are...but the next 6 are The Mighty Saturns...the 3 disk 1 and 1B, and the 3 disk V....can't wait!

.....Sorry for the mega post, but I figured that if you really wanted to improve your game when it comes to balsa cones and transitions, I'd give you the information to do it. ....

Brain Drains like this are one of the things that make TRF such a great place and incredible resource for all of us.....never apologize for being a leading content creator.....

 

[luke strawwalker]

In my Netflix queue....all the spaceflight series are...but the next 6 are The Mighty Saturns...the 3 disk 1 and 1B, and the 3 disk V....can't wait!



Brain Drains like this are one of the things that make TRF such a great place and incredible resource for all of us.....never apologize for being a leading content creator.....

Thanks... just tryin to "pass it on"... I've learned a LOT here over the years too...

Hoo boy... man oh man are you in for a treat on those "Mighty Saturns" videos...

I've been buying them as I can-- I have the Project Mercury and Project Gemini ones, the X-15 and "Liftoff" one (with lots of great footage of early missile and rocket tests that blew up) and a few of the Apollo mission ones... It's a shame that Spacecraft Films themselves are SO hit-n-miss to order from... I've ordered from them and had my stuff in under two weeks, but I've also read a lot on NSF from folks who paid for stuff and have been waiting for 6-9 months or more, and can't even get a response...

Best bet if you want the DVD's-- get them on Amazon.com...

I'm waiting for the Skylab ones they said they were working on a couple years ago... those should be cool...

Later! OL JR

 

[K'Tesh]

... as for the super glue, Im no stranger to glueing my fingers together. It SUCKS! KTesh on the forums here has even told me it can burn you if dropped on a sensitive area. (He burned his stomach with it)

It's true, After ruining a couple of favorite shirts from CA glue drips, I started taking them off before I'd start gluing something that was likely to drip (fin's edges after papering). Then there was the time I got a couple of heavy drops of thin CA on my belly, and ignored it until it started to cure... I suddenly felt a burning sensation, and had to juggle the parts in my hand to not glue myself to them, and grab something to wipe it up. By the time I managed to grab a napkin, it was too late, I'd already received 2nd degree burns. I now have a pair of ruddy scars on my otherwise pale native Jeffersonian belly (very similar to sickly pale color of the native Oregonian bellys (movie producers could save a fortune on zombie makeup if they'd only hire native Oregonians for their ghastly pale completions )) to remind me of the incident, and a ruined favorite shirt that I wear when I'm messing with CA. Nowadays, I'm quick to wipe up drips from bare skin to prevent another reminder.

 

[Odo]

Yep, Saturn V's unleashed a veritable BLIZZARD of frost/snow/ice when those big F-1's fired up and started vibrating the thing...

Atlas produced some pretty good ice showers too... Have you ever seen the videos from Spacecraft Films called "The Mighty Saturns-- Saturn V and Saturn IB?" Those videos are amazing... pad videos of the liftoffs from various angles, tracking camera videos, heck even videos from inside the liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen tanks, even in orbit in zero gee... REALLY cool stuff... staging vids, the works.

I think I've seen that effect before... not sure which rocket it was, but it must have been in still air, because it was like a fog hanging around the rocket like a shroud, and it lifted off right through it and left it behind, until it got sucked into the low pressure area around the engines as it lifted off...

Really neat stuff...

Sorry for the mega post, but I figured that if you really wanted to improve your game when it comes to balsa cones and transitions, I'd give you the information to do it. At least, how *I* do it, and there's plenty of folks around here who'll tell you it works and works very well... There's other ways to do it, but honestly most of them seem much harder or use much more volatile, expensive, and difficult/stinky materials to work with (like sanding sealer/dope, epoxy, etc...)

Later! OL JR

Dont apologize for the mega post, Im glad theres someone out there willing to spend time on typing such huge posts just to help a newbie out

 

[Odo]

Im hopefully going to be launching her today

 

[NJRick]

+1 on this Odo! Luke is one of the true resources on this board!!
seriously, there is a lot of talent on this board..just look and ask and you will see people want to share with you. I really enjoy seeing the work others do here...just amazing rockets!

Dont apologize for the mega post, Im glad theres someone out there willing to spend time on typing such huge posts just to help a newbie out

 

[Odo]

I just got back from launching it on a b-6-4. It flew amazingly but 2 bad things happened.
First thing is, because of how tight I had to pack the chute inside of that puny area for it, it took a solid 5 seconds for it to open once it was out, which really gave me a scare as it plummeted to the ground with no chute.
Second thing that happened was somehow the engine clip got ripped off without leaving any damage, just.. It was somehow cleanly pulled out, Ive got no idea how thats even possible since the engine clip is inserted into the tube and then glued and taped there.
I was able to fix the engine clip, so no harm done there. (I reinforced the clip on the outside with super glue so hopefully it wont happen again)
It flew amazingly though. Like, very stable, and went pretty high on a B-6-4. Ive learned from its first launch that I need to not pack the chute so tightly, althought that might be difficult to do and still get it in that puny tube.
Over all it wasnt too bad of a launch, and like I said it flew great

 

[NJRick]

how about a B6-2 engine for the next flight? packing the Soyuz is tough...the tube makes it tight.

I just got back from launching it on a b-6-4. It flew amazingly but 2 bad things happened.
First thing is, because of how tight I had to pack the chute inside of that puny area for it, it took a solid 5 seconds for it to open once it was out, which really gave me a scare as it plummeted to the ground with no chute.
Second thing that happened was somehow the engine clip got ripped off without leaving any damage, just.. It was somehow cleanly pulled out, Ive got no idea how thats even possible since the engine clip is inserted into the tube and then glued and taped there.
I was able to fix the engine clip, so no harm done there. (I reinforced the clip on the outside with super glue so hopefully it wont happen again)
It flew amazingly though. Like, very stable, and went pretty high on a B-6-4. Ive learned from its first launch that I need to not pack the chute so tightly, althought that might be difficult to do and still get it in that puny tube.
Over all it wasnt too bad of a launch, and like I said it flew great

 

[samb]

As far as the parachute issue goes...

Plastic parachutes many times turn into para-wads. They are especially susceptible to temperature extremes (hot and cold). Dusting inside and out with baby powder before packing will fix this. Then you can roll it up as small as you need so it is not stuffed into the airframe.

 

[Odo]

how about a B6-2 engine for the next flight? packing the Soyuz is tough...the tube makes it tight.

Yeah I might. I gotta pick up some b-6-2s first.

 

[luke strawwalker]

I just got back from launching it on a b-6-4. It flew amazingly but 2 bad things happened.
First thing is, because of how tight I had to pack the chute inside of that puny area for it, it took a solid 5 seconds for it to open once it was out, which really gave me a scare as it plummeted to the ground with no chute.
Second thing that happened was somehow the engine clip got ripped off without leaving any damage, just.. It was somehow cleanly pulled out, Ive got no idea how thats even possible since the engine clip is inserted into the tube and then glued and taped there.
I was able to fix the engine clip, so no harm done there. (I reinforced the clip on the outside with super glue so hopefully it wont happen again)
It flew amazingly though. Like, very stable, and went pretty high on a B-6-4. Ive learned from its first launch that I need to not pack the chute so tightly, althought that might be difficult to do and still get it in that puny tube.
Over all it wasnt too bad of a launch, and like I said it flew great

Glad to hear it flew well.

The Estes motor ejection charges can be extremely strong. Perhaps that was the cause of your motor hook problems. Did the kit instruct you to make a "reinforcement band" for the motor hook area?? Glad you got it fixed, but don't count on CA to be a permanent repair... with any luck it will last a good while, but CA gets brittle over time, and CA glue is weakest in the shear plane (IOW 90 degrees to the surface being glued, either forward or backward).

How are you packing your parachutes?? I use the same method outlined in G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry." It works very well, but sometimes in small tubes things are a tight squeeze. First, you want to store the parachute OUTSIDE the rocket- DO NOT leave it "wadded up" or packed inside the rocket between launches... if you DO, be sure you UNPACK it and pop it open and leave it open awhile... plastic parachutes are particularly prone to developing a "memory"-- IOW, if it's folded up most of the time, or wadded up most of the time, it will want to STAY folded or wadded up when ejected in flight. Another good tip is to use talcum powder on your chutes... sprinkle both sides of the chute thoroughly-- heck I even use about a teaspoon of powder inside the chute as "tracking powder" so that when the chute pops open, it will dump the powder into a "cloud" of dust visible from the ground to help in spotting the rocket in the air. Talcum powder makes the plastic more slippery, eliminates static and any "gumminess" of the chute plastic or sticky dots or reinforcement circles... it makes the chute open much easier.

When I have to pack a chute into a small tube, though, instead of folding the point over like in the HBOMR (handbook of model rocketry) I grab the point at the center of the chute, pull it down to snug and even up the lines, gather all the 'billows' between the shroud lines to one side of the shroud lines to make the parachute into a "layered triangle" of material. Fold the billows over and then gently roll the parachute up into a cylinder. Gather the shroud lines and GENTLY and LOOSELY wrap them around the canopy... if things are ESPECIALLY tight, roll them up and insert them into the body tube after sliding the chute in.

That's the best advice I can give you. Good luck! OL JR

 

[Odo]

As far as the parachute issue goes...

Plastic parachutes many times turn into para-wads. They are especially susceptible to temperature extremes (hot and cold). Dusting inside and out with baby powder before packing will fix this. Then you can roll it up as small as you need so it is not stuffed into the airframe.

It was extremely hot outside today, 100+ farenhite so that might be what went down. Idk thought, I think it was just because of how tight the fit is, and the fact Ive actually got a slightly bigger chute on it then it came with. (I pretty much always use a bigger chute then they give you) its not much bigger, maybe 2 inches.

 

[Odo]

Glad to hear it flew well.

The Estes motor ejection charges can be extremely strong. Perhaps that was the cause of your motor hook problems. Did the kit instruct you to make a "reinforcement band" for the motor hook area?? Glad you got it fixed, but don't count on CA to be a permanent repair... with any luck it will last a good while, but CA gets brittle over time, and CA glue is weakest in the shear plane (IOW 90 degrees to the surface being glued, either forward or backward).

How are you packing your parachutes?? I use the same method outlined in G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry." It works very well, but sometimes in small tubes things are a tight squeeze. First, you want to store the parachute OUTSIDE the rocket- DO NOT leave it "wadded up" or packed inside the rocket between launches... if you DO, be sure you UNPACK it and pop it open and leave it open awhile... plastic parachutes are particularly prone to developing a "memory"-- IOW, if it's folded up most of the time, or wadded up most of the time, it will want to STAY folded or wadded up when ejected in flight. Another good tip is to use talcum powder on your chutes... sprinkle both sides of the chute thoroughly-- heck I even use about a teaspoon of powder inside the chute as "tracking powder" so that when the chute pops open, it will dump the powder into a "cloud" of dust visible from the ground to help in spotting the rocket in the air. Talcum powder makes the plastic more slippery, eliminates static and any "gumminess" of the chute plastic or sticky dots or reinforcement circles... it makes the chute open much easier.

When I have to pack a chute into a small tube, though, instead of folding the point over like in the HBOMR (handbook of model rocketry) I grab the point at the center of the chute, pull it down to snug and even up the lines, gather all the 'billows' between the shroud lines to one side of the shroud lines to make the parachute into a "layered triangle" of material. Fold the billows over and then gently roll the parachute up into a cylinder. Gather the shroud lines and GENTLY and LOOSELY wrap them around the canopy... if things are ESPECIALLY tight, roll them up and insert them into the body tube after sliding the chute in.

That's the best advice I can give you. Good luck! OL JR

There WAS a reinforcement band on the rockets clip. Thats why Im confused how it just came out so cleanly, nothing was torn...
There isnt anything else I can do but put a lot of super glue on it. So far that holds it very sturdy but :/

 

[samb]

Well, ideally, you want that recovery device to more or less fall out of the airframe, maybe with a shake or two. I might try the stock chute next time. What type of surface is your recovery area ?

 

[Odo]

Well, ideally, you want that recovery device to more or less fall out of the airframe, maybe with a shake or two. I might try the stock chute next time. What type of surface is your recovery area ?

What do you mean what type of surface? Do you mean what the chute is made of? If so its one of Dr Zooch's trashbag chutes.

 

[NJRick]

Odo....you may want to try the stock chute on the Zooch R-7's....that extra 2 inches in a tube that is tight to begin with makes a big difference.

What do you mean what type of surface? Do you mean what the chute is made of? If so its one of Dr Zooch's trashbag chutes.

 

[Odo]

Odo....you may want to try the stock chute on the Zooch R-7's....that extra 2 inches in a tube that is tight to begin with makes a big difference.

THe stock chute I got didnt work... Im not sure why but it doesnt open. But then again I havee 2 of the kits for a reason, Spare parts! Ill try the second one later.

 

[samb]

What do you mean what type of surface? Do you mean what the chute is made of? If so its one of Dr Zooch's trashbag chutes.

What I meant was how hard is ground you're landing on ? Did you need a slower recovery 'cause you're on a dry lake or something ? Anyway, cramming and jamming a (relatively) big chute into a (relatively) small tube might not be the way to go.

 

[Odo]

What I meant was how hard is ground you're landing on ? Did you need a slower recovery 'cause you're on a dry lake or something ? Anyway, cramming and jamming a (relatively) big chute into a (relatively) small tube might not be the way to go.

Its on short grass so its not super hard but not very soft.
Im currently threading the spare chute and Im going to test its fit

 

[samb]

Its on short grass so its not super hard but not very soft.
Im currently threading the spare chute and Im going to test its fit

Ok. Try the stock chute, powder, folding that guy up to get it to slide into airframe.

 

[Odo]

Ok. Try the stock chute, powder, folding that guy up to get it to slide into airframe.

just got the spare shock chute from my second kit which has been cannibalized for spare parts..
It fits muuuuch better. I also did a static firing of the new engine clip and nothing went wrong, so I think Ive solved most of the functionality problems..
I was wondering if I used Elmers wood filler on the already painted white balsa parts, would it work? I could easily just paint over the wood filler again. Obviously Id have to remove the little decals before doing that, but they are not hard to put on, and Ive still got a sheet of them, so if taking them off would mean having plastic looking nose cone thatd be worth it to me!
If anyone can answer that soon thanks

 

[luke strawwalker]

There WAS a reinforcement band on the rockets clip. Thats why Im confused how it just came out so cleanly, nothing was torn...
There isnt anything else I can do but put a lot of super glue on it. So far that holds it very sturdy but :/

I hear ya... sometimes there's just not a *good* solution-- sometimes you only have one solution and you have to take your chances...

I dunno... that's a funny failure mode... Not sure why it happened either... I was picturing the hook TORN OUT of the tube and damage to the tube. Maybe ask Wes and see what he says...

Wes does TONS of flight and build testing on the rockets he develops into kits before he ever kits them, so if there's a failure mode, odds are he has probably seen it at some point (test to destruction type thing).

Later! OL JR

 

[luke strawwalker]

just got the spare shock chute from my second kit which has been cannibalized for spare parts..
It fits muuuuch better. I also did a static firing of the new engine clip and nothing went wrong, so I think Ive solved most of the functionality problems..
I was wondering if I used Elmers wood filler on the already painted white balsa parts, would it work? I could easily just paint over the wood filler again. Obviously Id have to remove the little decals before doing that, but they are not hard to put on, and Ive still got a sheet of them, so if taking them off would mean having plastic looking nose cone thatd be worth it to me!
If anyone can answer that soon thanks

Hmmm... I don't think I'd try it, not on a completed kit...

It might well look worse afterwards than it does now... if you're that worried about it, talk to Wes about a new nosecone and balsa parts...

Later! OL JR

 

[Odo]

Hmmm... I don't think I'd try it, not on a completed kit...

It might well look worse afterwards than it does now... if you're that worried about it, talk to Wes about a new nosecone and balsa parts...

Later! OL JR

Ive got a whole spare kit, I can use those pieces, but Id have to redo all of the second stage since its all glued together... What exactly would happen if I used wood filler on already painted balsa?

 

[luke strawwalker]

Ive got a whole spare kit, I can use those pieces, but Id have to redo all of the second stage since its all glued together... What exactly would happen if I used wood filler on already painted balsa?

I've never done it, so if you want to experiment, go for it... report back here... You can teach all of us a few things...

If you're determined, I'd recommend at least sanding the paint off the parts you want to fill with 220 grit-- well, not like you have to sand ALL the paint off, just enough to make sure that the filler will actually bond to the balsa... rough it up really good and then go for it... No guarantees though...

Later! OL JR

 

[Odo]

Im going to test it on a spare balsa board.
Going to paint it white, let it dry, and then try the filler on it. Im definitely not doing it on my Soyuz without any knowledge as to what would happen.

 

[kruland]

Im going to test it on a spare balsa board.
Going to paint it white, let it dry, and then try the filler on it. Im definitely not doing it on my Soyuz without any knowledge as to what would happen.

You got it backwards. Filler, sand, prime, sand, paint. I don't expect the filler to stick well to paint.